LoI/GAA discussion

Club and county loyalty, a volunteer ethos, and a higher standard of general fitness are three areas where the GAA score higher than LOI.

There were least two cases in the LOI last season of a large visible bulge under the jersey, this would be unthinkable at inter-county and senior club level (you might get away with it at Junior C).

The "any chance of a few pound, boss" mentality at LOI is sickening. Top players like your Twiggs, Ndos, etc, etc, need to be well paid. However there a lot of people at lower levels getting money out of the game who really are only a drain on resources. If all First Division players were on expenses only (not €200-€500 a week as some are), would the standard drop considerably ?

The merry-go-round has deteoriated over the last few seasons - in the past, players generally might play for 2-4 clubs over a fifteen year career, now a 23 year old could easily have played for five different clubs. The sight of a group moving en bloc from Monaghan to Drogheda, after winning promotion, demonstrates the nature of the League of Ireland in 2012.

My experience might differ from supporters of the leading clubs, however the lower you go in the league, the more the less savoury aspects of the LOI come to the surface. Rant over !

Higher fitness in the GAA? You must be joking. I've seen some real bogball fatties.

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Originally Posted by Straightstory

Higher fitness in the GAA? You must be joking. I've seen some real bogball fatties.

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This man played for longford for years! What an athlete!

http://raydonlon.smugmug.com/2011/Au...va130811-L.jpg

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

The GAA's presence abroad is growing and now with a tech age around us, it won't be long before the growing European leagues begin to feed back, added to this the North American and Australasian set-ups and there will be, within 5-10 years, 1 or 2 ex-pat driven teams in All-Ireland championships at some level.

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If Gaelic Games spread throughout Europe, and places like the UK, Spain and Italy took it up seriously, no doubt Ireland would soon be ranked about thirtieth in Europe (like the LOI) and the GAH fans would soon be supporting GAA teams in Manchester and Glasgow. I'd quite like to see that happen.

The "spread of the game" is GAA propaganda to counter the international element of "foreign codes". The idea that Felipe from Luzon Gaels will take on Hans from Offenbach Slashers in a future World Championship is complete rubbish.

Bizarrely, virtually all GAA matches played abroad at a grounds belonging to "foreign codes" or local authorities.

One thing that always gets me wondering is who the hell would pay gah players? I mean seriously, its bogball FFS:p!!!

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

Dude, go lie down, take a drink and relax. You've made your points, you've come to a conclusion about yourself, so just let it go. Nothing more to see here my lad.

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Ahh ya good man yourself.

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Originally Posted by Patrick Dunne

a higher standard of general fitness are three areas where the GAA score higher than LOI.

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Higher standard of general fitness?
Absurd really as I stated before to compare both sporting codes is very hard seeing that they are seperate entities and the GAA cannot be compared to an international standard because they continue to wallow in their own international irrelevancy.

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Originally Posted by Patrick Dunne

Club and county loyalty, a volunteer ethos, and a higher standard of general fitness are three areas where the GAA score higher than LOI.
My experience might differ from supporters of the leading clubs, however the lower you go in the league, the more the less savoury aspects of the LOI come to the surface. Rant over !

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Love a good rant myself but fact should not be the first victim

-Fans in LOI are every bit as loyal to their club as Gah heads, and most are wedded (for worse or worse) to the one club for life. So it is not true to say Gah fans are more loyal to their club than LOI, even allowing for the "local parish" aspect.

Not one LOI club would survive today without a number of people volunteering their services in some shape or form. Many posters on here are actively involved in some way and on a voluntary basis. Again, not true to say Gah has any more voluntary ethos (except players) than LOI clubs.

No county teams in LOI so give you that one PD.
;)
Remain to be convinced that fitness levels in GAA are higher than LOI (especially with full time nature of some clubs in recent years) but would be interested to see any report/comparison

As seen with Mick O'Dwyer managing Kildare, Wicklow etc the merry go round is already coming to the GAA, closely following payment, sorry expenses :rolleyes:

I think the point on club/county loyalty was referring to people's tendency to automatically attach themselves to their local club and county, rather than saying they have more dedicated followers than the LOI.

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Originally Posted by Mr A

I think the point on club/county loyalty was referring to people's tendency to automatically attach themselves to their local club and county, rather than saying they have more dedicated followers than the LOI.

