What flag if any was used....

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Originally Posted by third policeman

So well done to NI. Great performance against Poland ands the prospect of two Irish teams in South Africa is absolutely fantastic

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Cheers. I am quite confident about Wednesday, actually.

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I did once suggest that an All-Ireland team might participate in the proposed Celtic cup competition as a way of allowing football fans in the North to actually cheer for the same team for once

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They can support ManU and Liverpool together in 50 matches every season. Of course it isn't the same thing, but they're hardly losing an inalienable right to watch football.

Over lunch on Saturday I was chatting to the NI Newry boys (IIRC you're from the town/ area?). They're happy with the current set-up, trust me.

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This was and continues to be motivated not by a desire to see the end of the NI team, but see an end to the alarming and hostile polarization of footballing loyalties on a sectarian basis

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I think we can safely assume that

a) it would see the effective end of the NI team whether or not that was your motivation, and

b) it would be as likely to end polarization as Poland abandoning Catholicism and making vegetarian sausage the state religion (sorry, I'm still feeling the effects of Saturday's lunch) ;)

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It might be a stupid and niaive idea but it that's the case it should be countered without misrepresentation or simplifaction

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I'm willing to accept your motive is naive rather than to stir. But no-one's misrepresenting and the simplification is because the issue is er, simple.

Let's get over this one and move on EG. On the subject of Wednesday's game I hope your confidence is well founded. Personally I would worry about NI's ability to score without Lafferty to lead the line, but assuming you secure second place, what are the chances of FIFA stitching up the play offs with an NI v ROI fixture? Does it realy enhance the global brand to have two Irish teams at the World Cup? Maybe its just my paranioa, but I have a bad feeling about this.

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Originally Posted by third policeman

.Personally I would worry about NI's ability to score without Lafferty to lead the line

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I was genuinely amazed we created so many chances and half chances away from home. Give all three strikers plus midfielder (esp Davis) credit. 1-0 would do against the Slovaks.

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but assuming you secure second place

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Realistically, I think it could finish:

sk 19 (lose, win, lose)
cs 18 (win, win, win)

ni 17 (win, lose)
pl 15 (draw, lose, win)
si 15 (draw, lose, win)
sm 0 (lose, lose)

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what are the chances of FIFA stitching up the play offs with an NI v ROI fixture?

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GSpain, Geysir and others on this site are well informed on the likelihood of a fix (they'd say high, I think). It'll be fixed primarily to include France and Russia or Germany, not exclude Northern Ireland.

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Does it realy enhance the global brand to have two Irish teams at the World Cup?

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I think it's irrelevant to the global brand to be honest how many appear in South Africa.

FIFA's heads of security and PR might prefer there not to be play-offs in Dublin and Belfast.

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Maybe its just my paranioa, but I have a bad feeling about this

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Relax :)

PS EG and I (met him for a drink in Chorzow) are genuinely two different people, Fermanagh and north Belfast respectively.

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Originally Posted by third policeman

but assuming you secure second place, what are the chances of FIFA stitching up the play offs with an NI v ROI fixture? Does it realy enhance the global brand to have two Irish teams at the World Cup? Maybe its just my paranioa, but I have a bad feeling about this.

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Yep, Paranoia it is.

Imo, you are falling into the same trap as quite a few football fans from both NI and ROI.

You see, neither team is important in the grand scheme of things, so avoiding eg having two Irish teams in South Africa will not presently be anywhere near the top of FIFA's Agenda when, for instance, both the Korean teams have already qualified, or Argentina may not.

In which case, if eventually the Play-Off Draw should prove to be anything less than fair and above board with respect to NI and ROI, it will be because each of us two 'minnows' will be "drawn" separately, so as to give two "big" team like France or Russia (even Germany?) the best possible chance of going to SA, rather than just one of them.

P.S. I have found the rest of your posts on this thread to be patronising, ill-informed, poorly thought-out and verging on the offensive. However, in the spirit of Gather Round, with whom you appear to be mistaking me, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and add Naivety, not Malice, to your 'Charge Sheet', to go with the Paranoia... :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Gather round

GSpain, Geysir and others on this site are well informed on the likelihood of a fix (they'd say high, I think). It'll be fixed primarily to include France and Russia or Germany, not exclude Northern Ireland.



I think it's irrelevant to the global brand to be honest how many appear in South Africa.

FIFA's heads of security and PR might prefer there not to be play-offs in Dublin and Belfast.

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We are both pretty insignificant as far as FIFA are concerned. We certainly won't be drawn together in a fix or separated in a fix. As GR has said France and other major tv markets will be the main priority. They will want Ronaldo there too so Portugal's ball will spend an hour on the radiator before the draw.

If Germany end up in the playoffs (and there is still a good chance of this) then they will also be favoured.

I'd love a NI v RoI playoff. We'd both have a good chance of going through. I'd certainly take that now.

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Originally Posted by gspain

They will want Ronaldo there too so Portugal's ball will spend an hour on the radiator before the draw.

