what starting 11 should be....

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

I'd say its Holland alright. He's the only one really aside from McAteer that would have cause to be unhappy

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I'd say its either Holland or Given. Given apparently couldn't believe that anyone could walk out on Ireland (that's how he allegedly saw it before it all kicks off again!) plus he's close to Packie Bonner who felt the sharp end of Keane's tongue in Saipan. He has stated that he'd accept it if Keane came back, but wasn't exactly rushing to greet him with open arms. Whatever about Holland, I don't think we can afford to keep Shay's nose out of joint for too long so I hope that if he is disconcerted with the whole thing that Keane makes some kind of peace gesture. Maybe like not screaming at him in training :)

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

where was that guy plastic paddy that said watch miller tonight, Well i did watch him and he was average but i still think he will come good.

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:D

Not one of his better games, but he still managed to lay on a few excellent passes (e.g. the one through to Joos Valgaeren from which the big man should have scored) and will, if he can stay clear of injury, go on to establish himself in the Ireland side.

:) PP

Given

Carr, Cunningham, O' Brien, O' Shea

A Reid, Miller, Keane, Duff

Keane, Morrisson

SubS/Squad:

Kenny,

Finnan,Harte,Dunne,Docherty

Kilbane,S Reid,Holland,Delap,McPhail

Lee,Connolly


That midfield looks strong, leave Roy do the cleaning up game and Miller has got the engine Roy had a few years ago so he can do the box to box job.

Team VS Cyprus 4th Sept '04
Given

Carr Cunningham(c) O' Brien O' Shea

A. Reid Keano Miller/Kilbane Duffer

Robbie Keane Morrisson

Subs:
1 Kenny
2 Finnan
3 Harte
4 Lee
5 Holland
6 Docherty - Able to play def/att so great for a sub!
7 Miller/Kilbane

By this time I believe Miller and Reid would have proved themselves if they are goona prove themselves which I believe they will!!!

4-1-2-1-2

GK- given
lb - finnan
rb - carr
cb - cunnigham
cb - o'shea
lm - reid
rm - miller
cm - keane
am - duff
fwd - keane
fwd - morrison

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Originally Posted by Footie_Fan

How can you judge him on twelve appearances when he has possibly another eighty ahead of him?

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I can only go by what I see and what I get told by other people.
Besides, I still think Harte's a better player. Give O'Shea a few years.

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Originally Posted by brendy_éire

I can only go by what I see and what I get told by other people.
Besides, I still think Harte's a better player. Give O'Shea a few years.

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O'Shea has had a poor season for Man Utd. He looks low on confidence and has been struggling to match his performances of last year. When he's played in the middle of the defence, he looks very suspect and Utd don't play him there at all anymore.

Having said that, he's a decent defender when he plays on the left. And he's a lot more reliable from a defensive point of view that Harte. Plus, when he does venture forward, he can look quite good. We should have enough attacking options from our midfield to cope without Harte. And for games against France, we'll need good defensive capability.

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Originally Posted by brendy_éire

I can only go by what I see and what I get told by other people.
Besides, I still think Harte's a better player. Give O'Shea a few years.

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As I have said right now on current form it would be Harte starting because of O'Sheas poor form but long term he is a much better option than the defensive liability that is Harte. He is a decent player to have on the bench attacking wise but his defending just isn't up to scratch.

Given

Carr Cunningham O'Brien O'Shea

Finnan Miller Roy Keane Duff

Morrison Robbie Keane

with Andy Reid and Colin Healy when he comes back from injury all near the team aswell.

Here's my team:

Given

Finnan
O'Brien
Cunningham
O'Shea

Carr (Best attacking full back in England, can be a world class midfielder)
Miller / Andy Ried (They will learn fast beside The Great Man)
Roy Keane (c)
Duff

Keane
Morrison

Anyone who doesn't have Roy Keane in their team does not care if the Irish team win and should not be allowd to call themselves a fan.

