Referee a Scandal

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I presume after getting only 50% of the above right (the first part) - the same as the ref in the game - that you're going to write yourself off as being as poorly informed about refereeing as you're making the ref out to be? Or that you'll remember your own errors when next you (partly at least) wrongly criticise a ref?

And after all the whingeing about refs, and too many Dublin refs, and all sorts, nobody has actually said anything about doing something practical and taking a course to become a ref. Yes, they're far from perfect (and bear in mind that I've seen First Division refs! :eek: ;) ), but what's whining about it going to do?

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You are being far too kind to the referree. Re-read my post. I deliberately steered away from the suggestion that the referree made a mistake. My belief is that nobody can be that bad consistently. Another explanation suggests itself: that there is something rotten in the state of Denmark, so to speak.
I heard the TV pictures show that Divine made contact with the player inside the penalty area. I have not seen the TV pictures of the game and I presume that you have, and / or you were at the game and decided to post this 4 days later. I posted within an hour of the final whistle. To me, and to the 7 or 8 people immediately around me, it appeared that it was outside the box. Probably something to do with how far outside the box the player landed.
So we were wrong. Now, what is your point exactly? If a person posting here makes mistakes, does that mean there is no validity generally in complaining about the standard of referreeing? What are we supposed to do, lie down and accept it while the evidence mounts up that something suspicious is going on?
By the way, if you bother to check, you will find that I and many others have used these forums to propose ways of improving the standards in Irish referreeing. Maybe after another 4 days you will come back and acknowledge this fact. ;)

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Originally Posted by steveh

Was sitting in the vicinity of Pat Kelly, an assessor for EL referees and heard him say that there was no way it was a penalty. Took up the point with him, then he said that we should never have gotten pen against derry few wks previous, so it all balanced out. What an idiot!!!

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I think you're the idiot, it was no penalty against Bohz :rolleyes:

Well, made my four-day deadline! ;)

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Originally Posted by Fair_play_boy

You are being far too kind to the referee.

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Not really. It was never a penalty, and I agree with you fully on that.

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Originally Posted by Fair_play_boy

I deliberately steered away from the suggestion that the referee made a mistake....Another explanation suggests itself: that there is something rotten in the state of Denmark, so to speak.

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You shouldn't have. He did make a mistake. You called him a scandal in the thread title which, if it doesn't imply he made a mistake, implies he deliberately gave the decision against you. I've refereed games involving people I know - indeed, my own team - and had no problems either being impartial or being seen to be impartial. Any errors I made were taken as mistakes. As someone who has refereed before, therefore, I take exception to people casually and continuously accusing referees of being biased. They're not. End of story.

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Originally Posted by Fair_play_boy

My belief is that nobody can be that bad consistently.

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Have a year in the First Division and see if you still say that! ;)

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Originally Posted by Fair_play_boy

I heard the TV pictures show that Divine made contact with the player inside the penalty area. I have not seen the TV pictures of the game and I presume that you have, and / or you were at the game and decided to post this 4 days later. I posted within an hour of the final whistle. To me, and to the 7 or 8 people immediately around me, it appeared that it was outside the box. Probably something to do with how far outside the box the player landed.

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This is the crux of my point. OK, the ref was nearer to it than you. But how can people continuously excuse themselves for getting decisions wrong and yet not let referees off once? Are they supposed to be perfect? They have the same split second time to react as you did, and yet you were both 50% wrong. Yet the ref will get the abuse and you'll ignore your error.

These arguments are always one-sided as well - people always whinge about the wrong decisions they perceive the referee as making and yet the ref has no access to a comeback to respons to his criticism. This bit obviously isn't aimed at you, but if you have a situation like that, pretty soon people are going to believe all sorts of things about the ref due to a lack of balance in the arguments, which leads to what we have now, where a ref will be blamed for anything, probably even if he's proved right!

Incidentally, as my avatar will show, I wasn't at the game, and yes, I only saw it on the Monday.

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Originally Posted by Fair_play_boy

So we were wrong. Now, what is your point exactly?

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Referees make mistakes. They are not biased. It annoys me when people launch into a full-scale attack of referees calling them biased, etc., when they made a genuine (if big) error. That's all.

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Originally Posted by Fair_play_boy

What are we supposed to do, lie down and accept it while the evidence mounts up that something suspicious is going on?

