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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Smith
To suggest the IRA went out to intentionally kill members of the free state police is nonsense, yeah sure they wanted all the bad publicity it would give the republican movement - dont be silly.
Im not sure what other Northerners on here think but I dont see this particular killing any different to the rest through the years, they are all a result of the conflict situation. One families grief is the same as anothers.
I know it wasnt the Provos but why then did the bombing of Omagh take place?
That really didnt cover the republican movement in glory either.
Far too level-headed and sensible for the majority on here. Most of them are barely-disguised partitionists who don't give two hoots about peace on this island and the quality of life for Dortie and the rest of the North's people. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by dortie
KOH
Quote:
Originally Posted by eoinh
Again, the media would have you believe it was deliberate.
Whats the point in highlighting Individual Incidents, Ive said it before I dont see any one Incident as different, Bloody Sunday was as Bad as Omagh and that was carried out by 'law abiding' State forces of England.
Fair point but if you follow their position to its conclusion that's where you end up....killing RUC officers good, killing Guards bad. The people of the north have had to swallow the release of some total scumbags in the name of the peace process. The same has to apply down here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor74
KOH
Small point but its been called the Republic of Ireland sinc elong before yopu were born.Quote:
Originally Posted by dortie
Aye, regardless what you think of the merits of the "armed struggle".Quote:
Originally Posted by WeAreRovers
How exactly do you shoot two unarmed men seated in a car at point-blank range and not mean it?Quote:
Originally Posted by dortie
If the discipline in the IRA is as tight as you are suggesting what were they doing on an 'unsanctioned operation'?
Why did they make no attempt ot take the money?
Did they really expect there would be no escort?
Do you really think that there was no friction between the gardai in the area and the IRA?
To suggest that this was a well planned armed robbery that went tragically wrong is silly.
Never said that, I know the gardai are seen as worse than the RUC at times by Republicans, what I am saying is that if members of the IRA wanted to kill members of the gardai intentionally they could have done it in much easier surroundings. Dont kid yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Smith
This is going way off track, my point again is all the killings in the conflict situation are no different to each other. No one Incident is any 'worse' than the other.
Strange as it may seem I agree with you here. If you start telling (or suggesting to) people that their pain and suffering is any less real, intense or important than someone else's then there is no chance of any progress.Quote:
Originally Posted by dortie
Anyway, sorry for going so off-topic.
there is not an irishman here that are partitionists halfwit this thread is not about the quality of life of people up in ulsterQuote:
Originally Posted by WeAreRovers
this about 4 scumbags who were freelancing to line their own pockets this is a fact and muredered 2 gardai in the process.
dortie sinn fein have been seen as your neccesary protectors up with ye for the last 30 yrs with due reason i accept that they were needed to a certain extent.
but the issue people have down here is that sinn/fein ira are commiting criminal activitys down here and getting away with it so they can be kept in the peace proccess this is unnaceptable to the 80% of people according to the media down here.
gerry adams is always talking about lisenting to the people and he wants a democratic ireland of equals well the majority of people dont what these criminal murders realeased so why is he not lisenting to us .
[QUOTE=exile]there is not an irishman here that are partitionists halfwit this thread is not about the quality of life of people up in ulster
[QUOTE]
A man with your spelling and writing skills would be well served by not calling other people halfwits. :rolleyes:
KOH
[QUOTE=WeAreRovers][QUOTE=exile]there is not an irishman here that are partitionists halfwit this thread is not about the quality of life of people up in ulster
your right my spelling is crap but a least im not blinded by the lies of scum fein but least i can distinguish between whats moraly right and what are a bunch of murderers no better than the highjackers of 9/11 who think its ok to flout our lawsQuote:
A man with your spelling and writing skills would be well served by not calling other people halfwits. :rolleyes:
KOH
if it bombs and murders like a terrorist then it is a terrorist so they should be dealt with accordingly and their supporters are just as guilty
Personally, I can't see it happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by eoinh
Paisley's request is neither reasonable nor fair.
He just wants to rub the Shinners noses, and by extension, a large section of the population, in the dirt.
