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Originally Posted by
Lionel Ritchie
But it'd be a low business if he walked out on the IFA now -not that I expect him to
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There'll still be plenty from both sides of the community turning out for the IFA, regardless of the doom prophets who make this phenomenon out to be something new, and there'll still be the odd player from either side of the community who turns south
Agreed on both counts.
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Originally Posted by
backtowalsall
He has, in fairness, made a good point, though not the one he thought he was making. Just because someone is called Ferguson, or is from Larne, or drinks Tennants, or played rugby at school, or whatever else, we shouldn't be treating them any differently
No, you should be treating them differently if they've already played for Northern Ireland.
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I would argue we should be making a particular effort with the protestant lads, and ladies (No reason whover takes over from Noel King shouldn't benefit as much as anyone else - might be worth giving the job to a northerner actually)
Why would you argue that? Northern Ireland probably isn't the best/ biggest source of players from outside the country: there are likely to be more in England, unlikely to play for them and thus less likely to cause a fuss if they declare for the South. Of course I realise that this is a welcome PR bonus for the FAI, and an enjoyable running gag on here. Until everyone gets bored, there'll be a speculative thread about every NI youth prospect/ Englishman with plauslbly Gaelic-sounding name etc. etc.
There is a natural limit to the benefit of reaching out to the fourth green field and all that. It's largely about numbers and scale. There are obviously only 11 places in any team, so not all decent players will get caps, even at youth level. While NI's smaller size and thus player pool mean we're more likely to award full caps early. I doubt Staunton (or Trap, or Kerr, or McCarthy) would have put in the 18 year old Jonny Evans out of position against Spain, say.
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Originally Posted by Ardee Bhoy
As for Darron Gibson or family, potentially being in the DUP ( ;) ), not sure you would find too many of his surname in that fraternity
Gibson is a common Prod/ Unionist surname in NI, as Lionel suggested. I knew quite a few at school, for example.
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Though would go more with Btw's stance that we offer a more realistic chance of making Finals (or just missing out!), especially in the light of the uncompromising attitude of the more paranoid about freedom of choice....
I doubt it has much to do with either. These guys want to play for the Republic because they support you. Although in any given tournament, NI will start less likely to qualify than the South, it's the difference between hardly ever and slightly less so in recent memory. And even if your boys (or ours) put together another 80s/ early 90s squad that challenges regularly, that will simply mean that it's stronger and thus more difficult to get into.
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Originally Posted by
youngirish
Until very, very recently the IFA made absolutely no effort to appeal to the large non unionist minority in Northern Ireland
Harsh on the IFA and NI fans, YI. Football for All is long- and well-established.
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in fact it's symbolism, anthem and a large section of it's support would actively have discouraged such support from this minority (and still do to a point)
Rather a roundabout argument this. Its "symbolism" is largely that it exists, therefore those who think it shouldn't will be discouraged from it. Look through similar threads in the index, and you'll see that many of the NI-based Republic fans have said repeatedly that the flag/ anthem/ stadium location/ muriels etc. etc. are not important in their lack of support for NI. It's because they support the South.
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Seriously do you really think many Catholic or Nationalist children growing up in NI would have been attracted in any way to supporting the NI team after witnessing the sectarian abuse in Windsor in 93 thrown at the ROI team and it's fans?
I think nationalist kids are attracted to supporting the Republic because broadly that's what nationalist kids before them did for generations. Fine. If some of them want to support NI as well or instead, equally fine. Whule not condoning any intimidation at that game 17 years ago I doubt it's the factor you suggest.
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Of course in the past many Catholic and/or Nationalist players born in the North that may have felt little association with the NI team may still have chosen to play for them
Of course this might be just vague speculation on your part. Nobody forces anyone to play international football. So I think the default assumption is that anyone who does is proud to.
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as there was little appeal in switching to the ROI team at the time due to the controversy and possible unpleasant consequences in a personal sense that such a decision may have generated
There's not much evidence for this, is there? Alan Kernaghan got some stick from the terraces, but nothing he wouldn't have been used to in club football.
What unpleasantness were you thinking of? Digs in the press? Photoshopped banners (or the old tech equivalent)? Kneecappings in the IFA's romper room?
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and let's also not forget that NI had been, up until that point, by far the more succesful of the two teams in International competitions
I think you flatter us. In the long-term, we've had one blue period from 1980-86; yours more recent and slightly longer-standing from 1986-1994. Both before and since we've both been pretty mediocre.
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As for throwing that old sectarian argument into the mix you'll need to have your own house in order for a long time first before bringing that elephant into the proverbial room
If the FAI were sectarian (they aren't), it would be entirely reasonable for the IFA like anyone else to criticise, whatever their own faults. And vice-versa.
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you'd find it highly unlikely that many protestants born in Wicklow or Dublin would be eager to switch to play for the Northern Ireland if they were involved in the ROI youth setup so I think the FAI (and Irish state as a whole I might add) have done quite well in integrating the state's religious minorities into it's framework since it's existence thank you very much
You're welcome. As a (non) religious minority member (atheist) who lived in the Republic of Ireland, I had no difficulty whatever in integrating into the framework. Yes, the pubs oddly closed for an hour every lunchtime and you couldn't turn on the TV news without seeing some bloke with a halo going Bong!, but those were minor quirs and hardly an incovenience. That said, even in the early 80s it was widely accepted that the RC Church was a) declining in influence and b) supported in its institutional corruption by the state. All parts of a wider issue, of course.
The basic difference is that unionists in the South were a small minority who accepted the Free State/ Republic; nationalists in NI a larger one who didn't.
If a kid in Wicklow (or anywhere) is dually qualified for the Republic and NI or anyone else, there are obvious reasons repeatedly detailed why he might choose the other. I wouldn't get too het up about it.
