Friendly against England?

Calling England nobodies is ludicrous.

2 teams play any given football match and England are as capable as USA or anyone as beating Spain or any of the top teams. Argentina look awful at the moment, England look like they have a shape & sense of purpose.

It's lack of technique & ball retention, not lack of bottle, that always costs them and I'm pretty sure it'll be the same again in 2010 but I think they'd coast to the last 8 of any WC held in the near future. Hardly nobodies.

I've no interest in playing them. I just don't like the whole England media circus or their support. I'm sure other big countries are similar, but I don't live in or near them.

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Originally Posted by elroy

Well on the scum element, think i saw the most of that element at a recent hurling game involving waterford and tipperary than i have at any football game home or abroad. It was a disgrace and the guards/stewards did very little about it. Hence why I would be concerned at our own police ability to deal with any trouble from UK scum.

Im sure we have our own scum element following Ireland and no doubt a game against England would attract them as it would attract certain "firms" in the UK. Would have no problem with the normal English fan coming across to support their team.

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A series of fights, in and outside the ground and one particularly serious fight in the terrace. People urinating in the main square was also another highlight. A friend of mine was doing promotions outside the ground and she told me she was genuinely scared once or twice due to the nature of abuse and fights around her and even worse the guards did very little about it.

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Originally Posted by elroy

A series of fights, in and outside the ground and one particularly serious fight in the terrace. People urinating in the main square was also another highlight. A friend of mine was doing promotions outside the ground and she told me she was genuinely scared once or twice due to the nature of abuse and fights around her and even worse the guards did very nothing about it.

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That's the point. The Guards thought it would be just another game and refuse help from the British Police. They didn't see it as chance for hooligan element to have a field trip. Does anyone think that if we play England in a 'friendly' away fans could be banned? I'm not making a point just throwing out idea of what might happen.

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Originally Posted by SunderlandBohs

That's the point. The Guards thought it would be just another game and refuse help from the British Police. They didn't see it as chance for hooligan element to have a field trip. Does anyone think that if we play England in a 'friendly' away fans could be banned? I'm not making a point just throwing out idea of what might happen.

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Think Elory was talking about the Waterford v Tipp hurling game there mate.

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Originally Posted by SunderlandBohs

That's the point. The Guards thought it would be just another game and refuse help from the British Police. They didn't see it as chance for hooligan element to have a field trip. Does anyone think that if we play England in a 'friendly' away fans could be banned? I'm not making a point just throwing out idea of what might happen.

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Was referring to the recent game in thurles but get your point re the police. As much as i hate to say this, i would prefer to have a strong presence of UK police here if we play england as they are more experienced at dealing with large football matches.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

You're paying too much attention to the English media. They are nobodies on the world stage. Who have they beaten of note lately? Croatia? They were found wanting in the Euros once they came up against any half decent opposition in the knockout stages. Spain slaughtered England a few months ago.

I suppose you thought they'd win the last World Cup also when people were delusionally claiming they were the best team in the finals bar Brazil. As usual they were shockingly bad. On an individual player for player basis their team now is poorer than it has been for years.

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Presuming a lot arent you? I never aluded to anything other than their standard now and I'm well aware they were crap 2/3 years ago but a lot has changed since. Their lack of balls got them eliminated from tournaments early as i said in my post so the delusional ones were the english fans and media.

Spain slaughtered them. so what-spain would slaughter most teams, what with them being the best team in the world n all. England have been traditionally sh1te at friendlies for years anyway because of their practice of changing the entire starting line up. Surely as a know it all you know that much?

My mistake elroy but it makes your point stronger about the police here in Ireland. The last GAA match I was at was Dublin v Louth with Westmeath v Meath also playing. There was gangs of Dubs fans out for trouble. It's the same with Bohs v Rovers. Bad policing leads to most trouble at these games.

I said it a thousand times. I feel much safer at a Sunderland v Newcastle 49,000 people on a knife edge than going to see Bohs v Rovers with only 5,000 max at the match.

I was at this game in 1995 at the time i was 15, let me just say having witnessed English hooliganism in my later years as well - i don't think i was ever as frightened by anything in my life - anyone who was at the game will admit that the atmosphere was something very different to any other previous encounter with England or any other game in Dublin. I read a book called 'England my England' by 2 Watford fans a couple of years back - they said the riot was simply revenge for what the IRA did in Manchester and Warrington, it was basically a free for all organised by a rightwing group called C18, this shows the mentality of the whole thing - in saying that one of my mates went to Belgium in 2000 to watch the euro’s , not an aggressive guy by any means , but he was sitting in a pub in Brussels with a group of respectable English fans – when the riot police basically walked into the pub , dragged everyone outside shipped them into vans straight for the airport, and sent them home. He said he would never go and watch England away from home ever again.

