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Quote:
Originally Posted by dortie
You just dont accept that the IRA are responsible for anything do you?
What about the Kingsmill massacre? Was that justified? Was the separating of Protestant and Catholic workmates by the IRA and just shooting the Protestant workers dead some grand republican victory that I am missing?
Have to agree with you. As far as I'm concerned the IRA in the post-1969 phase of its history ceased to exist around 1996/97 when the second ceasefire came into place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor74
Since then, the organisation has existed in name more than ouvert activity. However, some of its members have since then realised that access to guns, local kudos, and the apparent backing of a large private army opens all sorts of doors and opportunities within the modern criminal world and allows you to throw a bit of weight around if you want. Hence the branching into knocked-off fags, smuggled fuel, drugs, pirated DVD's etc, and an increase in the use of 'punishment attacks' purely as a means of score settling for individuals. There is no doubt that certain senior IRA members are involved in these types of activity, and that the rest of the organisation is aware and tolerates it, regardless of any dismissals stated by Sinn Fein. That's not what the struggle for Irish freedom is or should ever be about. That's straight-forward mafia-style gangsterism.
The problem as I see it is that the balance of power in the relationship between the 2 strands of Republicanism (the Provos and SF) has recently shifted back in favour of the IRA. Up until recently, SF were able to keep the provos in check by-and-large, as pursuit of the 'democratic' aims that they'd all signed-up to was the key Republican objective. However - since SF became the biggest nationalist party, rather than cement the party's ascendency within the Republican relationship it's instead lead the IRA to realise that they can pretty much get away with anything they want these days, as no-one can exclude Sinn Fein from the peace process. And as there's no 'war' any more, the type of things some of the IRA's membership are getting away with are nothing short of gangsterism.
I reckon that the IRA is slowly morphing into a number of underworld criminal gangs that will carve-up certain lines of business/parts of the country between them and clean-up within organised crime activities. Whilst Jamaican yardies, Kosovan/Serbian/Kurdish/Albanian etc gangs rule the underworld in England because they have access to hardware and aren't afraid to use it, there's no criminal organisation in Western Europe that could seriously hope to mount a turf battle against the IRA. It would be suicide. I can therefore see The Provos morphing into self-serving gangs who exploit this fact for personal gain (using chunks of the current IRA arsenal that they've got squirrelled away).
Therefore - how long is it going to be before the former-IRA is involved in lucrative but despicable trades like people smuggling (modern-day slavery).
Not only is the war over, but so to is the modern-day IRA. Patrick Pearse and Michael Colins must be turning in their graves.....
Not the biggest fan of violence in any form but there seems to be more pressure on the Ra than the other criminal/political factions UDA etc. Even before that robbery it was clear that Paisley et al had no intention of agreeing anything with Sinn Fein. They don't seem to accept that both sides have to give something for this thing to work.
Not sure which way it's going now with the latest staement from P O'Neill. Hopefully not back to the way it was!
This sort of thing usually does happen once most conflicts begin to end. For example when the Soviet Afghan War ended in 89 the Mujahideen began to branch out in drug peddling, smuggling etc so much so that in 1990-1992 you had a situation where the anti Soviet guerillas split up and launched turf wars against each other instead of trying to topple the DRA (Soviet's Puppet Regieme). Ironically many of the Soviet veterans of that war Afghansti began to slip into occupations within the criminal fraternity, initially working as bouncers, then operating protection rackets. Much of the modern Russian Mafia is made up of Afghansti (Galeotti estimates around 3/4rs of the Russian Mafia in 1994 had seen active service in Afghanistan), this also helped the Russian Mafia develop links with the Army/KGB (many Mafiosi had colleagues still in the Army etc), some alledge that this link (between Russian Organised Crime and the FSB/OMON (new KGB)) is still very active, however I tend to agree with the suggestion that the link dissappeared around mid 1995. Although the elimination of Yanderbiyev (which has all the hallmarks of a Russian Mafia Job) suggests the Russians will go down that path if its a matter of major national security, and if I was Zakayev, or his English Actress benefactor, I dont think I would be getting too much sleep in in Chiswick, or where ever it is they live.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
The Minge column in the magazine In Dublin has proposed the following solution to the Northern problem:-
" All the Rangers fans in the six counties should house swap with all the Celtic fans in Scotland thus reversing the plantation of Ulster." Sounds ridiculous...initially but if nothing else works might be worthy of some slight consideration. :D
At least they claimed responsibility when they made mistakes unlike the Brits who murdered countless children that nobody seems to remember or highlight, at least 12 in my home town alone. Plastic bullets to the head etc. Not one seen Justice for their acts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor74
What is their imperative to retain their guns ? Look back to 1969 and the Catholics been run out of their homes by loyalists, it wont ever happen again. I for one hope the IRA dont hand over ONE more weapon.
