The Derry City thread - Derry sign first four players

there has to be a solution that works for all clubs - this licensing isnt preventing this stuff. Its been a failure. Sanctioning up to 5 clubs will serve the league no good (cue justifiable outrage from Shels fans)... we are on the verge of success in Europe as a league - there has to be a way out of this...

rivalries aside, i wish Derry well and hope that they can pull through - pettiness and point scoring aside ;) , this is just no good for the league be it Cork, Bohs, Dundalk, Derry or anyone.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

rivalries aside, i wish Derry well and hope that they can pull through - pettiness and point scoring aside ;)

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There will always be a Derry City.

However the warning signs for this have been here for months and as ORA says, the board response has been the head in sand philosophy

No later than the start of June we had a public meeting, where board members said we weren't in financial difficulties.

Hopefully this will lead to an end to the madness, but I won't be holding my breath.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

there has to be a solution that works for all clubs - this licensing isnt preventing this stuff. Its been a failure. Sanctioning up to 5 clubs will serve the league no good (cue justifiable outrage from Shels fans)... we are on the verge of success in Europe as a league - there has to be a way out of this...

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The licensing thing has definitly been a failure. Ive heard this a few times off people about how close we are to a breakthrough in europe and I would hate to think all that was for nothing but if sanctioning 5 teams is the only way to wake them up then thats what has to happen. It might make the league weaker, it might mean theres no breakthrough in europe just yet but at least the clubs would be more sustainable. I cant see another way around this other than sanctioning these clubs. We were sanctioned and fairly so if you ask me and we cut our cloth. We're by no means the most financially secure team in the league but we're a lot stronger for it. It has to be the same for other clubs. Besides theres no reason why Rovers cant have a go next year and make a breakthrough in the europa league with a sustainable budget.
I dont want to see any club in the league to go bust but the way some clubs go about their business in this league means its no wonder theyre in such a mess.
Good luck to Bohs, Cork, Derry , Dundalk and whoever else are in trouble at the moment but there has to be sanctions.

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Originally Posted by Umberside

Not sure how it's so obvious Dunny. It's been pretty bad in both situations.

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Please don't start this "my Daddy is better then your Daddy" stuff!

Were all in trouble lads bar Shamrock Rovers. Anyone else that thinks otherwise is living in cloud cuckoo land. Until the question of Players wages,bonuses and signing on fees are sorted the league will still be in ****e.

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Originally Posted by gufct

Were all in trouble lads bar Shamrock Rovers. Anyone else that thinks otherwise is living in cloud cuckoo land. Until the question of Players wages,bonuses and signing on fees are sorted the league will still be in ****e.

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Any thread about a club in trouble you say the exact same thing, it's a little boring now:rolleyes:.

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Originally Posted by sligoman

Any thread about a club in trouble you say the exact same thing, it's a little boring now:rolleyes:.

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Your snide remarks are growing even more boring.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

there has to be a solution that works for all clubs - this licensing isnt preventing this stuff. Its been a failure. Sanctioning up to 5 clubs will serve the league no good (cue justifiable outrage from Shels fans)... we are on the verge of success in Europe as a league - there has to be a way out of this...

rivalries aside, i wish Derry well and hope that they can pull through - pettiness and point scoring aside ;) , this is just no good for the league be it Cork, Bohs, Dundalk, Derry or anyone.

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True, Licensing is not preventing this. But is it not the threat of losing their licence that is the cause of this? And is that not a good thing? [in the bigger picture]

Would we have had announcements from Derry, Bohs, Dundalk, Galway and Sligo (and whoever else) were it not for fear of sanction? Or, without that threat hanging over their heads, would they have kept throwing good money after bad until they were in the similar situations as Cork and Drogheda found themselves?

So to suggest looking for an alternate solution now we're starting to see its effects would be to grant, the clubs, licence :o to do as they pleased again.

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Originally Posted by A N Mouse

True, Licensing is not preventing this. But is it not the threat of losing their licence that is the cause of this? And is that not a good thing? [in the bigger picture]

Would we have had announcements from Derry, Bohs, Dundalk, Galway and Sligo (and whoever else) were it not for fear of sanction? Or, without that threat hanging over their heads, would they have kept throwing good money after bad until they were in the similar situations as Cork and Drogheda found themselves?

So to suggest looking for an alternate solution now we're starting to see its effects would be to grant, the clubs, licence :o to do as they pleased again.

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agree with you AN Mouse. Good points all. Each club must also share some of the blame. But this cycle is just going to keep on repeating itself (Rovers will be next for the climb and then the inevitable fall) and it will always be a case of one step forward, two steps back until a workable, effective licensing system is introduced. Or until contracts are centralised within the FAI. Im no expert and dont have the answers but i would hate to see the good progress of Derry, Pats, Bohs, Cork etc in Europe halted. Rovers will canter to the title next season - i cant see any challengers - and i dont think that will do us any good either. :(

edit: as i said i am no expert but compare Bohs budget with that of RB Salzburg. We were a whisker away from progressing against a team with a budget of e25m-30m per season!! There is no way we can aspire to have such budgets (duh) but we are still competitive - that speaks volumes. The FAI should be lobbying the Government to introduce measures to make investment in local football teams finacially attractive to successful businessmen (though we're probably about a year to late for that to be viable). I dont know, i just thought id throw it out there.

