Sunderland lose on penalties

See it does not have to come down to roy keane, people had opinions on Mick Mc Carthy before Saipan happened. THat is the thing tat people forget they think tht Anti Mc Carthyites just sprang out of the wood work durig Saipan. I was ****ed of with McC arthy for the following reasons

3-5-2 formation and ian harte and centre back

Roy Keane at sweeper

Asking irwin to prove him wrong

Making McGrath go to Bryan Adams concert

Playin for 0-0 against Croatia

Bringing Matt HOlland on against Macedonia at right back in the final minutes

Haing no penotaker in Romania and eventually keane stoodup and missed

I am sure there is lots and lots more but the biggest thing is not expectingto win

Celebrating after we drewwith holland after we led 2-0, asking roy keane to pose for the media as it would makehim look good.

Having Ian Evans as assistant.

Then at WOrld Cup 2002 he made lots of blunders too.
He is a manager for the 1st Division,that is were he deservesto be

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Making McGrath go to Bryan Adams concert

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You have a point Neil. He'd have made a mortal enemy of me too if he forced me to sit through two hours of that crap... :D

:D PP

AFAIK, Sunderland still had the highest wage bill in the division. All this talk of having no money is b0llox from what I can see.

Oh, nice to see McAteer was so gutted at missing out on the chance of promotion that he turned up on shíte TV show last night - for charidee or not, bad form IMO.

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Originally Posted by Macy

Oh, nice to see McAteer was so gutted at missing out on the chance of promotion that he turned up on shíte TV show last night - for charidee or not, bad form IMO.

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I think a little perspective is called for here. His team lost a play-off match. No-one died. No doubt it was a long-standing commitment to appear on TV; certainly one arranged before the play-off fixtures were known. What's the man supposed to do? Long face and a black armband? Come on... :rolleyes:

:) PP

I really dont get the hate that people have for mc ateer. People are going to be divided with mc carthy but now cause of the incident at the sunderland manu game its either judas or mc ateer. He has been a great servant to Ireland and still has a lot to offer to the team. As for tv last night so what its for bloody charity for gods sake . As said above obviously was prior commitment. Im sure he was as gutted as anyone but is he meant to hide away ?

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Originally Posted by only1kilbane

so if the penos had have gone the other way ?

You cant please some people. I thought losing to spain on penos and drawing with the finalists after all the furore with sicknote was pretty good !

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In 94 we beat the eventual finalists. It doesn't make Charlton a good manager.

I was another person disgusted when McCarthy was given the Irish job and I celebrated the day he left. He proved the person he is when he told Denis Irwin to "go prove himself". Denis Irwin has nothing to prove and McCarthy has everything.

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Originally Posted by finlma

In 94 we beat the eventual finalists. It doesn't make Charlton a good manager.

I was another person disgusted when McCarthy was given the Irish job and I celebrated the day he left. He proved the person he is when he told Denis Irwin to "go prove himself". Denis Irwin has nothing to prove and McCarthy has everything.

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Every manager has every right to tell any player to go out and prove themselves.

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Originally Posted by Conor74

may be a fan of Roy

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Sure I always thought you hated him? Selected editting is great Conor :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Greenbod

Every manager has every right to tell any player to go out and prove themselves.

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He didn't tell him to prove himself, he told him to prove him wrong. In other words McCarthy thought Irwin wasn't good enough.
Denis Irwin is a very placid man but he was riled when McCarthy said that to him and rightly so.

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Originally Posted by Conor74

Roy was playing, McCarthy wasn't manager.

How come our record was 1 win, 1 draw against Norway and 2 bad losses. that sounds pretty poor to me.

And I thought Korea Japan was supposed to be the disaster, and with Roy playing we would have won it, and romped home against Brazil etc. etc. etc.

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I never mentioned Roy Keane, what are you talking about? You seem to have some sort of sad obsession with bringing it back to him every time.
Also, I never said we had a good tournament in the US. I was using only1kilbane's method of measuring success. We had a very poor tournament then but a good win against Italy.

Exactly I think some people dont realise that you can criticise Mick Mc Carthy as a manager and it have absolutely nothing to do with Roy Keane at all. Roy Keane is a flawed man but is a great footballer. But people like me and others here had problems with Mc Carthy as manager because number one

he did not have enough experience as he had only managed at Division 1 with Millwall for a few years. Joe Kinnear should have been offered the job without an interview. Then when he did have the job he tried load of ideas that were so flawed it was not true, please see my earlier e mail for that. This is all before his run in with Keane in Saipan. My criticisms of Mc Carthy were there before Saipan and remain afterwards as he still is what is always will be, a nice guy but his is only a Division 1 manager. Now if people here are happy for hard luck stories and heroic failures and nearly men, well then so be it, but I prefer the Irish football team to be managed by a guy that wants the best of everything (again this was a view i had before Saipan so it has nothing to do with Keane, fail to prepare, prepare to fail comment) Unfortunately Mc Carthy is such a nice man that he does not like to upset the suits and demand certain things to be done. So Conor please lose your fascination with Roy Keane, Some of us here admire his talents, no more or no less but he is not the centre of every argument.

