4 Jackeens and a Racist

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Originally posted by Peadar
When you've all finished basking in the glory you derive from public proclaimation of your anti racist stance.... I believe the immigration rules are justified and offer a fair deal to genuine applicants. You can call me a racist/facist all you like, it doesn't bother me.

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that's just moving the goalposts Peadar. I'm sure most people would agree that we need rules in place to protect the genuine asylum seekers and immigrants, and exclude the chancers, but that's not the point you made that people took issue with.

anyway, immigration has nothing to do with player registration.

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Originally posted by SÓCcfc
Watch this space. The Taoiseach, Minister for Justice and the FG leader all told us to expect a few SF heads to roll soon if the Gardaí do crack down on Provisional IRA "activities".

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Well McDowell, especially, seems to be a master of innuendo. If he has the information as he says he has, he should publish it immediately for us all to see. I have no time whatsoever for SF, but I don't hold with McDowells mudflinging, which he rarely, if ever, backs up.

My, we are busy with the Humanities and Politics topics these days, aren't we? This is good. However there's an unwritten rule about these kind of debates on Foot.ie: Provide evidence or shut up. Peadar, I hate to pick on one particular poster but you're the one making contentious statements here: If you can prove that Africans are responsible for a large proportion of crime in Ireland, state facts and figures please. If you don't know them, the Department of Justice will be able to help you out.

Until then, no more statements like "[t]he biggest ATM and credit card frauds scams in this country recently have been organised by African nationals" and "[j]ust look at all the crime being commited in Ireland by people originally from African nations." If you don't provide facts and figures I'll simply consider it uninformed implicitly racist Sun or Star rhetoric playing to the lowest common denominator. Clear?

adam

So Eanna and Conor have been promoted to jackeens now. Congrats to both.

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Originally posted by Conor74
No probs.

Eanna's already bought the miniskirt and a map of Benburb Street and I have a belt, a spoon, a lighter and an old syringe we used to use for mastitis in the cattle lying around somewhere...;) :D

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SO its alright to generalise one group but not another. Tut tut Conor :p :D

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Originally posted by Conor74
The vanity of comparing Dubs to Africans. You lot think you're a separate race and continent too, I suppose! :D :D

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We may as well be...

If Michael McDowell was to publish any information he had into Sinn Fein's illegal activities it wouldn't exactly help with any criminal investigation into the matters. As is the same with any Garda investigation any such information is kept hush hush until the investigation is finished.

Africans are involved in a lot of crime, mainly fraud and sex offences but so too are Eastern Europeans. However it's wrong to say that they are involved in the majority of it. Us Irish are well enough represented in these crimes too.

The major difference between someone who's Irish committing these crimes and someone from Africa or Eastern Europe committing them is that the majority of Africans and Eastern Europeans in this country are here illegally!!!

The immigration laws in this country are not too strict, if anything they are not tight enough. The numbers of Gardai working within the Garda National Immigration Bureau have been increased in the last month and are due to be increased again in the near furute. If we can stop these problems at the point of entry then we can reduce the numbers of them that are involved in crime here and in the long run hopefully that will help the people of Ireland to accept people of different races

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Originally posted by Eric
If Michael McDowell was to publish any information he had into Sinn Fein's illegal activities it wouldn't exactly help with any criminal investigation into the matters. As is the same with any Garda investigation any such information is kept hush hush until the investigation is finished.

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If thats the case, he should never have alluded to it in the first place.
When it suits him, he can clam up, and say nothing except "I couldn't possibly comment on an ongoing Garda investigation". However, he did not choose to say this, and it didn't stop him from prejudging the outcome of any investigation by deciding that SF are guilty of this, and publicly stating so.

Don't get me wrong Patsh, I'm not standing by McDowell one bit. I agree with you that he should never have even mentioned the matter. He's not exactly the brightest Minister for Justice we've ever had.

The only reason I mentioned that was because others were saying that information re crime caused by foreign nationals should be made known to the public and I was trying to show that it would ruin every criminal investigation if all the information was to be made known before the cases were dealt with

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Originally posted by Eric
He's not exactly the brightest Minister for Justice we've ever had.

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I'd've said the opposite. He's too clever by half.

adam

McDowell is dangerous. If he has proof that Sinn Féin are up to no good let him show it, otherwise he should stop casting allegations and not backing them up.

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Originally posted by Eric
Don't get me wrong Patsh, I'm not standing by McDowell one bit. I agree with you that he should never have even mentioned the matter. He's not exactly the brightest Minister for Justice we've ever had.

The only reason I mentioned that was because others were saying that information re crime caused by foreign nationals should be made known to the public and I was trying to show that it would ruin every criminal investigation if all the information was to be made known before the cases were dealt with

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Fair point, Eric. McDowell is too much of a barrister. He cannot conduct any kind of debate or even interview without trying to cast some negative aspersion on someone. The sooner him and his disgusting party are washed from the face of the earth the better.

I have no time at all for SF, but I don't believe McDowell, and Ahern to a lesser extent, should be allowed to fling allegations around like that. He certainly wouldn't make allegations of a serious nature against any other party and get away with it.
As I said in an earlier post, I feel section 31 gave SF a chance, and they grabbed it with open arms and worked really hard. My only regret is that it was that bloody unionist who was nominally a Labour minister, who gave them that chance.
SF have a mandate, as they endlessly tell us, so they are entitled to their seats. I dare say they will soon have a much bigger mandate than that of McDowell and his ilk.

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Originally posted by Vetinari
Until then, no more statements like "[t]he biggest ATM and credit card frauds scams in this country recently have been organised by African nationals" and "[j]ust look at all the crime being commited in Ireland by people originally from African nations." If you don't provide facts and figures I'll simply consider it uninformed implicitly racist Sun or Star rhetoric playing to the lowest common denominator.