Within Britain hooliganism is on the rise again – it’s nothing like it was in the 80’s and early 90’s – but in saying that I had a good chat with a guy in Brixton about it – he said he was part of the Crystal Palace crew in the 80’s and he attended most of the England away games during that period – he remarked that the Poles were the toughest he had ever come across – at the same time he said he had returned to his old ways, when I asked why he answer was simply “ I know what I do is wrong but there is simply no word to describe it, he also commented on that every organised meet between rival fans was well away from the public eye these days. And when they go to games nowadays they know exactly who there looking for.

For your average English fan I have no problem with, but at the same time I think it would be a bad idea bringing them to Dublin
All you need to do is look at what happened with the love Ulster parade – a game against England would bring the same element if not in the ground certainly outside it from our side – and if anything they could have a running battle with the cops whatever about England fans – I think potentially it could bring about a lot of bad publicity for ourselves – and for that reason I would go against it

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Originally Posted by as_i_say

Presuming a lot arent you? I never aluded to anything other than their standard now and I'm well aware they were crap 2/3 years ago but a lot has changed since. Their lack of balls got them eliminated from tournaments early as i said in my post so the delusional ones were the english fans and media.

Spain slaughtered them. so what-spain would slaughter most teams, what with them being the best team in the world n all. England have been traditionally sh1te at friendlies for years anyway because of their practice of changing the entire starting line up. Surely as a know it all you know that much?

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As a know it all I can be 100% certain that your statement that only England bottling it will prevent them from winning the next world cup is pure reactionary nonsense purely based on 1 decent result against Croatia. No doubt if they lose to Ukraine in a couple of months you'll be similarly stating that they probably won't even get out of their group. There are about 6 or 7 teams I'd put my money on to win the World Cup before England next year.

As I stated earlier their team at the moment on an individual basis is the poorest they've had for years so how you can make a statement like that is beyond comprehension. To recall an English team having as poor a strikeforce, goalkeeper, right back and wide midfield players as the current team you have to go back to Graham Taylor's time as manager.

They also are as threadbare in central midfield and defence as I can remember. If Terry, Ferdinand, Gerrard or Lampard get injured they have no decent quality replacements - not in terms of so called top international teams anyway. The days when they could call up Sol Campbell or Carragher to central defence are long gone.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

There are about 6 or 7 teams I'd put my money on to win the World Cup before England next year.

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I'm inclined to agree, only that I think Argentina, Germany, Italy, Portugal and others among the usual suspects are looking extremely weak. If Portugal hadn't bagged an injury time winner in Albania in their last game I'd say they'd be out of it already.

That said, very few teams who dominate qualification groups actually go on to success and winning championships is usually about finding form just at the right time, not about how well you played in the previous year. I'm not even sure England are playing well, bar the 4-1 in Croatia. They are grinding out results without too much effort though.

This is neither here nor there: the original point was that they were "nobodies". Total rubbish.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

This is neither here nor there: the original point was that they were "nobodies". Total rubbish.

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They haven't been to a semi-final of a finals competition in 13 years and that was in their own backyard. Before that they had only managed one semi-final in 30 years. I think nobodies is a fair reflection. There are aat least a dozen teams in Europe alone with better records than that in the same time period.

So are we a force to be reckoned with because we made the QFs in 1990?

I'd say most top international teams in the world would consider England a tough draw.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

So are we a force to be reckoned with because we made the QFs in 1990?

I'd say most top international teams in the world would consider England a tough draw.

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No we are sh*t there are lots of teams top international teams would consider a tough draw if they qualify - Czech Republic, Turkey, Russia, Serbia, Ukraine, Ivory Coast, Ghana but I don't see anyone claiming they are a dead cert to win the world cup unless they bottle it which is the original point I pulled as_i_say up on.

Well I think it's fair to say that England aren't in the top tier of countries, where they do see themselves. I'd have them in the 2nd tier which would consist of the countries that generally qualify for tournaments and are expected to reach the knock out rounds. Portugal, Holland, Czechs, Croatia, Sweden and the likes would also be in this tier. Spain would have also been in this pool until their Euro win. France, Germany, Argentina, Brazil, Italy are far more reliable bets to make a Final every so often. That said England's optimism is a good thing, even if it's hard for everybody else to listen to. If we had the same mind set Qualifying might become more of a formality as belief counts for an awful lot. There's no real reason that Bulgaria, Denmark and Sweden are always present at these tournaments and we're not.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

As a know it all I can be 100% certain that your statement that only England bottling it will prevent them from winning the next world cup is pure reactionary nonsense purely based on 1 decent result against Croatia. No doubt if they lose to Ukraine in a couple of months you'll be similarly stating that they probably won't even get out of their group. .