McCarthy is not the greatest manager in the world but it's not really his fault he was offered the job. Wouldn't criticise him for early experimentation as the side he inherited from Charlton was a shambles. He had to try rebuild. Mick did his best and it wasn't enough. There is certainly no need for the level of hate some people seem to have for him.
Still waiting for a RMK free thread. It's like searching for foot.ie's Holy Grail!

I dont have any hate for Mc Carthy and I dont think any hate was shown in my posts i criticised him from a professional point of view. I agree it was not his fault he was given the job but then again look at David O Leary, he ruled himself out the last time as he said that the Ireland job should be the pinnacle of your career and somethign you should do when you have experience. I think Mc Carthy may have been wiser to adopt this approach. Kinnear was the man with experience at the time and he had Wimbledon in the top six of the Premier League, he wanted the job but could not do an interview while been manger of another club. I agree he was left a shambles by Charlton and his disregard for the Youth. Another thing that seems to be lacking for a lot of posts his that I think Mc Carthy did a lot of things right while Ireland manager but fundamentaly he was not up to the job of been a total success. Too many people stay in their respective positions i.e. either Roy Keane was righ or Mc Carthy was right and there were no grey areas. Davros is a prime example of this, his nonsensical posts about RMK are laughable.. YOu dont have to like Keane but you cannot fail to admit that he was a great player whilst playing for Ireland. The same as i would say that Mc Carthy really played well for Ireland during the 1990 world cup and he brought on the youngster with Ireland very well and got us playing some great football. People should get out of their "camps" and have a rational view of these things. But again i re-iterate my criticisms of Mc Carthy have nothing to do with Roy keane and where there long befor Saipan and all of them are professional and not personal.

Well sorry you obviously know my viewpoint better than i do and of course you are fight that all my views are influenced by keane despite the fact , that the facts point out thtat this is not the case. THis is a post about the Ireland manager and how he is not up to the job of managing either a Premiership team or a top internatinoal side either. I held these views before Saipan so i am hardly goign to change them after just cause people like to shake shamrocks and bananas in the phoenix park and celebrate failure. Get a Grip conor you are the one who brings Keane into this post no me or others. Here is a tip dont try to second guess people opinion on a forum as you dont knwo the people you are just presuming that we are all typical keane lovers but i for one is not and he has many flaws as i have said before.

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

I dont have any hate for Mc Carthy and I dont think any hate was shown in my posts

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Wasn't referring to you Neil but there are many post that are very harsh on Mick. It all comes down to the RMK Saipan yawn-fest again as always. People easily forget the side McCarthy inherited and how far he came. A little bit too naive a manager but he did a good job overall for my money. Also people who believe it's solely McCarthy's we didn't win the last world cup need to get a grip.

Again my views on Mc Carthy have nothing to do with Saipan as I had formed this view long before that incident. It is possible to have a view on Mc Carthy before Saipand happend it is not year zero in relatio to Irish Football.

Probably to do with the age profile of people who used Internet Fans Forums, we are hardly going to have a big debate here about Eoin Hand and Liam Tuohy and Johhny Giles. It is the most recent manager we have had and are views are formed by first hand experience of seeing his teams play. I can only speak for myself in that i commented on this board as the playoffs confirmed what i have said for years, and even when lots of people said oh look at Mc Carthy he is diong a great job at Sunderland and i said mark my word this will end in glorious failure and what do we get!!!! glorious failure.

Neil seems to be talking sense but I really don't know what you get at in your posts Conor, you seem to have a strange view of things.
I believe that McCarthy is an over-rated manager and that has nothing to do with your rant about Saipan. Who cares how many pages this is running to, you don't have to read it.

I think this thread should have been called " How good it was to laugh at Mick and Mc Ateer " not from the roy fan club obviously.

Get over your hatred kids . Mick did well for us brought a lot of kids through. Obviously he made mistakes so does Brian Kerr but pre wc according to most he was doing well. Obviously the keane incident then seems to make people think they have to love one hate the other and mc ateer was thrown into this as well.

get over it kids !

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Originally Posted by only1kilbane

I think this thread should have been called " How good it was to laugh at Mick and Mc Ateer " not from the roy fan club obviously.

Get over your hatred kids . Mick did well for us brought a lot of kids through. Obviously he made mistakes so does Brian Kerr but pre wc according to most he was doing well. Obviously the keane incident then seems to make people think they have to love one hate the other and mc ateer was thrown into this as well.

get over it kids !

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NO hatred from me, and i have not laughed at Mc Carthy once, I just think as a sunderland fan you should get used to glorious failures as Mc Carthy will be the expert in them, i am not getting any pleasure from this but that is what is going to happen. In relatio to his win/loss ratio i think that is fair that he does have a decent record there, and my view is that Mc Carthy does have a decent record and is a decent manager, But when it really boils down to it at the pressure moments when the top managers shine he is left wanting. His in game management is terrible and probably his achilles heel. Again Davros gives us an intellectual post on why he does not like Roy keane, i dont know how i can compete with that intellect.