Of course I do, the IRA claimed responsibility when they did carry out activities.Quote:
Originally Posted by eoinh
Kingsmill ??? Is this another isolated instance in the troubles you are highlighting ??
What about Loughgal, What about Eamon Bradley in Derry shot in the head as he tried to crawl away, What about Greysteel, What about Pat Finucane, What about Rosemary Nelson, What about Mr Devenney in Derry, What about .....
Fr. Noel Fitzpatrick 40 years, a Catholic priest in Ballymurphy, west Belfast, he was shot dead by British soldiers firing from concealed positions overlooking Ballymurphy, on 9 July 1972. Fr. Fitzpatrick was praying over a wounded man when he was shot. Also killed in the Ballymurphy area that day by British army snipers were, Patrick Butler (39), Margaret Gargan (13), John Dougal (16) and David McCafferty (14).
William Fleming 19 years, Derry City, an IRA activist, he was shot dead by undercover British soldiers at Gransha Hospital, Derry, on 6 December 1984. Another IRA activist, Daniel Doherty (23) was shot dead in the same incident.
James (Jim) Gallagher 20 years, Derry City, shot dead sitting in a bus by a British soldier as it passed an Army barrack in Derry on 17 May 1976. The soldier was in an observation post and shot Mr Gallagher as he sat upstairs at the back of the bus.
Hugh Gilmore 17 years, Derry City, shot dead by British soldiers at an anti-internment march in Derry on 30 January 1972. In total fourteen people, including Mr Doherty were killed or fatally wounded that day, known later as Bloody Sunday. The others killed were; Gerard Donaghy (17), Kevin McElhinney (17), Bernard McGuigan (41), John Duddy (17), William Nash (19), Michael McDaid (20), John Young (17), Michael Kelly (17), James Wray (22), Patrick Doherty (31), Gerald McKinney (35), William McKinney (26) and John Johnston (59).
Do you want me to continue ????
Your right there, they wouldnt have handed over weapons.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
Guns have been decommisioned in E. Timor, Vietnam and NicaraguaQuote:
Originally Posted by davros
Guns were not decommisioned in Afganistan, Iraq, Angola, The Congo, Rwanda
Funnily enough the countries most at peace are E. Timor, Vietnam and Nicaragua.
No they dontQuote:
Originally Posted by Dortie
In kingsmill for instance the group that claimed responsibility was the South Armagh Republican Action Force. This cover name was used on other occassions by the IRA such as at the Tullyvallen massacre.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
Yes, and neither would they have involved themselves in drugs.Quote:
Originally Posted by dortie
Quote:
Originally Posted by eoinh
And who told you that British tabloids ? Or the Irish Independant ?
There was and is many armed groups in the North.
The only Involvement the IRA had with drugs where I come from was shooting dealers.Quote:
Originally Posted by lopez
Only shoot dealers who don't pay the PIRA protection money!Quote:
Originally Posted by dortie
Quote:
Originally Posted by dortie
Ironic as it may seem but the PIRA have probably killed/injured more Irish men , women and children than the British army have!!
Nah can't scan...Quote:
Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo
Went something along the lines of... "The IRA couldn't have done the Northern Bank robbery as they too busy with knee capping, beatings etc..."
;)