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Suspect same would apply to many LOI fans Mr A. Most have local/family link to club we support. Less so in urban areas but again same would apply RE GAA clubs.

Maybe mixing us up with the glory hunting barstoolers that "support" EPL :rolleyes:

LOI supporters are amongst the most loyal of any group in Ireland. I was referring to player loyalty. I suppose it is a two way street, clubs don't tend to stand by players.

Vast swathes of the country, whether we like it or not, are GAA heartland, with the Premiership on television at the weekend, and a bit of junior soccer for the craic, and to keep fit in winter. Large counties like Tipperary, Mayo, Kerry etc, have no League of Ireland "culture", where in Galway, Limerick, Waterford, there will generally be a few people in every village/town who go to the local LOI matches.

I am from a GAA background, in the rural parts of Galway there would be a mentality from some sports followers that Galway United are the "county soccer team" and that they should be supported on that basis. We live a lot closer to Athlone than Galway city, and Athlone Town were far more successful when I was younger - but I have yet to meet anyone in our general area who ever went to St Mels to support them.

Bear in mind that my team lost 34 matches this season, I am currently suffering an LOI "mid-life crisis" !

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Originally Posted by Patrick Dunne

LOI supporters are amongst the most loyal of any group in Ireland. I was referring to player loyalty. I suppose it is a two way street, clubs don't tend to stand by players.

Vast swathes of the country, whether we like it or not, are GAA heartland, with the Premiership on television at the weekend, and a bit of junior soccer for the craic, and to keep fit in winter. Large counties like Tipperary, Mayo, Kerry etc, have no League of Ireland "culture", where in Galway, Limerick, Waterford, there will generally be a few people in every village/town who go to the local LOI matches.

I am from a GAA background, in the rural parts of Galway there would be a mentality from some sports followers that Galway United are the "county soccer team" and that they should be supported on that basis. We live a lot closer to Athlone than Galway city, and Athlone Town were far more successful when I was younger - but I have yet to meet anyone in our general area who ever went to St Mels to support them.

Bear in mind that my team lost 34 matches this season, I am currently suffering an LOI "mid-life crisis" !

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GAA heartland ? would that be Tipp bogball or Kerry and Mayo hurling ? :o

No argument RE player loyalty to clubs (currently) but as I said that will erode in GAA with payment to players making them more mobile as in LOI. That legend of GAA Mick O'Dwyer has led the way already along with many other managers and I expect that trend to continue down to players.

Incidentially, I dont see this change as a good thing (for GAA) and was just pointing out that there is no point in suggesting LOI seek to replicate the model when it is on the way out in GAA. Once payment for players comes in there will be players moving for better pay. Probobly an aside but this is likely to accelerate as GAA can no longer line up jobs in banks/sales etc for players.

Soccer can indeed learn a lot from the GAA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQblXFrzlnk

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Originally Posted by Rasputin

Ahh ya good man yourself.

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Let it go kiddo, let it go. Don't get over or underwhelmed :-) or even whelmed.

There's an awful sense of what I've picked up in the less secure countries of nationhood in the discussion. No sport is better than another, all have their good points and the admin or organisation of one or another can always be learned from - good and bad points. I'm not sure if fitness in the GAA is totally uniform and good as was mentioned, though the dedication from players is phenomenal and at a full-time level. I greatly hope a day will never come that players get paid, better treated yes, but paid no. It will genuinely take something away from the energy and then we're looking at clubs going bang in a serious way. However, top down regulation has always been better laid out and this is definitely a point from which the FAI can learn lessons.

However the GAA and FAI (or FIFA) have similar failings - not moving with the times (if this can be understood). Using video replays is a long way from either and while UEFA adopted the umpire system (without the groovy white coats), video replays at the highest level remain a sticking point for both.

