congratulations on missing the point. (though we both know you didnt really miss the point)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Printable View
congratulations on missing the point. (though we both know you didnt really miss the point)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Heard the Irish Daily Mirror's man rail against FIFA, and all of this smacks of a teenage disco - you ask someone for a dance, they refuse, then you tell them you didn't fancy them anyway! And what's more, the only reason they turned you down was because they're unsure of their own sexuality and that you're the best person for them and even more than that, they'd be lucky to have someone as good as you because everyone told you this!
I don't know how many times I've been doorstepped by politicians or been canvassed and I've told them (except FF) that I'd think of them when it came time to make my mark. Same happens with FIFA yet all the votes are made known afterwards - how ridiculous is that? Actually, that's the scandal, and makes me worry about our great election next year!
The point is that it's a game, a pretty ugly political game at that, and England knew that when they entered. They played badly and lost, and decided to kick up a fuss about the lack of tranparency and fairness about the whole process.
But they weren't bothered about these things when they were giving designer bags to partners of FIFA executives not so long ago. They weren't bothered when their exec Thompson made a voting deal with the Korean exec (who reneged on it). The guardian today are trying to portray him as a man of principle on the basis that he refused to promise his vote to multiple bidders, and yet failing to comment on the contradiction of his position with the main complaint of the English bid: that their technical advantage seemingly counted for nothing. It certainly counted for nothing as fas as Thompson was concerned, as he was engaging in a deal which was supposed to ensure England a vote.
The Guardian at least have the decency to admit that if England had got the WC, then all these cries for transparency and reform wouldn't be coming from the English media right now.
Don't get me wrong, it's a stinking system which does need reform, but this notion that the principled English bid is outraged by the shadiness of which they were previously unaware is laughable. They played the game just like everybody else, but they lost.
That's really well put Osarusan (especially the bit about the system being dodgy). What it all boils down to is England lost at something, and somebody has to be blamed. Panorama were thrown in there, the Sunday Times too, and even the bid "team" were angry with the BBC and Times for their efforts, writing letters to FIFA saying how great they were and how they trusted the process, yet as soon as they lose it's all guns blazing.
What nobody seems to get is that England failed a fair bit of the criteria, Belgium-Holland too, even Spain and Portugal were taken to task over the financial stability in each country. Russia looks the safest in terms of economy right now and that's saying something. Yet this will run and run.
Having moved back to an almost friendly neutral point since the late 80's with English football, I now find myself disgusting and against them again. Purely for their self-righteous, blinkered views. And it's not just in their media, the wallies who care more about the bottom line than sport are out in force.
So thye can't even bribe properly
Actually, Sebastian Coe was on FIFA's ethics committee (before joining England's committee) and would know all about any trouble (or alleged) going on there but, afaik, he did nothing about it. AFAIK, he hasn't been one of the English bid members to partake in the uproar since Thursday. Is he aware that all this protesting will be futile?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme...ma/7056420.stm
There is a pillock over here trying to stir up some trouble in the local media, calling on the US football federation and other bodies, who have by and large been graceful in defeat, to kick up and cry and fail to accept what has happened.
Just reading those external articles makes me even warmer of heart knowing that Ingerland and Americay won't host them. I find it funny and unsurprising, and most of us are at how the reactions have been. I refuse to believe though if it was Netherlands-Belgium and Australia that would have won it that that there would be this outcry.
The dogs in the street know FIFA are corrupt and I even assumed that this would have been the end result.
We all remember the furore when Germany won 2006 and I don't think anyone could complain about that WC. There will be this sort of whining everytime a bid is lost. People forget the outrage when Manchester didn't win The Olympics for 2000. So get ready for the announcement in a few years for Spain 2026.
people here are forgetting that it is not just about England not winning. Its the bigger picture and Qatar is the far more outrageous decision in my opinion. Maybe the focus is more intensely about 2018 over there.
Well its masking the outrageous decision that was Qatar over here.
I love football but there are times like Henrygate and now this that it sickens me so much, I feel like I can't watch another game. Last year, I didn't expect the game to be replayed or for us to be given a 33rd spot. No, I had hoped that FIFA would do something to prevent this from happening in the future. At least to consider the option of goal line technology or a system to review such incidents. But no, nothing. It was laughed off by Blatter and co.