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Originally Posted by A N Mouse

So to suggest looking for an alternate solution now we're starting to see its effects would be to grant, the clubs, licence :o to do as they pleased again.

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I agree that the licencing system is obviously having some positive impact, even if it has not yet sufficiently moderated the "win or bust" model.

IMO it is even more imperative now that the FAI fully implement the current rules (65% rule, tax complaince, player wage fulfillment etc) without fear or favour. Indeed there is a strong argument for the next step of tighter and further regulation to follow full implementation.

Any fudge on implementation by the FAI will completely shatter any integrity that exists regarding regulation.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

(Rovers will be next for the climb and then the inevitable fall)

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Being a Bohs fan that's hardly surprising, though there's some sense in it all right. Why did they sing Chisholm, Mannus and Sullivan when in reality they needed none of them?

A big adavatage of Rovers' is a new, shiny stadium and a huge fanbase and hopefully they won't go down the same route as the rest of us, though it's so tempting... :)

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Originally Posted by Umberside

Being a Bohs fan that's hardly surprising, though there's some sense in it all right. Why did they sing Chisholm, Mannus and Sullivan when in reality they needed none of them?

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rivalry aside, thats why i said it. Plus the Barrett signing which i think is outrageous. Didnt come on cheap wages, couldnt get a game at Falkirk, 21 goals in 11 years. Signing Mannus when they already have the second best keeper in the league is a strange one too.

Anyway, i dont want the thread to get sidetracked.

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Originally Posted by Ezeikial

I agree that the licencing system is obviously having some positive impact, even if it has not yet sufficiently moderated the "win or bust" model.

IMO it is even more imperative now that the FAI fully implement the current rules (65% rule, tax complaince, player wage fulfillment etc) without fear or favour. Indeed there is a strong argument for the next step of tighter and further regulation to follow full implementation.

Any fudge on implementation by the FAI will completely shatter any integrity that exists regarding regulation.

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i tend to agree actually Ezeikial with the added statement that as well as ensuring proportionate punishment for non-compliant clubs there is also an obligation on the FAI to make this league attractive to investors which they have utterly failed to realise.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

i tend to agree actually Ezeikial with the added statement that as well as ensuring proportionate punishment for non-compliant clubs there is also an obligation on the FAI to make this league attractive to investors which they have utterly failed to realise.

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I think the league is very attractive to investors.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

i tend to agree actually Ezeikial with the added statement that as well as ensuring proportionate punishment for non-compliant clubs there is also an obligation on the FAI to make this league attractive to investors which they have utterly failed to realise.

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What happened to the UK consortium that were going to buy Galway anyway? :confused:

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Originally Posted by SkStu

i tend to agree actually Ezeikial with the added statement that as well as ensuring proportionate punishment for non-compliant clubs there is also an obligation on the FAI to make this league attractive to investors which they have utterly failed to realise.

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By that, I hope you don't mean sugar daddies like Arkaga and Vincent Hoey & Friends.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

......there is also an obligation on the FAI to make this league attractive to investors which they have utterly failed to realise.

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While the league continues to attract such a medicore audience -10,000 average live attendance in premier division; lukewarm viewership of MSN - there is little of commercial interest to investors.

The moderate to poor print media coverage, the much complained about disinterest of RTE News and Sport, and the cursory coverage from the various radio stations is a very graphic illustration of this. The marketability and image of the league continues its headlong race downward as the media report the successive financial follies.

As regards attracting investors to individual clubs, apart from the responsibility not being the exclusive preserve of the FAI, capital investment is unlikely to happen while the clubs remain a collective financial basketcase, and prospect of financial returns are way lower then spinning a loaded roulette wheel.

Clubs (which should include their respective fans) must take the primary responsibilty for these problems and the solutions.

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By that, I hope you don't mean sugar daddies like Arkaga and Vincent Hoey & Friends.

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no and no Coughlans either!

there are checks and balances in other jurisdictions that can be applied here and the Govt. should also be lobbied to introduce tax incentives to investors meeting laid out criteria and contractual assurances. Its about time the Government did something for football in this country.

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Originally Posted by Ezeikial

While the league continues to attract such a medicore audience -10,000 average live attendance in premier division

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When was the last time there was 10,000 at a League of Ireland match?

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Originally Posted by Umberside

When was the last time there was 10,000 at a League of Ireland match?

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Don't know. But if the average attendance is 2,050 in the premier and theres 5 matches each week, the weekly audience is about 10,000 in total.