End of the Ferguson Era

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Originally Posted by Macy

To say he has lost the transfer plot is to ignore the likes of Ronaldo and Beanz who are quality players who he saw something that others didn't....

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I'm sorry, but Ronaldo is sh*t. He's useless. He's full of tricks and shapes, but how many times does he actually do something productive with the ball? His crossing is worse than El Hadji Dioufs, which is some achievement. His crosses rarely get past the first defender, and rarely find their target. His team mates find it impossible to predict what he is going to do with the ball, thus there is poor understanding between them. As average as David Beckham is, he was a hell lot more productive than the imposter will ever be. Van Horseface must be crying into his oates every morning!

Running at high speed while doing 10 step overs is not my idead of 'class'. Have you ever noticed that he actually rarely gets by a defender with the step-overs? They're completely unnecessary most of the time. Completely over-rated. The real Ronaldo is Brazilian, plays for Madrid and actually makes a difference when in the last third of the pitch. And before anyone says 'He's only 19, he's going to be class', thats a load of crap. Wingers are at their best in the early stages of their career. Robben is only 20, now he's class. Duff is class. Shaun W Phillips is class. Ronaldo? He'll make a great actor one day.... :rolleyes:

Some win for Utd tonight. Not a shimmy in sight from Ronaldo :eek: Maybe he's saving it all for Lansdowne! Some goal for John O'Shea thats 2 smashing strikes in a week now. Midfield from now on?

I still think Ronaldo is over rated and Utd are finished BTW :D

2-4 vs arsenal

yes it is definitly the end of ferguson :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by thecorner

2-4 vs arsenal

yes it is definitly the end of ferguson :rolleyes:

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To paraphrase a well-known saying, one game does not a season make.

It's hard to see how either ManUre or Arsenal will keep pace with Chelsea's bottomless pit of money in the next few years. By the time they recover, old whiskey chops will have gone. Unless, that is, he extends his contract for evermore... :D

:D PP

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Originally Posted by thecorner

2-4 vs arsenal

yes it is definitly the end of ferguson :rolleyes:

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Probably is, theyve not a hope of catching Chelsea (form wise theyre worse than last year theyve not been able to put away the likes of Spurs, City and Everton at home whereas in their prime they'd have done that. When they play a quality well organised team in Europe they'll come unstuck (as they have for the past 5 years).

Fair play to Manchester, they are on an amazing run at the moment. They are really putting it up to the Chelsea team.

I saw the highlights and Manchester were very good against Arsenal and on that form they will give Chelsea a few scares.

Paddy Power might have a few sleepless nights.

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

Van Horseface must be crying into his oates every morning!

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ill nominate that line alone for post of the month! :D

Fair play to man Utd last night. They really showed who wanted it more. Once they equalised, Arsenal just collapsed completely.

That said, I reckon any team who depend on Sol Campbell at the back, and have title aspirations, are sadly misguided. he was useless last night. As was Vieira. Keane must have really rattled him in the tuneel, as Ive never seen him give so much ball away.

Ryan Giggs? I can never understand the criticism he gets from people. The guy is a top top class player, and will terrorize defences for another few seasons yet.

Of course Sky were saying last night that the winners "have the right to challenge for the title, the losers' season is over". Excuse me if im wrong, but there is still only 1 point between Utd and Arsenal, and both are a country mile behind Chelsea. 2nd place is still up for grabs between the two of them, last night didnt make too big a difference.

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Originally Posted by Gary

That said, I reckon any team who depend on Sol Campbell at the back, and have title aspirations, are sadly misguided.

Of course Sky were saying last night that the winners "have the right to challenge for the title, the losers' season is over". Excuse me if im wrong, but there is still only 1 point between Utd and Arsenal, and both are a country mile behind Chelsea. 2nd place is still up for grabs between the two of them, last night didnt make too big a difference.

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don't agree that the losers season is over as SKY were suggesting last night. I do believe UTD are in a healthier position to challenge now though on the back of the lift the result will give them. However there are close to 40 points left to play for and with 2 between UTD and ARSENAL either are far from guaranteed 2nd place on the basis of last night.

