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America style democracy to iraq involves American trained and funded death squads roaming the streets, corruption, oil leaving the country daily, Iraq government been charged for the reconstruction of their own country, saddams notorious prisons opening up again, ethnic and religious strife, etc etc. God bless America!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
The irish/scots/english you met in the USA sound like idiots, but then you know them dont you!!!
I've never heard anything about this, nor can I find any references. But to answer your question, no, I wouldn't be ok with it, if it's even true.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
I didn't know we had to be experts on war in order to have an opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
The media was certainly culpable in the selling of the Iraq war, none more so than Fox 'So-called' News. At least the other outlets have recanted much of what they reported i.e WMD. Now, you cannot be serious about Talk Radio in the States. The only impartial organisation is the publicly funded NPR. The rest of the airwaves are dominated by right-wing hacks Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glen Beck etc. I hope this is not your idea of balanced. These guys are entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts and this is where their audience falls for the hook, line and sinker.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
The intelligence he used was flawed and he knew it. There were no WMD's found in Iraq other than unusable remnants left over from the Gulf war.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
I've been living in the US for almost 25 years and I can't disagree with people having a dim view of the US, considering it's most recent history. Obama gave the world a glimmer of what the US could be when he was first elected. Although he has been in office almost two years, he has his work cut out to repair the damage that was laid upon this country by Bush and his war for profit mongering neo-cons.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
I do know them, and proud that I do. But maybe we're all idiots and you are the only one who knows what he's talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
If you lived in the US for any length of time you'd see things vastly differently.
I know a Kurd who's very thankful to the Americans for saving his family. I'd say there are plenty of Bosnians who thinkg the same way. And hopefully if Iran and Israel go to war, which just may happen the way things are going, you won't be looking to America for protection.
So you listen to Fox News and Rush Limbaugh and it obviously makes you such a well-balanced contributor! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
It was 90% driven by Karl Rove & Bush's cohorts and their pals in the 'military-industrial complex' who had a few billions of their own WMD to flog. The rest of the 'international community' were just monkeys on a string. Led by chief d*ck, Bl*ir.Quote:
If you are going to blame America for the Iraq war then you have to confess that you forgot to also apportion a decent share of the blame to Britain, France, Germany and Russia, all of whom pooled their intelligence information with the White House beforehand. And what of Spain - they had an occupying force in Iraq did they not? The Iraq war was very much an international effort.
Except they, er, didn't. Even Wubya admits that FFS.Quote:
the American president required to respond (and that 'requirement' vow is one he takes upon being sworn in) and with him being told after 911 that Iraq had all the ingredients to make WMD's, many of which were found in the country, then the decision to go into Iraq was a well informed one.
You mean like in Florida 2000 and Ohio 2004??Quote:
I'll be the first to say that the US forces stayed too long in the country, but there are those who'll argue that the US mission evolved into one of helping the country to democracy (they've had how many elections now?).
If it happened, it would be down to some random nutter rather than some concerted military campaign, though maybe we should have not let those US military re-fuel at Shannon or stood up to the Brits more on behalf of their illegal colonial theme park.....Quote:
what would Ireland do if we had the wherewithal to respond to an attack on our country?
If we had even half the military power of either the USA or Iraq our response would have involved loss of life to some innoncents in some country, would it not?
Clearly they were indoctrinated or contaminated by the same media you decry in yer opening sentence.Quote:
I talked over a number of years with ex-pats from Ireland, England and Scotland, who were living in the US. For what it's worth they were, and still are I would suggest, completely disgusted by the sort of anti-American feelings (from those back home) that are in evidence on this thread.
If the US carries on bombing or shooting up the feck out of certain places then people will fight back. And Good Luck to them.
What are you on, seriouslyQuote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
If anything you are the kind of person that gives America a bad name. Most people respect what America did in WW2 etc and its constitution and bill of rights are a shining light. BUT that doesnt mean America has cart blanche to kill and maim innocents all over the world from central america, vietnam to today in Iraq. People are dissapointed at what america has become. And if you reallly loved America you would see this, rather than following fox news like a sheep without questioning.