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If they make it into the play-offs.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

P.S. I have found the rest of your posts on this thread to be patronising, ill-informed, poorly thought-out and verging on the offensive. However, in the spirit of Gather Round, with whom you appear to be mistaking me, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and add Naivety, not Malice, to your 'Charge Sheet', to go with the Paranoia... :rolleyes:

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Wow thanks for the compliment, but in most of these categories I will be struggling to compete with your good self. Given that I have never stated or implied that you and GR are one and the same (may have misattributed a thread perhaps), looks like you could teach me a fewthings about paranioa as well.

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Originally Posted by third policeman

Given that I have never stated or implied that you and GR are one and the same (may have misattributed a thread perhaps)

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You referred to me as EG in #42 above. I assumed that was just a typo, but you also seemed to imply we agree on all the main contentious issues. We don't- I've no problem with NI-based players playing for the Republic, for example. Provided they haven't already played for us after age 18 etc. etc.

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Originally Posted by Gather round

You referred to me as EG in #42 above. I assumed that was just a typo, but you also seemed to imply we agree on all the main contentious issues. We don't- I've no problem with NI-based players playing for the Republic, for example. Provided they haven't already played for us after age 18 etc. etc.

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Your'e right a typo, and I did not mean to imply that you agree on all "contentious issues". The only issue that I have communicated with you and EG about on this or other threads is one where you clearly do agree, and that relates to the "ambiemce" and iconography that surrounds the NI international team. Despite your claims and assurances I am afraid that I will continue to rely on the evidence of my own senses (albeit through the medium of TV these days) and the testimony of NI fans who are friends of mine, that the NI support base is almost entirely Unionist and this fact is reflected in chants, banners and emblems that might not be directly sectarian but are exclsuive and partisan. This in itself inhibits efforts to build cross-community support for the NI team, and I now dont know a single person from the Nationalist community who now follows NI. Sadly (and contrary to the situation in my own youth) nearly all nationalists I know now view the NI team deep antagonism and hostility (though happily this is not the case with actual players). It's not as if I am talking about rabid shinners. From inside the community of committed NI supporters this might not look like a problem, but to me its sad and the spectacle of Irish football divided on sectarian lines is deeply, deeply despiriting.

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Originally Posted by third policeman

Your'e right a typo, and I did not mean to imply that you agree on all "contentious issues"

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My mistake, apologies.

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NI support base is almost entirely Unionist and this fact is reflected in chants, banners and emblems that might not be directly sectarian but are exclsuive and partisan

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I know a handful of other exclusively NI fans from the broad Catholic Nationalist community, and many more who are happy enough to follow both teams equally or look for our results second. All these would disagree with you that the atmosphere as described above is exclusive or unwelcoming. If it was, presumably they wouldn't follow the team.

Of course it's partisan, that's the whole point of international sport. I do worry it might get a lot more partisan than usual if/ when the two teams play each other, but otherwise I'm comfortable with it.

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This in itself inhibits efforts to build cross-community support for the NI team

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Given my reply above, I don't think it does. There is plenty of evidence- much of it documented on this forum- that efforts to build wider support, specifically in nationalist areas/ clubs/ schools, are having some success.

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Sadly (and contrary to the situation in my own youth) nearly all nationalists I know now view the NI team deep antagonism and hostility...from inside the community of committed NI supporters this might not look like a problem

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Without wishing to be too trite, it's clearly much more of a problem for you and your friends than me and mine. We can only suggest that you either a) come along to a game and/ or b) just take a chill pill?

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but to me its sad and the spectacle of Irish football divided on sectarian lines is deeply, deeply despiriting

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It isn't thus divided. But if you can't be convinced, I won't labor the point.

More than happy to call time on the exchange as I really dont want to fall out. Rest assured I will be totally behind NI on Wednesday and hope you keep on track for qualification.

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Originally Posted by third policeman

I am seriously not trying to revive a futile discussion about the merits of a united football team, but your suggested parallels avoid one significant and differentiating fact. A very large section of the NI population dont identify with the NI football team rightly or wrongly, they support RoI and we all meet them on a regular basis at RoI games.

This worries me, because contrary to your and EG's blinkered and unsustainable platitudes about the non-sectarian ambience at NI games, football on this Ireland has become polarised in an increasingly ugly way. (This includes RoI fans abusing Rangers players and hard-line Republicans in the North wearing RoI shirts as some sort of alternative fashion accessory to black berets). Perhaps a united team is not the answer but neither is Panglossian complacency.

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To be fair to TP, he later comes out and says he supports both teams.
Which personally would find very hard, given the amount of bigots I've encountered from that community over the years (though to be fair, much of it was not football-related) which is obviously off-putting.

And would only make any association with The North's team similarly so, though realise it has at least some 'nationalist' input at least on the playing side. Though those players who've risked alienation within their own communities and beyond, would be the ones I'd have most respect for and be happiest for if they make it to SA?

Finally returning to the original subject, on their fans site, some brave soul has come with an alternative flag for the North, basically a St.Patrick's cross with a green backgound and un*******ised red hand in the centre which I'll try and post a link to later.