Will disagree with you on Sol. The Team depended on Sol last year and finished with the best defensive record in the league on the way to an unbeaten league campaign. Think it's very harsh to suggest they are misguided to think they can win with Sol Campbell having him being a major part in 2 league championships and 2 fa cups in 3 years with the club! The facts don't back that up. However, he did have a particulary poor game last night.

Each teams run ins are:-

Chelsea
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Blackburn Rovers Away
Manchester City Home
Everton Away
West Brom Home*
Norwich City Away
Crystal Palace Home
Southampton Away
Birmingham City Home
Manchester United Away
Arsenal Home
Fulham Home
Bolton Wanderers Away
Charlton Athletic Home
Newcastle United Away

* (Fixture clash/League Cup)

Manchester United
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Birmingham Home
Man City Away
Portsmouth Home
C. Palace Away
Fulham Home
Blackburn Home
Norwich Away
Chelsea Home
Everton Away
Newcastle Home
Charlton Away
West Brom Home
S'hampton Away

Arsenal FC
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Aston Villa Away
C. Palace Home
Southampton Away
Portsmouth Home
Blackburn Away
Norwich Home
Boro Away
Chelsea Away
Spurs Home
WBA Away
Liverpool Home
Birmingham Away

The league is long since over. Chelsea wrapped it up weeks ago. They had to, after spending all that money. They'll win it by about 15-20 points.

Just like to remind Trevor Welch, who joyously declared on TV3 yesterday that "the gap at the top (of the league) is down to 8".

Eh, no it isn't mate. It's up to 11 now, and growing. :)

I still think that chelsea will bottle it... After a performance like uniteds the other night, totally destroying a team unbeaten at home since may 2003, you cant write them off. Remember chelsea only got a 2-2 draw at highbury..... And i know the gap is 11 points but united have been there before with bigger gaps and won it. Chelsea haven't expierienced this pressure ever and i firmly believe that they will sink.... Back united at 10/1 now. It's worth a flutter... Remember chelsea failed to beat Man City earlier in the season and might falter again, and with Robben out now for a couple of weeks there fluency might vanish..... United to win the title by 4 points and to go unbeaten until the end of the season. Everybody is talking about chelsea winning everything, but again i believe United can win the F.A. Cup, Premiership and the way they are performing in Europe the Champions league aswell. They have done it before........ ;) :D

I think Chelsea will win it at Old Trafford.

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Originally Posted by tarzan1

I still think that chelsea will bottle it... Chelsea haven't expierienced this pressure ever and i firmly believe that they will sink.

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They haven't experienced this pressure ever??? Who finished 2nd last season? Chelsea, ahead of United. Furthermore, several of their foreign players have won league titles with their previous clubs before, so they know what it takes to win league championships. And their coach has only won leagues, cups, and the European Cup with Porto!! See, plenty of experience there.

Before midweek, the gap was 10 points, now it's 11, and 11 points is a daunting gap to chase. You simply don't give Mourinho a 11-point lead, and recover. With their limitless budget, I expect Chelsea to turn the Premiership into a one-team title race for the next few seasons. Everyone else will have to try to win the cups instead.

i don't really see chelsea dominating football for an extended period. Aside from John Terry I can't really percieve any one player having the kind of staying power to remain at Chelsea and challenge year after year. Roy Keane, Irwin, Giggs et all strived for that next title in a Manchester shirt well after what would be a saturation point for most of the current Chelsea team.

What i mean is that Chelsea may well win the league this year and probably next but I would bet any money that the Carvalho's, the Drogba's and I'd even say Lampard will move on to sample title challenges in other leagues simply because they'll feel they've acheived all they wanted in a Chelsea shirt. They don't live Chelsea the way Terry does, or the way Keane does at united.

I forseee a huge turnover of players at chelsea over the coming years, regardless of the level of success.

I see on the news today Malcolm Glazer has put in another bid for the largest corporate name in football, Manchester United PLC. The football club's CEO, Mr David Gill says he has received "definitive proposals" from Glazer. Speculation that the club will be sold has seen shares rise by 10.3p (from Friday to today), and it is thought that the American multi-billionaire will offer 300p per share (current value is 279p).

