Negative Media

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Originally Posted by Metrostars

Someone should remind Dunphy that Andy Reid started against France and the final game against Switzerland in 2005 and how many goals did we score then?

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He also started in what was Stan's last game against Cyprus in Croke Park which proved to be the final nail in the coffin of Stan.

For something like 90 minutes we huffed and puffed against the might of, wait for it, Cyprus, with the great Andy Reid pulling the strings in midfield. We eventually got a goal from a defender in the last minute or two which was probably not deserved.

And if this guy cannot drive Ireland from the centre of the park to a convincing win over Cyprus at home, then what hope has he against the French in Paris? None.

But these are realities the pundits would rather ignore. The longer Reid is out of the team, the better he gets in their mind. But the reality is Reid was part of the least effective attacking and defensive Irish team in a generation. And he will not give us the defensive steel we need against creative teams in the centre of the park. As a wide player maybe, but not the centre of the park.

Andrews and Whelan impressed me against France on Saturday and both proved more useful in that role than I think Whelan would ever be. Whelan was good at breaking up play and Andrews imposed himself a lot. A passer of the ball is good if you have a team capable of using posession well, we don't so I think Andy in the centre would be a bit of a luxury that would hurt us more than it'd help us.

On the wing he'd be a good call but the way Lawrence and Duff performed on Saturday I don't think Reid would be significantly better.

I would however like the option of him as a number 10 or the head of a 5 man midfield. Keane and Doyle are very rarely brought into the game so I sometimes wonder if we're wasting men having both of them up there doing nothing.

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Originally Posted by Emmet7

He also started in what was Stan's last game against Cyprus in Croke Park which proved to be the final nail in the coffin of Stan.

For something like 90 minutes we huffed and puffed against the might of, wait for it, Cyprus, with the great Andy Reid pulling the strings in midfield. We eventually got a goal from a defender in the last minute or two which was probably not deserved.

And if this guy cannot drive Ireland from the centre of the park to a convincing win over Cyprus at home, then what hope has he against the French in Paris? None.

But these are realities the pundits would rather ignore. The longer Reid is out of the team, the better he gets in their mind. But the reality is Reid was part of the least effective attacking and defensive Irish team in a generation. And he will not give us the defensive steel we need against creative teams in the centre of the park. As a wide player maybe, but not the centre of the park.

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So did 10 other players but let’s blame poor old Andy for it. Ireland were a shambles under Stan. Although a very intelligent player Reid at the time was unprofessional in regard to his physical state. He is a different player now still intelligent but much better physically. I would loved to have seen him come off the bench on Saturday and be available as an option on Wednesday. I am sure that he would have contributed much more than Hunt or McGeady when they made an appearance.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Thats RTE fulfilling what they regard as their duty to the license holders by catering for the punditry needs of the rabble.
"Steven Reid, a good honest lad and a patriot who must be heartbroken at his home in Blackburn while Trap continues to callously ignore him...."
cue for a few tears to well up in Eamon's eyes as his voice trembles coping with the infinite compassion pouring out from the heart of the self proclaimed man of the people.

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what i cant understand (or maybe i should know better) is how little research the interviewer has done to respond with facts to such drivel?

guys,guys, i cant believe you all having a go at the expert analysis of GILESY and DUNPH ,after all they were the ones to tell us PAUL JEWELL ticked all the right boxs:eek:.....speaking of which where IS paul jewell.:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by FarBeag

So did 10 other players but let’s blame poor old Andy for it. Ireland were a shambles under Stan. Although a very intelligent player Reid at the time was unprofessional in regard to his physical state. He is a different player now still intelligent but much better physically. I would loved to have seen him come off the bench on Saturday and be available as an option on Wednesday. I am sure that he would have contributed much more than Hunt or McGeady when they made an appearance.

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I know what we will get from Andy Reid and anyone who has watched him for any length of time knows what we will get. You will get a guy who will try a few dinky passes. They may get through to Doyle and Keane, they may not. If they do get through or they don't eventually Andy Reid will have to face an opposing team on the attack. And that's where Andy Reid's weakness is, defending and breaking down other team's attacks. If people think we were overrun on Saturday, we would have been simply mauled with Andy Reid in the team.

He has no physical presence whatsoever, it's not his fault. The French would walk through midfield and rather than the 2 or 3 half chances they had on Saturday night, it's likely they'd have 9 or 10 solid scoring chances coming through the middle of the park.

I think if we were all honest, the reason the French only scored one was due largely to our defensive midfielders and Trap's defensive system.

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Originally Posted by FarBeag

So did 10 other players but let’s blame poor old Andy for it. Ireland were a shambles under Stan. Although a very intelligent player Reid at the time was unprofessional in regard to his physical state. He is a different player now still intelligent but much better physically. I would loved to have seen him come off the bench on Saturday and be available as an option on Wednesday. I am sure that he would have contributed much more than Hunt or McGeady when they made an appearance.