Like I said before Finnan and Carr must both play, they are both head and shoulders above every other right back in the Priemership.

Miller and Ried deserve a chance to prove themselves.

The dead wood (Kilbane, Holland, Breen, Harte, Carsley) who couldn't cut the mustard in the Euro 2004 qualifiers do not deserve places on the 1st team.

And finally, a question for Plastic Paddy, why do you support the Irish soccer team? It would appear to me that you don't actually care if we achieve any kind of success?

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Originally Posted by carnstien

Anyone who doesn't have Roy Keane in their team does not care if the Irish team win and should not be allowd to call themselves a fan.

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:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by carnstien

And finally, a question for Plastic Paddy, why do you support the Irish soccer team? It would appear to me that you don't actually care if we achieve any kind of success?

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Err, because I'm Irish? :rolleyes:

You base your assertion on the flimsiest of evidence, son. Show me where I've said that I'm not ambitious for my team. Just don't try holding your breath while you look for that quote.

:) PP

I'm going to position Reid on the right of midfield but I'd more or less give him a free role. This is my team against Cyprus, Faroes, and Isreal:

_______________________Given_____________________

Carr________Cunningham________O'Brien________Finna n

A.Reid________Keane_________Kavanagh________Duffer

________________Keane_________Lee_______________

Team v's France and Swizz:

_______________________Given_____________________

Carr________Cunningham________O'Brien________O'She a

Finnan________Keane_________Kavanagh________Duffer

_____________Keane_________Morrison/Lee___________

Here are the reasons. The back 4 in the top team would be my first choice as I feel the jury is out on O'Shea who has yet to impress me in a green shirt. Finnan is just as comfortable with his left foot so would do well on the left.

I'd have Lee up front because Duff and Reid would average about 10-20 crosses between them in a match against the smaller teams and Lee is bound to get on the end of a few. Doc was our top scorer for the Euro qualifers because of his height. From what I've seen of Lee, he is just as good with his head and a lot better than Doc with the ball at his feet. Lee is probably not as good with his feet as Morrison (who isn't the best either TBH) but his goals and assists with the head could prove vital.

The midfield in the first team is what I would consider the best. Reid and Duff being the creators, Keane the holding player and Kavanagh the box to box. Kav and Keane could be something special and won't let too many players pass them.

When we are playing against France and the Swizz we won't be allowed attack as much and will have to attack on the break (we could learn a lot from Villerreal :) ). Therefore, Reid will most likely get caught out down the right and Carr isn't the best under pressure. Finnan will be a better option on the right of midfield when we face the bigger teams with O'Shea at LB.

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Originally Posted by Plastic Paddy

:rolleyes:



Err, because I'm Irish? :rolleyes:

You base your assertion on the flimsiest of evidence, son. Show me where I've said that I'm not ambitious for my team. Just don't try holding your breath while you look for that quote.

:) PP

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Well I believe that you said that you would not have a player, who has indisputably been the most influentual certral midfielder in world football over the last 10 years, in the Irish team, because you don't like him. When there are no alternative players who even come close to this man in terms of footballing ability, not having him in the team (because you don't like him personally) is the ultimate display of lack of ambition.

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Originally Posted by carnstien

Well I believe that you said

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Not good enough. Where's the quote in which I say, as per your original accusation, that I don't actually care if we achieve any measure of success?

:rolleyes: PP

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Originally Posted by carnstien

Well I believe that you said that you would not have a player, who has indisputably been the most influentual certral midfielder in world football over the last 10 years, in the Irish team, because you don't like him. When there are no alternative players who even come close to this man in terms of footballing ability, not having him in the team (because you don't like him personally) is the ultimate display of lack of ambition.

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There's a lot more required to represent your nation than just footballing talent.
I place principles before my ambition for success on the field. Success is great when it comes, but does it really matter to the true supporter at the end of the day? What's important is being proud of those who are our representing you. And it doesn't matter if we're 1st and 150th in the world, if the players show commitment and pride when wearing the green jersey, I'll support them.

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Originally Posted by brendy_éire

....I place principles before my ambition for success on the field. Success is great when it comes, but does it really matter to the true supporter at the end of the day? ......, if the players show commitment and pride when wearing the green jersey, I'll support them.

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When has Keane not shown "commitment and pride " on a pitch, playing for club or country?
So support him as you say you will.

I admire your principles, but most teams have players that are going to offend your principles. Players who take drugs, cheat (on and off the pitch), get drunk, jailed, speed, etc. As long as they do what is asked of them on the pitch, then we mortals tend to forgive them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brendy_éire

There's a lot more required to represent your nation than just footballing talent.
I place principles before my ambition for success on the field. Success is great when it comes, but does it really matter to the true supporter at the end of the day? What's important is being proud of those who are our representing you. And it doesn't matter if we're 1st and 150th in the world, if the players show commitment and pride when wearing the green jersey, I'll support them.

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"commitment and pride when wearing the green jersey" - that pretty much sums up Roy Keane, so good to see you will be supporting him.

I disagree that success is not important, in my opinion it is everything. As was already pointed out, EVERY team will have players who are not morally perfect, but at the end of the day we are there to support the team and we should all want them to do as well as they can.

If that means that some of the players are *******, well so be it, most people are *******s anyway. If Damien Duff was the biggest arse-hole on the face of the planted, I would still want him in my team, because when it comes to football he is the best of the best , it shouldn't matter to a fan if he goes home and beats the **** out of his wife every night, what matters to a fan should be what he does on the pitch.

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Originally Posted by carnstien

I disagree that success is not important, in my opinion it is everything. As was already pointed out, EVERY team will have players who are not morally perfect, but at the end of the day we are there to support the team and we should all want them to do as well as they can.

it shouldn't matter to a fan if he goes home and beats the **** out of his wife every night, what matters to a fan should be what he does on the pitch.

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You come across as callow and tremendously naive. And I'm being nice to you. I take it that you're not a parent nor do you work with children or young people in any capacity. Well, wake up, because in many cases these youngsters look to their footballers as role-models if not demigods. Personal conduct of people in the public eye IS important, and that includes our footballers. Do I tell my youngsters that it's OK to denigrate women sexually or physically because they see their heroes do it? No. And that stance, by the way, has nothing to do with lack of ambition or not wanting the team to do well. It's all about taking and accepting personal responsibility, which is far FAR more important than the results of any football match. Ever.

Choose your examples with more care. Or I'll have you for it every time.

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Originally Posted by carnstien

Well I believe that you said

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I'm still waiting for that quote...

:rolleyes: PP

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Originally Posted by liamon

I admire your principles, but most teams have players that are going to offend your principles. Players who take drugs, cheat (on and off the pitch), get drunk, jailed, speed, etc. As long as they do what is asked of them on the pitch, then we mortals tend to forgive them.

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Nobody is 100% morally perfect, obviously. But I want those who are out representing me and my country to take the role seriously. Roy Keane has lied to get out of playing, and in my eyes, needs to apologise before being given the honour of playing for Ireland again.

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Originally Posted by Plastic Paddy

Well, wake up, because in many cases these youngsters look to their footballers as role-models if not demigods.

Do I tell my youngsters that it's OK to denigrate women sexually or physically because they see their heroes do it?

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I would consider Roy Keane to be an excellent role model for any youngster. He came from a tough background and through hard work and determination has become one of the greatest footballers in the world, without ever settling for second best or compremising on his principals.

I never said it was OK to "denigrate women sexually or physically because they see their heroes do it", in fact I picked that example as I would consider it to be the lowest of the low. The point I was trying to make is that I don't care what the hell the players on the Irish team do off the pitch, as long as they well perform on it.