There is dedication to both bodies (GAA and FAI) in Ireland and following one doesn't preclude following the other, unless a person has serious hang ups (not being picked for a school team, being bullied by inbreds on an under-10's outing to Dunboyne, or getting a kicking against Newbridge Town) or feels insecure about their sports place in the greater scheme. There are so many examples of such nkobbish behaviour from both sides - I can't recall the clowns name (he was a top intercounty ref, from Kildare I think), but he was a referee who insisted on going ahead with his groups tee time at a golf classic fundraiser which clashed with the Romania 2nd round match in 1990 - his playing partners all wanted to watch it, but he insisted that since they were at a GAA club golf classic they shouldn't be watching a foreign sport. Obviously irony was lost on the man seeing as he was playing a Scottish sport instead. I'll leave it unbalanced as the pathetic stupidity of other such biased behaviour doesn't bear retelling.

(? can anyone remember the ref's name?)

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

Let it go kiddo, let it go. Don't get over or underwhelmed :-) or even whelmed.

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Indeed.

I'd largely agree with Spud that we shouldn't see the two sports as being in "competition" - after all in most communities nationwide, both codes will generally have a local team, and indeed largely drawing on the same pool of players, especially in rural areas, while most true sports fans will take an interest in both, and probably rugby to boot. The FAI has taken the biggest lesson from the GAA in making an integrated youth set-up a condition of licensing, and if following on from that, most LoI clubs decide to limit transfers and develop a local first-team squad, a la Athletic Bilbao, it can only be to the league's benefit. Aspects of GAA cultures can't be grafted automatically, but they are masters of fundraising ( Club Tyrone, annual dinner banquets, draws for squad holidays, etc).

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

I greatly hope a day will never come that players get paid, better treated yes, but paid no. It will genuinely take something away from the energy and then we're looking at clubs going bang in a serious way. However, top down regulation has always been better laid out and this is definitely a point from which the FAI can learn lessons.

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I think GAA players are treated well enough, generally speaking: they're often sorted out off the field one way or another with doors opened into networks of employment and patronage that allow them to be professional athletes in all but name. It's understood that an inter-county player is not actually expected to show up in work for extended periods.
GAA players are devoted and loyal to their clubs and counties - and that is such a strength - but that devotion and loyalty is underwritten by, enabled by, how embedded the GAA is in the culture of rural, middle class Ireland. They're loyal and devoted because they can afford to be.

The LoI does not have the privileged position that the GAA has. LoI players have to work for a living - I think fans often forget that, for example, when players are criticised for being mercenaries. Unfortunately, the LoI cannot just copy the GAA in this respect.

Your point about schools is crucial. It would be difficult, perhaps in some cases, even a taboo, for the LoI to try to get involved in schools, precisely because any such project could very well be seen as an encroachment onto the GAA's turf; an attempt to tap into one of the networks of employment and patronage I mentioned above. For all that, I think the FAI should launch a full scale assault on schools - that's where the future is. (I probably shouldn't quote the Jesuits' "Give me the boy at 7..." maxim, but there, I've done it.)

You've made a good point about the FAI's failings in leading top-down reform and promotion of the LoI. Delaney is a great fella for the free pints, flying ties, vanity tournaments in the 'Aviva' and seven-figure salaries for Trap but it's all focused on the international team. If the GAA were to follow suit the hurling and GAA championships would get 1 hour a week on Monday night, patronisingly set to music on RTE2 and the international rules would be the centrepiece.

C82, I'd forgotten the fundraising part, though football clubs are good at this too, and it is a case of Club Tyrone being a version of the 400 club or GUST, Foras etc. It's something that football in Ireland has lacked, in general, is a nailed down home. It's far too easy (in the past especially) to condemn football clubs for being fly by night, not linked to a community or never building structures. All the usual wummers can blame closeness to politics or business that allowed the GAA and IRFU build locally, however this cannot be used as an excuse. Football clubs have been foresighted enough to develop their own facilities and gain a local identity - I played underage with 2 of the better ones (Verona and St. Mochtas) but others had a disconnect. Players moved from club to club for a few quid extra and there was no loyalty. This will diminish in the GAA if pay for play comes in.

Totally agree with fans crossing over, Munster has been the best example of this. 5 years ago at a Munster match in old Thomond I had a drink with one football/rugby journo and his IT counterpart, and with us were a GAA man from Clare and an out and out football man from Limerick. But that day they were Munster 100%. It'll never happen in LOI, but maybe some regions can be better than others.

Love to see a Bilbao scenario develop - but I've a feeling that will only come into play if the FAI enforce rules on something of this nature. They do it in other countries (but for foreigners or a need to play locally developed under 21's).