As for protection from an imminent attack from Iran, well somehow I dont think the lakes of Westmeath are much of a threat to the Mullahs in Iran:rolleyes:
I did, and I don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
you're disqualified for being educated kev.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
Just because America's actions have saved some people doesn't make them 100% good. If I break into someone's house and murder them and their family for money, it's not excused by the fact that one of them might have once killed someone.
And now back to the question will Obama win in 2012. He has an even money chance. Economy turns enough ie unemployment drops from 10.5% to around 8% then that will help. Republicians roll back Obama's health care reforms (the would be hugely unpopular with the unemployed, low wage workers without insurance, seniors and Hispanics). Obama could also garner the huge Hispanic vote by offering a Reagan like amnesty to illegals. America is quickly moving away from Europe and its cultural pull. Central and south America, Asia and the Indian sub continent peoples are going to dominate the US in the very near future. The tea party is in many ways the dying kick of those of white European stock. Irish-americans have little or no pull here anymore (same applies to Brit Anglo Americans). That show is gone forever.
You can refer back to this post in 2 years if you like: Unless he does something utterly retarded in the interim, or someone finds a massive skellington in his closet, he'll win in 2012. I absolutely guarantee it. All this talk of the current election is just utter nonsense, it'll have zero bearing in 2 years time; not least because the American public as a whole has a memory span slightly shorter than a goldfish.
Hmm, a bit insulting to the majority of Caucasian Americans who would probably never vote for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar
That said, my only slight dissent is that Obama's constituency has become disengaged and unless he can get to refocus, Obama will still struggle. Especially up against the evil axis of Fox News and the nutty strands of the US conservative (and paranoid) media, especially when set against his relative mediocrity.
I should re-phrase that. I meant right leaning descendents of European's who are angry at their perceived lack of power in America. The Democrats need the Tea party to keep rolling to help Obama mobilise the Dem base. The Clintons who are still hugely popular with independent voters will play a big part in 2012.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
No offence taken. Sorry, that was implied....
Just very uncertain independents will back Obama, based on last week.
I saw the error of my ways Ardeebhoy. My other points about Europeans and European culture are bearing out this week. Proven American surveilleance of Norway and Sweden. It simply would never have happened 20 years ago. It almost beggars belief (for those not living here). I'm not surprised. And I very much doubt they are the only two European Countries under surveilleance.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Anywhere, anyone has a pulse will be under observation, especially like Norway if they have oil....
"What the hell are you talking about? If some immigrants crashed a couple of planes into Dublin, killing thousands, would we pull their ashes out of the fiery wreckage to give them a good kicking before invading Andorra to seize key skiing slopes? .....
I really only have one question for you: are you a troll, or do you really believe this stuff?"
I don't know, I guess I must be a troll who hasn't a clue about what's going on? But speaking of people crashing planes and killing thousands surely you'll be able to educate me on why those people who hijack planes and put bombs in ink cartridges, timed to detonate over the Eastern United States, as was in the news today, do so. Please educate this poor troll.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
In a short sentence: Reactionary response to US interventionism. It doesn't justify it, but it explains it
You need to come up with a better and realistic analogy. And understand the causal factors that drive the extremists in response to the U's overt imperialism.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
Wow there is some serious anti Americanism on here that is very poorly thought out. Hope my friends on Wall Street didn't read about Ireland today it might lead them to actually hate people. Or just to be hateful, in general. Isn't that how not knowing hte facts works?
As for the topic I think Barry Hussein will win in 2012 but Mark Rubio is possibly a very very interesting challenger though he was just elected to Governor last week.
I wouldn't be surprised to see them shelve Joe Biden in favor of someone else (A white woman like Olympia Snow who is technically a Republican) either in 12 months.
And that's my 2 cents.
Or you could just look to see what some Irish-based posters in the US have said ?
An anti-Americanism based on their foreign 'policy', should be resisted wherever possible given their continual and usually unnecessary control-freakery. Who cares what Wall Street thinks anyway.
And Rubio is just another Tea Party apologist and cretin to boot. If he's the answer, may a higher power help us all....