Don't mean to be negative....

I agree with Arnold. We were completely toothless in attacking last night and we will be again in Paris.

I'd hate to see the Keane-Doyle partnership start again as it is completely ineffectual and easily containable.

We need a more direct route and while I'd prefer to see Folan playing he is injured so Best might be the only alternative. It doesn't matter that he is not skillful. We just need to aim the ball for him and hope Robbie gets a couple of breaks. Playing it into Kevin Doyle's feet has produced no real chance of note in about 200 minutes of playing against the Italians and French and it won't produce anything in Paris either as all a defender has to do is put in a leg and clear the ball away.

It's much harder for defenders to play against a high ball and a big muscular forward than when the ball is played into feet. If we start with the same attacking format as we did last night, it's game over, ending in more than likely a 0 - 0 draw or maybe the French turning it on and scoring a couple of goals.

Jesus what game were you watching Emmet, it was all high ball up to Doyle, and he won a hell of a lot of them. To suggest dropping Doyle for Best is bloody daft, I wish we had eleven Doylers

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Originally Posted by Fizzer

Jesus what game were you watching Emmet, it was all high ball up to Doyle, and he won a hell of a lot of them. To suggest dropping Doyle for Best is bloody daft, I wish we had eleven Doylers

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Doyle doesn't score against top international teams whether he is rusty or not match fit after injury. The partnership also doesn't deliver goals against top teams nor against average teams like Bulgaria or Montenegro for that matter.

If our forwards can't score against Bulgaria or Montenegro and not create one solid chance between them against Italy twice and France once then that partnership needs changing.

I like Doyle but his job is to score goals. He is not a target man, he's too small for that and his 'flick-ons' are unpredictable. Caleb Folan and Best are far far better target men. Asking Doyle to be target man is too much. Either leave him or Keane on and put on Best, but don't leave both on.

With Folan as target man in Bari we were able to produce 4 or 5 solid scoring chances, many falling to Keane, one of whom he scored and he could have scored a few more. It's blatently obvious the Doyle-Keane partnership is not producing chances. I can't think of one solid chance that came last night from Keane-Doyle interplay. I can't think of one chance in the two Italian games that came from Keane-Doyle interplay. They aren't scoring goals, but far worse they aren't coming with a mile of creating a chance to score goals.

It's just not working and if they start together again in Paris, you might as well hand the tie to the French.

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Originally Posted by Emmet7

Doyle doesn't score against top international teams whether he is rusty or not match fit after injury. The partnership also doesn't deliver goals against top teams nor against average teams like Bulgaria or Montenegro for that matter.

If our forwards can't score against Bulgaria or Montenegro and not create one solid chance between them against Italy twice and France once then that partnership needs changing.

I like Doyle but his job is to score goals. He is not a target man, he's too small for that and his 'flick-ons' are unpredictable. Caleb Folan and Best are far far better target men. Asking Doyle to be target man is too much. Either leave him or Keane on and put on Best, but don't leave both on.

With Folan as target man in Bari we were able to produce 4 or 5 solid scoring chances, many falling to Keane, one of whom he scored and he could have scored a few more. It's blatently obvious the Doyle-Keane partnership is not producing chances. I can't think of one solid chance that came last night from Keane-Doyle interplay. I can't think of one chance in the two Italian games that came from Keane-Doyle interplay. They aren't scoring goals, but far worse they aren't coming with a mile of creating a chance to score goals.

It's just not working and if they start together again in Paris, you might as well hand the tie to the French.

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How many feckin goals has Leon Best scored?

Its a pity Folan is injured (he is isn't he) as I believe the French defenders would have a hard job counteracting him for headers and flick ons.
Mind you with flick ons there is an element of luck involved but there is nothing wrong with being lucky.

Doyle and Keane's jobs, in addition to scoring goals, are to be the first line of defence. Doyle is a defenders nightmare, he closes down their full-backs in possession makes it difficult for them to distribute ball effectively. He's strong and quick and holds the ball up well to bring in our wingers. (I agree Folan also does this well but he's injured and out so why are we talking about him?).

