Zak Knight 'Irish' ?

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19/10/2004, 10:29 AM
barglee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soko

John O' Shea will NEVER be an international class centre half. I gave him time but he keeps proving me right as a useless sack of sh!t. Knight is also bettter than Breen and Dunne.

i dont see alex ferguson going out of his way to sign Knight to replace "sack of sh!t" o shea do you?
19/10/2004, 10:38 AM
green goblin

Quote:

Originally Posted by barglee

i dont see alex ferguson going out of his way to sign Knight to replace "sack of sh!t" o shea do you?

Too right, Barglee. The Directors and shareholders of Manchester United PLC prefer signing competent, proven players, wherever possible, to guarantee good returns on their investment. The amount of money involved, they're interested in the best they can get- and having so much money, they can aford some very good players indeed. Like John O'Shea. O'Shea's playing for Ireland for the forseeable future, it's fair to say. Zat Knight on the other hand, isn't.
19/10/2004, 11:51 AM
Bowsy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donal81

I can't think of a situation comparable to the Irish one in world football although there must be an example somewhere.

Could be wrong and often am but i believe a lot of the Turkish national team are German born but choose to declare for Turkey.

As regards Knight, always a difficult issue but comes down to one thing for me - do we need him? If he was a quality premiership forward we would be cutting off our nose to spite our face in saying no but he's not. He's a fairly average centre half. No great loss. anyone he thinks he's better than Dunne knows nothing of the all new and improved honey monster.
19/10/2004, 12:15 PM
Peadar

Quote:

Originally Posted by green goblin

The Directors and shareholders of Manchester United PLC prefer signing competent, proven players, wherever possible, to guarantee good returns on their investment. The amount of money involved, they're interested in the best they can get- and having so much money, they can aford some very good players indeed.

Ha ha ha! :D
Is it "Stand Up Comedy Night" in here or something? :D

Veron
Forlan
Djemba Djemba
Kleberson
Bosnich

Need I go on?
19/10/2004, 12:17 PM
drinkfeckarse

A lot of the French team were born in Senegal and the Dutch have always had players that were born in Surinam.
Even the Scots recently have taken on board plenty of "Anglo's" so it's more common than you think.
19/10/2004, 12:22 PM
green goblin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peadar

Ha ha ha! :D
Is it "Stand Up Comedy Night" in here or something? :D

Veron
Forlan
Djemba Djemba
Kleberson
Bosnich

Need I go on?

Ahem.
;) . ;) . ;)
Need I say more?
19/10/2004, 12:22 PM
Peadar

Quote:

Originally Posted by drinkfeckarse

A lot of the French team were born in Senegal and the Dutch have always had players that were born in Surinam.

Which is even worse when you think of it because the connection between these countries is slavery.
Surinam, of course, is what the Dutch got in exchange for "New Amsterdam" in a trade with the British because the Dutch couldn't satisfy their requirement for slaves.
For many of the players it was an escape from poverty in their own countries and a chance to get and EU passport.
19/10/2004, 12:38 PM
Superhoops

Quote:

Originally Posted by green goblin

Manchester United ...can aford some very good players indeed. Like John O'Shea......O'Shea's playing for Ireland for the forseeable future....

O'Shea cost nothing and it will be interesting to see if MU really rate him and keep him or offload him in January and 'crystalise their capital gain'.

Unless Kerr can find room for him somewhere else other than LB where he leaves us too exposed, I am not sure he will be playing for the foreseeable future.
19/10/2004, 12:45 PM
drinkfeckarse

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peadar

Which is even worse when you think of it because the connection between these countries is slavery.
Surinam, of course, is what the Dutch got in exchange for "New Amsterdam" in a trade with the British because the Dutch couldn't satisfy their requirement for slaves.
For many of the players it was an escape from poverty in their own countries and a chance to get and EU passport.

Wasn't really aware of the history but I had an idea that it might involve something like that.

Interesting that there's no apparent animosity by the players then towards their "adopted" countries. To me it would be like playing for England even though you're Irish.....you just couldn't do it because of the history. :confused:
19/10/2004, 12:49 PM
green goblin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superhoops

offload him in January and 'crystalise their capital gain'.
.