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Methinks there were at least two big ATM fraud stories in the papers fairly recently (and I don't read the toilet papers), one of them only last week. Both involved, as far as I remember, Nigerians.

That doesn't prove either of those statements, and the suggestion that it does is frankly the response I'd expect from a Star reader. A couple of stories plucked from the newspapers - any newspapers - does not constitute proof. However if you can bring me statistics gathered over a reasonable period of time from a reliable source proving that $n ethic group is committing more crime than Irish nationals, or even started a relatively large crimewave, you can have the thread all to yourself. Does anyone else think that this is an unfair requirement?

adam

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Originally posted by Conor74
Isn't everyone forgetting, or at least not crediting, the role SF have played in the peace process. It's easy to knock it, but it's a lot better than the days when fellows saw lying out in the back of a Mazda with a hole cut into the boot and a rifle looking for a target around South Armagh as an admirable way to pass the day.

There may be serious question marks over SF, but they seem to be snowballing as a party if what I've heard about their memberships at Third Level institution is correct. And we must remember that the founding fathers of our three largest parties were not adverse to taking up a gun to pursue their ideals, and breaking the law came as second nature to them. I'm not defending SF's activities at all, I'm just saying that we shouldn't lionise the mainstream parties and airbrush their histories and pretend that SF are unique.

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As regards to Ógra Shinn Féin, (which they spell wrong 50% of the time :rolleyes: ) their crest is a youth throwing a petrol bomb. Says it all really.

What you say about the history of parties is correct but they were different days.

What about the present Conor? Do FF/FG/Lab still have wepons and a private army?

I think its amazing how lightly SF get off. Could you imagne a SF Minister for Justice?!

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Originally posted by SÓCcfc
What about the present Conor? Do FF/FG/Lab still have wepons and a private army?

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So it was grand to have links to an army 80 odd years ago, but now it's totally wrong? Keeping in mind that currently the IRA is on ceasefire while the IRA wasn't back then. The IRA gained independence for the 26 counties, with the support of those who went on to form the current largest parties in the Dáil. A lot of people easily forget that when it comes to talking about the IRA.

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Originally posted by SÓCcfc I think its amazing how lightly SF get off. Could you imagne a SF Minister for Justice?!

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Amazing how lightly SF get off? Why, what do you propose should happen to SF? What do they 'get off' exactly? As for a SF minister of justice, what would be the problem? As proven by SF ministers in the northern Assembly, they're quite capable people and well able to hold ministerial office.
You've thrown about a few non-sensical statements, maybe you'd like to explain them? You views seems to echo those of the likes of Donaldson, I'm sure you'd feel right at the home in the DUP.

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Originally posted by Conor74
There may be serious question marks over SF, but they seem to be snowballing as a party if what I've heard about their memberships at Third Level institution is correct. And we must remember that the founding fathers of our three largest parties were not adverse to taking up a gun to pursue their ideals, and breaking the law came as second nature to them. I'm not defending SF's activities at all, I'm just saying that we shouldn't lionise the mainstream parties and airbrush their histories and pretend that SF are unique.

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So will FF go into coalition with them? You're in danger of not sticking to the party line - not while they have a private army, but it's okay for unionist to power share with them....

Agree with the airbrushing of history thing, although part of the problem is that politics over here still dates back to the civil war. One major party even brands itself as the Republican Party FFS. Can it not be dropped at this stage?

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Originally posted by brendy_eire
So it was grand to have links to an army 80 odd years ago, but now it's totally wrong? Keeping in mind that currently the IRA is on ceasefire while the IRA wasn't back then. The IRA gained independence for the 26 counties, with the support of those who went on to form the current largest parties in the Dáil. A lot of people easily forget that when it comes to talking about the IRA.

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Different times, different situation. early C20th democracy was being ignored. Today it is not. If the people of Northern Ireland wanted a united Ireland they could have it tomorrow.

Back then the majority of the people in question were subject to British rule against their will. Today in Northern Ireland the majoirty of people are subject to British rule simply because it is their will. Of course that doesnt excuse what went on but in modern Ireland that is the reality.

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Amazing how lightly SF get off? Why, what do you propose should happen to SF? What do they 'get off' exactly? As for a SF minister of justice, what would be the problem? As proven by SF ministers in the northern Assembly, they're quite capable people and well able to hold ministerial office.
You've thrown about a few non-sensical statements, maybe you'd like to explain them? You views seems to echo those of the likes of Donaldson, I'm sure you'd feel right at the home in the DUP.

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If you have a private army behind you you should not be allowed into government, doesnt matter if you are green, orange, black white or purple for all I care. I would include the DUP in this, especially with Big Ian's links to Loyalist.

As for your DUP comment:rolleyes:
Grow up. Typical Sinn Féin line, if someone doesnt agree with a SF policy they must be Unionists:rolleyes:

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Originally posted by Conor74
The next election is a long way off. I could easily see FF and Sinn Fein forming a coalition if the numbers stack up. I don't think they will though. In fact, I think the ONLY government that will be possible after the next election will be FF/Labour, after that it's just a question of whether FF will cede enough to make coalition palatable.

The Republican Party was demoted a few years back but I see it being used again, presumably because of some backlash. Technically, I suppose it should read The Second Most Republican Party...;)

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I honestly would revoke my membership if FF got into Government with SF. Labour/FF worked well before the Whehlahan thing. Rabbit would have a hard time coming round.

As for the Republician Party. FF stands for the re-uniting of Ireland through the ballet box but no armalite in the other hand;)