Personally I see Glazer getting the club this time, business tycoons rarely fail to get what they want especially if they are as determined as Glazer. Also it hinges on the reaction of Irish Businessmen, J. Magnier and J.P. McManus who own around 30% of the club. They recently experienced the wrath of fans, angry at the pair's attempts to investigate team coach, Alex Ferguson's role in transfers. Consequently one would imagine that if offered enough money they would sell up. Once Glazer's on board I think Ferguson will walk away (he's already made his objections to Glazer clear via his support of fans groups etc).

But from M&M's point of view why sell now when you know individual broadcast rights are coming and the shares will be worth a lot more..Why do you reckon Glazer's interested now?. He doesn't have enough money to go much higher, he's already borrowing huge amounts to try and fund this deal. As a United fan, it'd be a terrible day if the 'evil gnome' as United fans are calling him got his hands on the club

All depends on the current board. They have to have grounds to not recommend the takeover - there's still a large amount of debt tied to the deal, just done a different way. Glazer's banks say they won't back a hostile bid, so it's down to the board.

If the tax dodgers were out for revenge they would've sold at the last bid - as Longfordian says, Glazer's punting on the next TV deal, do people think that McManus and Magnier got all their money by not being bright enough to see the long term view? At the last bid time, the perception was that they'd be looking for 310p a share, which Glazer still isn't getting near (and hasn't the money to offer).

We'll wait and see I suppose. Obviously the ideal would be for the fans to own enough to block a bid (Thanks to fartin that was never going to happen), but the uncertainty is no different from a team being the plaything of one person who could get bored any time, or a team risking their financial secruity on a new ground....

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Originally Posted by Longfordian

But from M&M's point of view why sell now when you know individual broadcast rights are coming and the shares will be worth a lot more..Why do you reckon Glazer's interested now?. He doesn't have enough money to go much higher, he's already borrowing huge amounts to try and fund this deal. As a United fan, it'd be a terrible day if the 'evil gnome' as United fans are calling him got his hands on the club

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Well I wouldn’t bet against him getting the club. He's been bidding for them for over a year now, each time he's rejected he comes back with an even bigger offer. The PLC (ie whole business rather than team) has produced huge profits (for a sports team) year on year, so is a very attractive investment proposition. He has already got the huge bank JP Morgan involved in the bid, so imo its likely he'll be able to get other investors on board if push comes to shove he can offer them a permanent percentage instead of getting a more direct loan for the take over. I think the two from Cubic Expression are just holding out for the right price. They’ve already seen that they’ve difficulty running the PLC the way they want (e.g. Glazer voting out members of the board, and to a lesser extent protests at race tracks after the investigation over Ferguson) so may they well sell up and invest in something else. This wouldnt be a problem fro Glazer as he would have more concrete control over the board and as most of his other investments are in the USA, similar fan protests would have little impact on him.

I don’t think he's just after the individual broadcasting rights (if that scenario does arrive) but more concerned about getting his hands on the vast global brand. Individual broadcasting is not yet a certainly, much depends on either the Premier League or UEFA. On the other hand the global brand is already established. Manchester United merchandise sells very well, especially in the far east which contains many of the worlds fastest growing economies (eg India, China etc). With the clubs diversification into non-football products (eg "MU Finance" - essentially a loan/credit company with no relation to football at all), its a very attractive proposition to any investor. Simply put, from an investor's point of view a lot of the PLC's "products" sell very well in countries with rapidly growing economies (irrespective of the team’s results it would seem) - this means if the company can churning out merchandise it will continue to sell more units. So if Glazer takes over he could make even more profit by concentrating on the merchandise sales side of the business instead of team strengthening.

That'll count for naught when the hitman comes round ;) ..Seriously though if he did get his hands on the club there would be uproar amongst almost all sections of the United support, feelings are running high with talk of (Rovers style ;) ) boycotts of games and picketing, the fans could make life miserable for whichever of his representatives he puts in charge, probably his son.

It would be up there with the most unpopular takeovers ever, suicidal almost for any of the current board to accept the offer and if he chose not to spend on the team, where does the success come from, success on the pitch=money off the pitch. If you alienate the hardcore, the prawn sandwich brigade aren't a long term bunch. If success dries up they're off to Chelsea or Arsenal.