...And thus increase Machester United PLC's market share of the duvet, calandar, A4 folder and lunchbox non-spill drinks bottle trades. :rolleyes:

No fan of ManYoo myself either, not by a long shot. But I really don't think that O'Shea's the liability some people here are making him out to be. And the fact that Machester United PLC got him for nowt means nothing either. Cloughie got Keano for a steal, and Celtic bought Larson for �2.99 and a book token, and they both scrubbed up alright.
19/10/2004, 12:59 PM
Cowboy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colm55

As long as these players are fully committed when they pull on the shirt I dont mind

how the hell can he be fully committed when hes already stated his desire to play for england and obviously considers himself english. If he was not good enough to play U21 for us then he aint good enough now
19/10/2004, 12:59 PM
Peadar

Quote:

Originally Posted by green goblin

Celtic bought Larson for �2.99 and a book token.

How much did Barca pay for him? ;)
19/10/2004, 1:01 PM
green goblin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peadar

How much did Barca pay for him? ;)

Hey, we've come a long way since then. they used Paypal ;)
19/10/2004, 1:02 PM
Beavis

Quote:

Originally Posted by drinkfeckarse

Interesting that there's no apparent animosity by the players then towards their "adopted" countries. To me it would be like playing for England even though you're Irish.....you just couldn't do it because of the history. :confused:

But there does seems to be an animosity from caucasians in Holland towards these 'foreign' players.Just last week in the Dutch League,Den Haag(?) v PSV had to be abandoned by the ref as a result of the serious degree of rascism shown by fans towards some black players.PSV were fined last year after playing Arsenal in the Champions league.Wasn't there also rumours during EURO2004 that there was a substantial rift between the white and black players in the dutch side.The list goes on I'm sure....
19/10/2004, 1:04 PM
inexile

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynamo kerry

this argument has been done to death before.

there are two main considerations.

1) the recent Irish team has been predominatly irish born or closely connected to ireland for the last 10 or so years with 3 or at the outside 4 exceptions (morrison, carsley and holland being the stand outs as people who played regularly but had no real irish connection prior to declaring)

2) the recent rule change has flushed a few punters out - macken, whelan and now knight. if it hadnt been for this rule change I believe we would never have heard about any of these players and the days of the granny rule would have faded to obsolesence. I reckon these are the last lads who will declare so late into their 20's.

these lads should get as much of a benefit of the doubt as holland et al. if they're good enough and take it seriously a la morrison has then I won't have a problem.

knight maybe could have been a bit more diplomatic(ie lied) and been nicer about it. he could have mentioned a granny in westmeath he's always wanted to make happy by playing for ireland. hokey but nice.

as it is he'll do well to get a game .

which whelan are you talking about excuse my ignorance
19/10/2004, 1:08 PM
green goblin

Forgive my ignorance, but have we ever had a situation that's reversed? Someone plays for ROI U21 and then goes and plays for Ingerland (Or whoever) seniors? Someone was saying something similar happened with rugby, but can't remember who it was. I'm guessing it'd be no, but I thought I'd ask..?
19/10/2004, 1:10 PM
sylvo

Quote:

Originally Posted by green goblin

Forgive my ignorance, but have we ever had a situation that's reversed? Someone plays for ROI U21 and then goes and plays for Ingerland (Or whoever) seniors? Someone was saying something similar happened with rugby, but can't remember who it was. I'm guessing it'd be no, but I thought I'd ask..?

Cairan Bracken
19/10/2004, 1:21 PM
barglee

Quote:

Originally Posted by green goblin

Forgive my ignorance, but have we ever had a situation that's reversed? Someone plays for ROI U21 and then goes and plays for Ingerland (Or whoever) seniors? Someone was saying something similar happened with rugby, but can't remember who it was. I'm guessing it'd be no, but I thought I'd ask..?

your man Bracken for England......
19/10/2004, 1:33 PM
Peadar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beavis

Just last week in the Dutch League,Den Haag(?) v PSV had to be abandoned by the ref as a result of the serious degree of rascism shown by fans towards some black players....

I heard the "official" story last night and the game was abandoned because the fans were calling the ref a prostitute of PSV.
There's a campaign to stamp out certain chants and apparently this one is particularly offensive. The ref had been told before the game that he had the backing of everyone should such an incident take place.
Have to say, I've heard eL ref's being called a lot worse.

That said, you're right, there is a lot of racism in Holland.
I've lived and worked there.
It's quite prevalent.
19/10/2004, 1:40 PM
green goblin

Quote:

Originally Posted by barglee

your man Bracken for England......

Yes, Bracken, that's him. Thanks Barglee and Sylvo. Bracken.

So, what I suppose I'm thinking is... However stupid Knight is, and however badly he's handled things, is it not better this way around, rather than having someone who's born in England to Irish parents, playing for England instead? The more eligible players we have, of whatever standard and wherever they're born, then the wider the choice Kerr has to pick a squad.

My eldest's only 4. I've already said there's no way they're playing for England! :)

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