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Agreed we were a joke under Stan apart from a few players whose individual brilliance shone through, the usual few such as Dunne and Given.

Andy Reid's individual brilliance certainly didn't shine through because he clearly and blatently failed to impose himself against Cyrpus, a team who have never qualified for a major international championship.

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Originally Posted by Emmet7

He also started in what was Stan's last game against Cyprus in Croke Park which proved to be the final nail in the coffin of Stan.

For something like 90 minutes we huffed and puffed against the might of, wait for it, Cyprus, with the great Andy Reid pulling the strings in midfield. We eventually got a goal from a defender in the last minute or two which was probably not deserved

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Emmet man seriously, what did Reid actually do to you? it's fine thinking he wouldn't add much to the Irish team, it's fine thinking he's overrated, it's fine thinking he's lazy and a defensive liability but blaming him, exclusively, for poor Irish performances when the whole teams was a shambles is just f**king thick.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

Emmet man seriously, what did Reid actually do to you? it's fine thinking he wouldn't add much to the Irish team, it's fine thinking he's overrated, it's fine thinking he lazy and a defensive liability but blaming him, exclusively, for poor Irish performances when the whole teams was a shambles is just f**king thick.

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Basically I am sick of hearing Andy Reid is the new Pele or the new Maradona.

He is an average player playing in a mid table Sunderland side.

Anyone who thinks Andy Reid would make Ireland a better team is thick and deluded too.

So many people have been hoodwinked by "experts" who are driving an agenda to get Trap out. The same losers who were failed managers and failed players. Why would you take your lead from failed managers and failed players?

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Originally Posted by Emmet7

So many people have been hoodwinked by experts who are driving an agenda to get Trap out. The same losers who were failed managers and failed players. Why would you take your lead from failed managers and failed players?

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Have you that little respect for people on here that you think we're all innocently led by the media, and that we don't base our opinions on what we see for ourselves?

People who think A.R. would cause problems for a French midfield and defence who are comprised of international world class and champions league players are deluded.

He'd spend the entire night chasing their shadows, everyone with half a brain knows that. This is not Cyprus or Georgia, this is France a team of world class players who'd make mince meat of A. R.

I think A. R. should be lucky he's not in the team, as his status grows while he is out. Stick him in and he'd be cut to pieces.

Getting bac to the original point (Giles/Dunphy), I think its right that they are on the way out. I was watching Scotland Wales on Staurday and thought, that's where we'd be if any of the other candidates were given the Ireland job. Trap has taken our weakest set of players since the mid 70's to the play offs. The idea that this is a disgraceful failure is insane.

The way the groups have wored out we either have to put Italy or france out to get to the world Cup. No-one outside Ireland would believe the coverage on Irish TV. It was taken as read that it was a crap performance and that the only question was why it had been allowed to happen.

The 3 panellists on RTe between them wouldnt have got Ireland into the playoffs.

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Originally Posted by Emmet7

People who think A.R. would cause problems for a French midfield and defence who are comprised of international world class and champions league players are deluded.

He'd spend the entire night chasing their shadows, everyone with half a brain knows that. This is not Cyprus or Georgia, this is France a team of world class players who'd make mince meat of A. R.

I think A. R. should be lucky he's not in the team, as his status grows while he is out. Stick him in and he'd be cut to pieces.

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As opposed to Man Utd and Liverpool who have poor defences and midfields, who A.R. held his own against.

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Originally Posted by Emmet7

People who think A.R. would cause problems for a French midfield and defence who are comprised of international world class and champions league players are deluded.

He'd spend the entire night chasing their shadows, everyone with half a brain knows that. This is not Cyprus or Georgia, this is France a team of world class players who'd make mince meat of A. R.

I think A. R. should be lucky he's not in the team, as his status grows while he is out. Stick him in and he'd be cut to pieces.

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You are right Emmet on you assessment of A R .You know why? Because you believe you are right and what I have highlighted in your own post. End of.

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Originally Posted by Emmet7

People who think A.R. would cause problems for a French midfield and defence who are comprised of international world class and champions league players are deluded.

He'd spend the entire night chasing their shadows, everyone with half a brain knows that. This is not Cyprus or Georgia, this is France a team of world class players who'd make mince meat of A. R.

I think A. R. should be lucky he's not in the team, as his status grows while he is out. Stick him in and he'd be cut to pieces.

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I'm not hoodwinked by anyone's opinion in the media, but I do think Reid would at least offer us another option off the bench. At least. If Reid isn't capable of doing anything against a team composed of "international world class and champions league players" then why should we bother? Can Duff, Lawrence, McGeady and Hunt really do that? Obviously any decent team is going to destroy us by that logic.