I'd certainly say Doyle's better in one-on-one situations than Best. I'd also prefer to see a ball drop at Doyler's feet in the box than Best's. It's not enough to say that Doyle shouldn't play because him and Keane didn't pass to each other enough. When possible, they passed to Duff or Lawrence and headed for the box. That's good enough for me. We had chances and didn't take them, on another night the result could have been different.

Doyle has to play Emmet, he's the best Irish talent to emerge in recent years and his committment and bravery is inspirational, the tackles he puts in bring me to my feet every time shouting encouragment at him. Best would be nowhere near as effective as him.

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Originally Posted by Nah Nah Nah Nah

How many feckin goals has Leon Best scored?

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Dumb response...

Did I say Best would score. Did I say Folan would score?

How did we score in Bari?

Doyle wasn't even on the fecking pitch when we scored. There's your answer.

Folan created at least 4 solid chances for Keane in the 60 minutes he was on the pitch. The Doyle-Keane parternship hasn't created one scoring chance in all our big games because good defenders find them easy to take care of.

It's clear Andy Reid won't be in the team for Wednesday night, that's a given so we can only work with what we have. And I can assure you the Doyle-Keane partnership in the current system will produce nothing on Wednesday night as it never does against good defences.

We can persist with the industrial Keane-Doyle partnership but it won't get us the goal/goals we need. They will be industrious as always, but they won't produce chances.

Does anyone remember now the long ball game Jack Charlton used to play. Does anyone remember how our great goals in that era came about? Houghtan's goal against England in 88, Quinn's goal against Holland in 90, Houghtan's goal against Italy in 94? They came as a result of long hoofs down the pitch. Even Ronnie Whelan's wonder goal in 1988 came from a long Rory Delap type throw-in.

Yet all those players and teams are legends now and we have great memories of that era.

In 10 years time we won't remember the wonderful industry of Kevin Doyle if we lose in Paris on Wednesday night. It's time to change around our attack to give us some chance and some penetration and muscle up front. Drop Keane behind a front two if need be.

I'd rather we got to South African by playing a different style than fail by satisfying the purists.

A two up front Keane-Doyle partnership will not produce chances in Paris as it hasn't in big games before and it's too easily containable by Champions League defenders.

Dropping Doyle's probably not the answer. The teamplay changes drastically when he's gone, and since we'll probably looking to keep it tight, in the first half at least, he should stay.

Also I think it's overstating it to say we didn't create. Despite having less of the ball we had three nailed on sitters, Keane/Lawrence, O'Shea and Whelan. With far less of the ball, we created more clear cut chances and Lloris had to make two top notch saves.

It's not our creativity that really bothers me, it's our finishing. We have to take every opportunity that comes on Wednesday and we almost never do.

I was trying to think of an example to inspire us: Arsenal 1 Hull City 2 from last season. Total gulf in class, Arsenal went 1-0 up yet a goal from a corner and a good shot won it for Hull after Arsenal had been all fancy & elegant but made no further breakthrough. Sh1t like that happens in football and we're due it to happen to us at least once in my lifetime. What price would that have been in the bookies?

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

(b) We have played better away from home in many of our games than at home.

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Where are people getting this from, just look at the qualifiers, We Drew with Italy at home and away, we Drew with Bulgaria home and away, we beat George and Cyprus home and away and we drew with Montenegro home and away, How is that better,

We have nothing to bring in that will make our attacking play any better, In the very unlikely event that we do score the French can just go up another gear or bring on class from the bench to turn it around,

We have NO chance

It's not going to happen. We will get more of the same in Paris. Plenty of effort and industry. No clinical finishing. Weaknesses in defence which may lead to a French goal. A midfield that will probably tire. Wingers who will play nice football to please the purists but with little in the way of an end product.

France again struggle in the first half but in the second when they settle into the game turn on the style and finish the match quite comfortable as we struggle with our old problems of inability to score from open play.

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Originally Posted by PartySaint

Where are people getting this from, just look at the qualifiers, We Drew with Italy at home and away, we Drew with Bulgaria home and away, we beat George and Cyprus home and away and we drew with Montenegro home and away, How is that better,

We have nothing to bring in that will make our attacking play any better, In the very unlikely event that we do score the French can just go up another gear or bring on class from the bench to turn it around,

We have NO chance

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Remind me to shoot you if we ever have to go into battle together.