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Now youre just talking crap-again making assumptions that i have said this stuff in the past or classing me with delusionals who think england should have won recent tournaments. I am the exact opposite in fact and as a grown man still react with glee when England lose a match for the reaction of their media as much as anything else.

The croatia team that beat England 2 years ago are not the same force and England psychologically are light years ahead of where they were under McClaren. Graham Taylor 1994/Terry Venables 1996. 2 years is a bloody long time.

My main point is that England have never even looked close to not winning any of their qualification games so far. That hasnt been the case in recent tournaments. Stuttgarts point about winning all your games in qualifying and making a balls of the actual thing is valid (Spain for years) but there is something more determined about this English team. Time will tell who is right.

By next year I'm gonna presume the England first 11 will look something like this

--------------Forster---------
--Johnson---Terry-----Rio-----Cole
--Walcott--Gerrard---Lampard--Barry
----------Rooney--Owen-------

So they will have an inexperienced keeper (or an error prone David James)
Johnson is still weak defensively, might change at Liverpool though
Terry's legs are starting to go, Chelsea should have sold him really
Rio is still error prone, although he has improved as a defender
Cole is starting to look like the player he should have been so thats alright
Walcott will start, but how good he will be will depend on his club form, and if Arsenal stutter so will he
Gerrard and Lampard I still don't think can play alongside each other, I'd drop Fat Frank, Capello won't
Barry is a good solid player, but not a world beater
Rooney, depends which side of him shows up
Owen will probably get back in now he plays for Man Utd, even if he doesn't who plays in his place? Bent? Heskey? Crouch? Not great options

They could win it alright, but I'd easily have at least Spain and Argentina ahead of them in the betting

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Originally Posted by as_i_say

My main point is that England have never even looked close to not winning any of their qualification games so far. That hasnt been the case in recent tournaments. Stuttgarts point about winning all your games in qualifying and making a balls of the actual thing is valid (Spain for years) but there is something more determined about this English team. Time will tell who is right.

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England always coast through their qualification when they qualify for finals. They have topped far more difficult groups than they find themselves in now in the recent past without pulling up any trees at the finals - 2002 and 1998 qualifying spring to mind. In 2006 they also comfortably topped their group even though they experienced a few hiccups along the way and many were claiming they only had to show up to win the tournament yet when they arrived they were shockingly bad, only Ukraine were poorer of the 8 teams that made the quarter finals.

Anyway Croatia and Ukraine are not the quality of team you have the beat to win the world cup I'd be surprised if either qualify if they even make it to the last 16 so I wouldn't read too much into England topping their group thus far. Historically qualifying has no relevance whatsoever to which teams do well at the finals of the world cup.

Point is, player for player, the current English team is the worst I've seen in about 15 years. They will still be dragging Beckham out of his coffin to save games for them by the time the finals start and Capello will be written off as tactically naive and not up to the job when they crash out tails between their legs at the quarter finals stage as per usual.

Sounds to me like some people just like saying the opposite to what Sky does so they can claim to have some higher knowledge of football. Anyone can tell that England have a good team. Calling them nobodies because they lost a friendly to Spain is laughable. Will they win the World Cup? No. But they're deservedly in the top ten FIFA rankings imo.

England will get to the Q Finals next summer but don't have the firepower upfront to blow away the big teams like Spain, Brazil, Argentina and France in a World Cup.

Rooney is injury prone and even if they do bring back Owen into the fold he is only likely to injure himself as well so they are left with Defoe, Crouch, Heskey and Darren Bent. I still don't think they have figured out how to play Gerrard and Lampard together and expect this to be exposed once again as soon as they play a quality side.

If we were drawn with em at the group stages at next years WC (if we qualify!) I wouldn't fear them. I know our team on paper looks a lot weaker but I could see us grinding out a draw no bother.

A friendly against em home or away would be a bloodbath. It isn't worth the aggro.

england(nor france) have enough creativity in the middle imo and especially not at a world class standard. in international football gerrard and lampard are not creative players and imo some of their best attributes go out the window.

england have a deadly team clearly but they will need to rely on their rock solid defence rather than attacking play to win the world cup. they're looking good though.