And here we are 12 months later with some more farcical decisions by the most corrupt sporting organization in the world. England, Spain/Portugal, USA and Austrailia, I sure tried to "buy" votes on the FIFA Executive Committee. It's just that they didn't offer as much as Russia and Qatar. England should not have to resort to having to play friendlies in the summer in Trinidad or have Beckham open an academy there to secure the vote of Jack Warner (who turned on them in any case). It's all about power and money. 'What can we do to secure your vote?' should not be a criteria to securing the World Cup.
And it's easy to bash Anson and co when they are now saying they should not even bother to apply anymore under these circumstances. Of course they knew the game of politics and money and they tried to play. It's just that Russia and Qatar are better at it since that it what they are good at.
There is no easy way to fix this either e.g. for the US bid for 2022, it is rumored over here that it's quite probable that Warner, the Concacaf President did even vote for the US in the first round. But with 30 something island countries in the Caribbean who are a lock for Warner when his term is up next year, there is little that US and Mexico, who bring in the vast majority of the money to Concacaf can do.
And as for 2026, logic suggests it should go to a non-Asian, probably non-Euro country, maybe the US again. But if China comes knocking, it will be handed to them on a platter by Blatter so he can continue his "legacy".
As I said, I love the sport, but I loathe FIFA.
Blatter will be gone in eight years' time when 2026 is awarded. You'll hope. (He's 74 now)
Whatever about England, the Yanks (and Japan and South Korea) shouldn't have gotten 2022 purely on the basis that they've had it quite recently (1994 and 2002).
The 2022 vote came down to USA, Qatar, Australia, Japan and Korea. 3 of them have (co-)hosted a World Cup in that last 16 years. Australia couldn't even guarantee that stadiums/pitches would be available (and had significant objections from some state governments). There's no doubt that all that helped Qatar. Throwing billions at it probably helped a small bit tooQuote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Blatter actually inserted a clause in the FIFA statutes that prevents a continent holding it twice in a row. So it definitely won't be China in 2026Quote:
Originally Posted by Metrostars
I think the thing that pi$$es off the English fans and media is that their bid scored the highest mark out of all the other 2018 bids yet it counted for nothing. I think the document cost 3 million to put together.
Qatar is the strange one though and it has to be down to £. The journalists moaning should be out there finding the money trail.....
This is from yesterdays Observer. David Hill's always cracks me up. A good read....
2018 - The timeline
How Sepp's big decision was made easier:
1) Leaked US cable describes Russia as "a rampantly corrupt, autocratic kleptocracy" run by a leader who has "amassed a massive secret fortune" by running a "mafia state" based on "personal enrichment, protection for gangsters, extortion and kickbacks, suitcases full of money, a parallel tax system and bribery estimated at $300bn a year".
2) Sepp: "Congratulations to Russia! Clearly, I am a satisfied man."
The highlights
Highlights from the last three months as Sepp set about shaping his legacy ("I'm working to make football a school of life, bringing hope, bringing emotions!"):
• Best individual performance: Executive Committee member Amos Adamu – caught in the bribery sting four months after telling colleagues facing separate fraud charges how they should behave. "The public sees every football administrator as corrupt, and I cannot explain why it is so. We must always be transparent to prove them wrong!"
• Runner-up: Former ExCo member Ismael Bhamjee – caught in the same sting, four years after his first one: exposed in 2006 for touting World Cup tickets at three times face value to supplement his £270 daily Fifa expenses. "I got myself in a mess," Bhamjee said at the time. "This was out of character."
• Best award: Former ExCo member Viacheslav Koloskov – travelling to Asunción in October to lobby current ExCo member Nicolás Léoz for Russia's bid. Léoz (accused by Panorama of taking £450k in bribes) honoured Koloskov (who received an unauthorised £65k payment from Sepp in 2002) with an award for "services to football and its principles".
• Best analysis: also from Koloskov – greeting the publication of the bids' expensive technical reports in November: "I know from my own experience that ExCo members work with little information. The inspection reports are enormous, so no one reads them."
• Best timing: October – Russia's sports minister Vitaly Mutko attacks the British press for "obsessive" analysis of Russia's racism record. Also that month: Russian football agent Vladimir Abramov gives an interview to Sport.ru about how Nigerians ruin Russian cities with "their drugs, and ultimately, their Aids". Abramov: "Teams shouldn't have more than one dark-skinned footballer. When there's more than one they are aggressive"; plus: "I am very respectful towards blacks, but Russia isn't ready for them." FIfa's view: "Racism will not be taken into account in the bidding process … It is not an operation matter".