Your team talk would be very inspiring. It would probably go like

"Ye are rubish and its only a matter of how much you are going to be beaten by." (might be better if you leave the leadership of men to a man son)

It was best's loss of possesion which led to the goal, he gives the ball away far too ofte
n, not in the same class as Doyle at all. Folan is a viable alternative to Doyle but Best isn't.

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

Remind me to shoot you if we ever have to go into battle together.

Your team talk would be very inspiring. It would probably go like

"Ye are rubish and its only a matter of how much you are going to be beaten by." (might be better if you leave the leadership of men to a man son)

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I don't think that's fair. He is pointing out weaknesses we have. We can either do as the two previous Irish managers did and bury heads in the sand and deny we need to change things or we can leave things the same and watch as we get worse and worse.

We have weaknesses in defence, we have weaknesses in midfield and we have weaknesses in attack. That's blatently apparant and to deny that will not fix the problem.

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

Remind me to shoot you if we ever have to go into battle together.

Your team talk would be very inspiring. It would probably go like

"Ye are rubish and its only a matter of how much you are going to be beaten by." (might be better if you leave the leadership of men to a man son)

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We will see who is right on wednesday night then son

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Originally Posted by Morbo

It was best's loss of possesion which led to the goal, he gives the ball away far too ofte
n, not in the same class as Doyle at all. Folan is a viable alternative to Doyle but Best isn't.

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What I saw was Kilbane hoof it down the field, a nothing ball. I later saw Anelka pick it up on the edge of the box and for the umpteenth time in this campaign Kilbane being the nearest player and stood off him rather than rushing to close him down. Needless to say a goal was inevitable because of that.

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Originally Posted by Emmet7

What I saw was Kilbane hoof it down the field, a nothing ball. I later saw Anelka pick it up on the edge of the box and for the umpteenth time in this campaign Kilbane being the nearest player and stood off him rather than rushing to close him down. Needless to say a goal was inevitable because of that.

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St Ledger should have got closer for me, Championship defender against a premiership striker, it showed

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Originally Posted by Emmet7

I don't think that's fair. He is pointing out weaknesses we have. We can either do as the two previous Irish managers did and bury heads in the sand and deny we need to change things or we can leave things the same and watch as we get worse and worse.

We have weaknesses in defence, we have weaknesses in midfield and we have weaknesses in attack. That's blatently apparant and to deny that will not fix the problem.

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You do not lead people into competition/battle telling them they ae going to lose.

If you do not believe that you have the ability to lead them to victory then step aside (shut up might also be a good idea) and let some one who believes that they have the ability to lead his team to success take over.

The so called fans of a team telling the team and other supporters that the team are going to lose is pretty much the opposite of supporting.

These kind of people should be called detractors.

Do you think Ireland has world class players for all these positions playing for some fantasy team and ready to materialise in a few days time

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

You do not lead people into competition/battle telling them they ae going to lose.

If you do not believe that you have the ability to lead them to victory then step aside (shut up might also be a good idea) and let some one who believes that they have the ability to lead his team to success take over.

The so called fans of a team telling the team and other supporters that the team are going to lose is pretty much the opposite of supporting.

These kind of people should be called detractors.

Do you think Ireland has world class players for all these positions playing for some fantasy team and ready to materialise in a few days time

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If football matches were decided on positivity, optimism and hope we would have won 10-0 last night.

We made mistakes last night and we need changes in the team. It's something that has to be faced up to. Sending out the same 11 again in the same positions again in Paris will probably not deliver us a win. As I said, we know what to expect at this stage from those players. Lots of industry, lots of keeping it tight, a number of basic defensive mistakes, lots of running by forwards into cul de sacs, lots of crosses into the box with no-one in the box to receive it and so on.

Telling limited players they are world class will not make them world class. Telling limited players about the mistakes they are making and what they should do to solve them may well make them eventually world class. You have to be honest and tell it as it is.

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Originally Posted by PartySaint

We have NO chance

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I take it you wont be watching the game then? Wouldnt be much point, since we've no chance.