Is he saying that De Chastelain is a liar, and his word can't be trusted?
I would be the first to decry the terrible things the IRA has done, but somehow presenting Paisley as a "democrat" who has the high moral ground almost sickens me as much as any IRA killing. That man and his cohort have been the most malignant force on the island for 50 years. They are utterly sectarian, totally bigoted and spread nothing but hate, fear and ignorance. What about Paisley's armed groups?
What about his organised hate campaigns against Catholics?
His pogroms?
Lets be honest here Eoin, this "deal", if it ever comes to pass, is between an organisation who directly murdered innocent people in the name of freedom and a "movement" who have poisoned and warped the minds of people so badly that they went out and murdered innocent people in the name of "defending" an apartheid, sectarian statelet.
Its a sorry pass that we have to look to the likes of these for peace....:mad:
Quote:
Originally Posted by patsh
I agree totally, Patsh. But, if it means that Paisley signs up to a deal then showing him some photographs is worth it.
It is noticable that nobody is suggesting that these photographs be shown to the public. I suppose the little man doesnt count.
But is it really?Quote:
Originally Posted by eoinh
So you can show him some photos of an amount of guns, explosives etc being destroyed. But how does anyone know if this is all they have?
The whole idea of this is to trust the other side, some bit at least.
He wants a photgraph to use as propoganda and nothing else.
It can be filmed, video or anything else you want. All that proves is that a certain amount of weapons are being destroyed, its purely a symbolic thing, and as we know, symbols can be used and abused with terrible results up North.
It's my understanding that he wants them published.Quote:
Originally Posted by eoinh
Exactly, nobody knows for sure exactly how many weapons anyone has anyway. Some trust and risks have to be taken. Paisley just wants to humiliate republicans, him and his follwers still and always will see nationalist/republicans as below them. This decommisioning issue shouldnt even be an issue, as General De Chastelean, under the terms of the GFA was the man responsible with the decomissioning body to deal with this issue. They were satisfied with the 3 acts carried out by the IRA, but Paisley and even Trimble before him have decided they wanted it done theyre way, which completely undermines the GFA. It just deflects away from issues such as policing, demilitirisation and All Ireland bodies, and general equality for everyone, which have not been fully dealt with, these are the very reasons that the majority of republicans/nationalist and people in 26 counties voted for this agreement, and the brits have allowed the bigots of unionism use decommisioning as a way to delay and water down the GFA. Its a shame thats happened, but not surprising.
Listening to Danny Morrison and others on the radio this morning it seems certain that there will be no deal done. The IRA are not going to agree to publishing any photos and the issue of releasing Garda McCabe's murderers will be parked. Whatever the rights and wrongs on either side I think people need to realise that the GFA is for all intents and purposes dead in the water. The DUP are not going to abide by it and since they are the biggest Unionist party I can't see what is achieved by continualy referring to it as if it still gospel. A deal is going to have to be done between the DUP and SInn Fein on terms acceptable to both parties. I have no idea when that will be but I suspect it won't be before Paisley is replaced as head of the DUP. What is also clear is that the governments have no plan B. They are not going to force through something over the heads of the two parties.
I personally don't think all the blame for this can be but on the DUP/Paisley, although it certainly suits Sinn Fein to protray it as such.
We already had the Good Friday Agreement which afaik the IRA were supposed to put an end to use of all their weapons. Why has this not happened? If committed to democratic means why need a store of weapons even if they old & of little use?
SF/IRA are the masters at media spin & now they so committed to destroying the weapons they are afraid of Paisley using the pics of them as propaganda. Give me a break! They can really only be using that as a bargaining trick. Heard yesterday that the killers only have 2 years left on sentence which makes their release even more ludicrous.
btw SF have 12-15% of the vote in whole island so have no right to dictate to anyone.
Anyone know if latest deal will mean the IRA will stop extorsion, smuggling, kneee caping, survellience on politicians or will there be a another final final deal for that?
IMO the IRA haven't had a political purpose for amny a year now & are just a bunch of organised criminals.