Anyway, besides the Reid point, I'm fully behind Trapattoni and the players on the field and always have been. I just don't like it when people claim that anyone who thinks Reid should be in the team pays too much attention to the RTE panel.

The negative media doesn't bother me really. It's what the team does on the pitch that counts. We have a fair chance to turn the result in Croke Park around and that's what matters. We were the better team in the first half of the game and were unlucky not to score. Anything could happen in Paris.

The media waffle is just that and it won't change how the lads feel about playing the second leg in Paris.

With regard to Dunphy and Giles, I respect their opinions. Dunphy often makes germane points if you look past his hyperbole and Giles does likewise. Besides, what's the problem? It would be boring and wrong if they all agreed that Trapattoni was doing a fantastic job and that his system has absolutely no flaws. They provide a bit of entertainment if nothing else!

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Originally Posted by Predator

They provide a bit of entertainment if nothing else!

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The problem is that they are supposed to be doing analysis, not stand-up. They've become an absolute parody lately.

If they want to be entertainers, that's fine, but they'll need to come up with some new material instead of the same tired old sh*t after every game.

-no Andy Reid, wah wah wah
-can't keep the ball, wah wah wah

The fact that Graeme Souness, one of the most derided and mocked managers in Britain, is the voice of reason on that panel should tell you all that you need to know.

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Originally Posted by irishfan86

The problem is that they are supposed to be doing analysis, not stand-up. They've become an absolute parody lately.

If they want to be entertainers, that's fine, but they'll need to come up with some new material instead of the same tired old sh*t after every game.

-no Andy Reid, wah wah wah
-can't keep the ball, wah wah wah

The fact that Graeme Souness, one of the most derided and mocked managers in Britain, is the voice of reason on that panel should tell you all that you need to know.

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wouldnt agree with that..
there are plenty worse out there.

at newcastle especially he was alwayd doomed to failure. and did a good job at blackburn before that (i think his most recent is the most appropriate to consider)

i think souness coms across really well on the show

There hasn't been much different game-to-game, so you can't expect them to analyse what hasn't happened in the game. They're right; we can't keep the ball and we don't have Andy Reid in the squad. Trap's approach to the games has been the same and we've performed similarly throughout the campaign - there won't be much variation in analysis to be fair.

The basic premise of Giles and Dunphy is simple.

Sacrifice one of your defensive midfielders for another attacking midfielder. Someone said that Reid is good for Sunderland and one of the reasons is he has strong aggressive ball winners up front who will give any defence including Man Utd problems.

Another issue here and what people are missing is players like Kenwen Jones play very well at club level but put them into an international arena against top defences and not just the Man Utd defence which with Ferdinand and Vidic has been poor this season, and they get shown up to be average.

It's the same with A.R., looks well in the premiership, gets badly exposed against Champions League players.

I wouldn't have Andy Reid in any Ireland team. We'd be cut to pieces without any doubt. Only an idiot would put him in the centre of the park for Ireland. We'd have been hammered by Italy had he been playing on both occassions, because he would have played exactly like Andy Keogh, nice going forward, horrendous when called on to defend.

Andy Reid is a walking defensive mistake waiting to happen. His fans are still ignoring his schoolboy error which allowed Keane score against Sunderland, with A. R. playing as a central midfielder.

If Robbie Keane can exploit Andy Reid's hopeless defensive midfield abilities, can you imagine what Henry and Anelka would do.

Cut to pieces we would be with A. R. in the side. Trap knows it, I know it, his fans know it, Giles and Dunphy know it. But for them that's beside the point, Reid serves as a convienent stick to beat Trap with. It's just a pity Giles and Dunphy never really had the courage of their convictions and actually tried to manage a team at a top level for any considerable length of time. Maybe they did but found eventually, that no-one wanted to hire them as managers.

Instead they retreated to the relative safety of studio pundit where they could fantacise about this player and that player and make judgements about situations in which they would never have to face the consequences, kind of like playing soccer on a playstation, if they make the wrong decisions and get it wrong, no-one will lose their job or money or anything or Ireland won't fail to qualify.

Trap however has never had to rely on being a studio pundit to earn his crust, such is the high demand he has been in. He has spent his whole career at the coalface and standing on the side line making real decisions, not fantascising in a studio.

Andy Reid belongs to an era of Irish soccer which was a shambles. Boozing in the week of games, staying out half the night, wasn't that one of the reasons for the Saipan saga and Dunphy's faux outrage at lack of discipline in the Irish camp and the perception that preparation for important upcoming games were a shambles.

Trap comes in and imposes strict discipline and now we have the same Dunphy outraged that a player has become a victim of that strict discipline, although must suspect it's because Reid doesn't fit into Trap's football plans. So what do we want? Do we want a return to the shambles of old with no discipline or cohesion. Or do we want discipline and cohesion?