• Best outrage: Mutko again, on why attention from the English press left him exasperated. "No matter what we say we are portrayed by them as a hotbed of corruption. It is not true." Later that week: Russian authorities launch a criminal investigation into alleged fraud at Mutko's ministry, including Mutko's own expenses claim for 97 breakfasts eaten during a 20-day trip to Vancouver.
• Best defenders: Fifa ExCo members on the "slanders" against Sepp's process:
1) Jérôme Valcke (sacked in 2006 for "lying repeatedly" to potential sponsors and reappointed by Sepp in 2007): "We have done everything we can to make sure this process is fair and transparent."
2) Chuck Blazer (called a liar "without credibility" by a US judge in 2006): "You can't say the system is bad just because one newspaper created a scam, a trap."
3) Jack Warner (totally clean): "We preach equity… we live by our principle of fair play!"
4) Plus: Angel María Villar Llona – making an epic address to colleagues in Zurich: "I love Fifa dearly but those I love the most are my colleagues in the ExCo. Recently we have been criticised by certain media, but unfortunately for them, Fifa is a clean institution. We have heard enough slander. This process is clean – whatever they say!"
• Proudest media campaign: The Sun, writing an open letter to Sepp on the eve of voting, attacking Panorama's "sabotage" of England's bid. "Today The Sun makes this plea to Mr Blatter and Fifa: don't be put off by the BBC's rehashing of ancient history. Despite BBC muckraking, The Sun trusts Fifa to put football first." (3 Dec, The Sun: "FIXED! FIFA BUNGS RUSSIA THE WORLD CUP … Calls for corruption probe …")
• Plus: the best single assessment of why England lost – seven weeks before the vote: former ExCo member Ahongalu Fusimalohi, also caught in the Sunday Times sting, warning that England must offer bribes. "England don't strike deals. It's sad but it's true." Fusimalohi explained: "It is corrupt – but only if you get caught."
Clean break: moving on
Next for Sepp after a tough few months: a chance for some clean PR in the build-up to Brazil 2014. Overseeing the tournament: Fifa ExCo member Ricardo Teixeria – due in court this week in Rio over alleged money laundering, tax evasion and "other economic crimes". Teixeria, who denies wrongdoing, was due in court last week, but secured a postponement so he could vote in Zurich.
And finally: why England really lost
The Daily Mail on why England's bid failed: "Was it the video that cost us?" The Mail says the film shown during England's bid presentation in Zurich was "un-English", too "multi-cultural" and relied on "a range of ethnically diverse figures".
(Online comments on the story from Mail readers: • "It makes me sick when we have this 'multicultural' rubbish rubbed in our faces" • "This country is dying" • "You couldn't make it up, we Brits have to put up with this nonsense every day" • "Fools! Multi cultural idiots!!!" • "Well done Daily Mail for having the courage to speak up" • plus: "If only Diana were here to see what this nation has become.")
it scored highest in some of the technical areas but its rarely down to that (as Russia can build it stadia and upgrade its plans)Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker1982
Number of FIFA Executive voters who read the English 2018 document? 3. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...-bid-book.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Russia had it in the bag months ago.
Thats BS as they were all handed each bid. Whether they read it or not is down to your own beliefs but the Telegraph is printing rubbish.
And of course the decision was made months ago. As it should've been according to the various assesments. Typical fecking English media thinking that Beckham and Prince Willy could swing it for them.
It would have been 28 years for the US at 2022. Germany hosted in 2006, 32 years after their last time. Not much of a difference there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
They have no problem in breaking their own rules when it suits them. Now, what happened to that Rotation Rule they had?Quote:
Blatter actually inserted a clause in the FIFA statutes that prevents a continent holding it twice in a row. So it definitely won't be China in 2026
IT wasn't a rule. The new 'rule' is about the continents.
And yeah, of course FIFA is corrupt and can break whatever rules they make.
My point is that people can't pick and choose when they think FIFA were bing corrupt and when they weren't. You can't say that Germany or Brazil was the right decision but Russia or Qatar isn't, based solely on corruption.