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What about my suggestion - go out and take a refereeing course? You can talk all you want, it won't shift one Roman soldier... :p

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Originally Posted by steveh

Was sitting in the vicinity of Pat Kelly, an assessor for EL referees and heard him say that there was no way it was a penalty. Took up the point with him, then he said that we should never have gotten pen against derry few wks previous, so it all balanced out. What an idiot!!!

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Yeah, I had a chat with him afterwards, and he said exactly the same thing.

1) Penalty Incident

Devine came sliding into the challenge with two feet taking ball AND player. He is actually sliding sideways when he connects. Just because he makes contact with the ball doesn't mean it wasn't a foul. The challenge was reckless and if it had been an outfield player making the challenge most would have agreed it was a foul. Tony Grant went off injured a few minutes later as a result of Devines tackle.

Have another look at the incident and watch Devine, see if you still think he was innocent.

2) Stokes has refereed Cork City eight times this season. Cork have Won 3 (Drogs/Pats/Derry), Lost 2 (Bohs/UCD), Drawn 3 (Longford/Rovers/Bohs). Has given 2 penos against Cork. Has sent off no Cork players but has sent off two opposition players. Facts don't support case for conspiracy.

3) Referees have a split second to make a decision based on THEIR view, without the benefit of slow motion or replays from twenty different camera angles. They don't go out to deliberately rob one team over another, despite what you may think. Its a tough, thankless job, give them a break.

so to sum it all up ian stokes in a l*nger :D
and we're all agreed on the shocking standard of referees we have to see week in week out!

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Originally Posted by MAN-IN-BLACK

I hope you do the course Razor, referee some matches and then come back and tell the forum what a hard, thankless job the referee has. Fans look at decisions as good or bad depending on whether it went for or against their team.....

Look forward to see if you are still a referee in two years time!! :)

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I have been refereeing since 1988 and would agree, yes, it is a thankless task. But no matter how bad a game I had, I was always fair, acknowledged if I had made a wrong decision (never changed it), but also I never made such a balls up as Stokes did on Friday night.

It's obvious to everyone with a bit of sense that if the ball changes the direction that it is travelling in then contact has been made with it. Thus was the case on Friday. After seeing it again on the telly, Devine made no contact whatsoever with the player.

If you think he did then you, sir, need an eye-test. :p

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Originally Posted by colblimp

It's obvious to everyone with a bit of sense that if the ball changes the direction that it is travelling in then contact has been made with it. Thus was the case on Friday. After seeing it again on the telly, Devine made no contact whatsoever with the player.

If you think he did then you, sir, need an eye-test. :p

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Devine made no contact whatsoever!! THe fact that contact was made is not disputed even by Cork Fans. They argue that the contact happened after Devine won the ball or that the contact happened outside the area.

Now who needs an eye test!!
:rolleyes:

getting sick to death of coming into this forum after every game and seeing complaints about refs... yes they are bad, they are very bad....but they are just as bad for the opposition

its going a bit stale lads :eek:

IMO with all the moaning about refs and being in the limelight more than the linesmen(...ooops sorry,linespersons), that eddie foley is getting away with murder :D

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Originally Posted by steveh

Was sitting in the vicinity of Pat Kelly, an assessor for EL referees and heard him say that there was no way it was a penalty. Took up the point with him, then he said that we should never have gotten pen against derry few wks previous, so it all balanced out. What an idiot!!!

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I can't believe refs think like this.
I thought each game should be judged by itself, if each ref went about making atonements for f*ck ups in previous games then what kind of a league would we have. It shouldn't be about balancing things out.

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Originally Posted by MAN-IN-BLACK

I hope you do the course Razor, referee some matches and then come back and tell the forum what a hard, thankless job the referee has.

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I know what a thankless task it will be but I am hoping it will give me a better insight into the game and maybe be a bit more sympathetic of refs in general but by God with some of the performances I have ever witnessed it ain't been easy.

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Originally Posted by razor

I know what a thankless task it will be but I am hoping it will give me a better insight into the game and maybe be a bit more sympathetic of refs in general

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Trust me, it will. It'll also improve your knowledge of the game - you'd be amazed how many people are completely ignorant of some of the more basic rules!

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Originally Posted by ccfcman

I think you're the idiot, it was no penalty against Bohz :rolleyes:

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Read what I wrote. I know it wasn't, the point I took up with him was if he says it wasn't a pen,how come Stokes thought it was? Now who's the idiot? :rolleyes: