Player eligibility row

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Originally Posted by awec

You mean nationalist youths like Paddy McCourt, Nial McGinn and old day nationalists like Pat Jennings?

Or do you conveniently ignore them as it doesn't fit in with your fantasy of us being a bunch of bigots?

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Ah, you presume too much and play the victim card, the most played but the most resilient card in the deck.
It is well known that Pat Jennings was the subject of vile sectarian abuse from home "fans" behind his goal for years at Windsor Pk. It is also well know that Pat had no choice as to what representative team he chose. And Pat has also made known his desire for an AI team on many occasions and yet he has no problem with working for the IFA
Pat is a professional and rose above the petty bigotry thrown at him, the credit for doing that is his, not the supporters. I have no doubt he was proud to represent NI in football, likewise many other professional players from nationalist background, but if Pat had a choice like MON he in all likliehood would have chosen the Republic.
Re McGinn and McCourt, I have no doubt they are honoured to be considered for the NI team and more power to them.
They are not playing for my team but it is their choice.
Irish people born in the North have demanded their right to automatic Irish citizenship be a large important part of the peace agreement.
There is a choice for Irish citizens born in the 6 counties as to what representative team they want to be considered for. It is a choice which has been scrutinised in fine detail detail by FIFA legal dept and the FIFA executive for many months in 2007 and 2008.
FIFA have not deviated one bit from enshrining the right of Irish citizens born on the Island to choose their representative team and switching is subject to the normal FIFA restrictions.
If you don't even slightly cop on to one of the most obvious factors - the GSTQ thing, you will never understand why the OWC identity thing (with the supporters) will be in the main composed by a vast majority by Unionists. The fact that some nationalist footballers play for NI does not change that. The fact that they can play in WP and not be the subject of vile abuse is very welcome.

I can understand the hurt being felt by NI fans and authorities about young Duffy's decision. However the question they have to ask is why is there a steady stream of young players from their area crossing the border and joining the FAI teams. They are not being offered anything financial or materialistic to come across. Most are probably not even been actively persued. The reason is that these kids have an affinity with the ROI team. What the IFA need to do is to try and entice the nationalist population to support the NI team. I don't know how they will manage to do such a thing but until they do this is going to continue to happen.

As regards remarks about the ROI team using English rejects, ect, well everybody is doing it. Most Eastern European teams now have a resident Brazilian in their team. Its just the way it is and people have to continue to develop their teams within the guildelines of the rules.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Irish people born in the North have demanded their right to automatic Irish citizenship be a large important part of the peace agreement.
There is a choice for Irish citizens born in the 6 counties as to what representative team they want to be considered for. It is a choice which has been scrutinised in fine detail detail by FIFA legal dept and the FIFA executive for many months in 2007 and 2008.
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Can we get this cleared up once and for all. The eligibility of players has NOTHING to do with the GFA or any peace agreements.

A point that shouldn't be forgotten here is that Duffy did have trials with us but the IFA came in and offered him greater opportunities for progression on the international stage. Duffy, who btw is still only 18 years of age, was subsequently fast-tracked through the NI underage teams and called into their senior squad for last year's friendly with Italy. While Duffy is without question a talented prospect within the game, his fast progression through the NI ranks had a secondary motivation; namely, to stop him playing for us. Indeed Nigel & Co. admitted as much when Duffy was included in the senior squad for the Italy game. While NI fans may feel aggreived that Duffy has come through their underage ranks only to declare for us, the IFA were well aware of Duffy's background, eligibility and desire to play for us.

Anyways I'm confused as to why the IFA decide to include Duffy's name in the squad for the glamour friendly against Albania, knowing full well that Duffy had made himself unavailable a week to up to 3 weeks in advance. This is all the more confusing in the context of Nigel Worthlesston's comments that "it is a ludicrous situation which needs to be resolved".

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Originally Posted by Mr_Parker

Can we get this cleared up once and for all. The eligibility of players has NOTHING to do with the GFA or any peace agreements.

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How is not relevant? It's not relevant in the case of Duffy, who's father is from Donegal, and qualifies for a passport through him.
Under the GFA, anyone born on the island of Ireland is entitled to a Republic of Ireland passport, regardless of where they, their parents, their grandparents were born. Under FIFA statutes, you must qualify for a passport for a country in order to represent that country at international football.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

How is not relevant? It's not relevant in the case of Duffy, who's father is from Donegal, and qualifies for a passport through him.
Under the GFA, anyone born on the island of Ireland is entitled to a Republic of Ireland passport, regardless of where they, their parents, their grandparents were born. Under FIFA statutes, you must qualify for a passport for a country in order to represent that country at international football.

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Excatly. How is not revelant. The GFA is what changed everything, well in my opinion anyway

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

How is not relevant? It's not relevant in the case of Duffy, who's father is from Donegal, and qualifies for a passport through him.
Under the GFA, anyone born on the island of Ireland is entitled to a Republic of Ireland passport, regardless of where they, their parents, their grandparents were born. Under FIFA statutes, you must qualify for a passport for a country in order to represent that country at international football.

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Originally Posted by Deckydee

Excatly. How is not revelant. The GFA is what changed everything, well in my opinion anyway

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I'll try to explain in simple terms. Before the GFA could an Irishman born in the north play for Ireland? Answer, yes.

Shane Duffy's birthplace is what qualifies him, not his fathers.

Fifa Statute 15 refers to nationality, not passports.

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Originally Posted by Mr_Parker

I'll try to explain in simple terms. Before the GFA could an Irishman born in the north play for Ireland? Answer, yes.

Shane Duffy's birthplace is what qualifies him, not his fathers.

Fifa Statute 15 refers to nationality, not passports.

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only if that player had parents or grandparents born within the Republic, which would qualify him for a passport.
As I stated, it doesn't apply in Duffy's case because his father is from Donegal, but it does apply in the case of Gibson.

In future the GFA is going to become more and more relevant for players born in the North, but who want to play for the Republic.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

only if that player had parents or grandparents born within the Republic, which would qualify him for a passport.
As I stated, it doesn't apply in Duffy's case because his father is from Donegal, but it does apply in the case of Gibson.

In future the GFA is going to become more and more relevant for players born in the North, but who want to play for the Republic.

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I fear you are reading the wrong section. Please go and read the Statutes again. Section VI Article 15.


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I'll save you the bother

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Any person holding a permanent nationality that is not dependent
on residence in a certain country is eligible to play for the
representative teams of the Association of that country.

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Simple? Clear?

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Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

I think it's only fair we do a swap. How about Northern Ireland receiving McShane? I promise I won't spit my dummy out.

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You took the words out of my mouth. Sure we could even throw Steven Ireland in aswell as a good will gesture!!!!

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Originally Posted by Mr_Parker

I fear you are reading the wrong section. Please go and read the Statutes again. Section VI Article 15.


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I'll save you the bother

Simple? Clear?

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if the GFA is irrelevant, then explain to me how a player, born in the North, with no family connection to the Republic in the previous 2 generations, could play for the Republic before the GFA

Eh no we shouldnt

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

if the GFA is irrelevant, then explain to me how a player, born in the North, with no family connection to the Republic in the previous 2 generations, could play for the Republic before the GFA

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Because they were Irish citizens.

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Originally Posted by Mr_Parker

Because they were Irish citizens.

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but they didn't qualify for an Republic of Ireland passport

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

but they didn't qualify for an Republic of Ireland passport

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yes they did

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Originally Posted by awec

You mean nationalist youths like Paddy McCourt, Nial McGinn and old day nationalists like Pat Jennings?

Or do you conveniently ignore them as it doesn't fit in with your fantasy of us being a bunch of bigots?

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No one here can say you are a bunch of biggots, no more that you can say biggotry doesn't exist.

What I don't get, and this goes far back with posts with EG, is if the ruling is in place (evolving out of any number of political/religious historical issues all discussed here in depth), why are the IFA targeting the rule itself rather than the the reason the players are leaving in the first place?? I honestly don't understand it.

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Originally Posted by dantheman

yes they did

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how?
Once again, born in the North, no parents or grandparents born in the Republic. How did they qualify for a Republic of Ireland passport before the GFA?

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

how?
Once again, born in the North, no parents or grandparents born in the Republic. How did they qualify for a Republic of Ireland passport before the GFA?

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I'm no expert on the GFA agreement and to be perfectly honest have little interest in politics let alone Northern Irish politics but prior to the GFA agreement the Irish constitution lay claim to Northern Ireland. And btw there's no such thing as a Republic of Ireland passport ;).

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

but they didn't qualify for an Republic of Ireland passport

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Maybe you should go and read the FIFA Statutes in full afterall. (a wee read of the Irish Constitution pre and post the GFA wouldn't go amiss either) A passport is not a FIFA requirement for eligibility, nationality is. And anyway as dantheman points points out below, they were entitled to one.

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Originally Posted by dantheman

yes they did

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Thank you.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

how?
Once again, born in the North, no parents or grandparents born in the Republic. How did they qualify for a Republic of Ireland passport before the GFA?

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I had a Irish passport years before the GFA, pretty sure parents grandparents born in the north, Grandparents probably pre partition but pretty sure it would not of mattered. As has been stated before the GFA has nothing to do with the the right of somebody in the north to have a passport