The League

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14/04/2009, 9:36 AM
RoversHead

The idea that a smaller group of clubs on a full time pro footing will raise the standerd and profile of the game along with nurturing young tallant has no real basis in reality.Young tallent is developed at schoolboy level to a very good standerd all over the country year in year out but the cream of our schoolboy crop only ever make fleeting appearances in the domestic league if at all.Im not against players earning money and playing full time but the wages have to be realistic.Im still not convinced that cutting adrift viable clubs in a graveyard division helps football in this country in any way.Im not going to bash the FAI as I think they will get the league running in the right way as soon as they start enforcing rules evenly across the board but the clubs and indeed some of the overpaid players need a reality check .
14/04/2009, 9:54 AM
Neish

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gareth

As stated above, a 16 team Premier Division, no First division, with the A League being the league were potential new teams can develop and grow, as well as "feeder" clubs who are not after promotion, just the development of talent in the league. Sort of a Wexford Youths style setup in different centers around the country.

Teams in Dublin should really share grounds rather than having resources wasted maintaining numerous grounds.

The 10 team PRO league was dead before it was even close to happening. We need to nurture talent and stop shooting ourselves in the foot with 10 team leagues and 3 Divisions. Resources are small already.

Best solution I've heard yet, but what are the chances of the FAI paying any attention to this.

So what would you top 16 be? Mines would be

Finn Harps
Sligo Rovers
Derry City
Galway United
Bohemians
Shamrock Rovers
St. Patrick's Athletic
Shelbourne
U.C.D.
Cork City*
Dundalk
Drogheda United
Bray Wanderers
Waterford
Athlone
Longford

* If Cork fold replace with either Limerick, Kildare or Cobh
14/04/2009, 9:55 AM
pineapple stu

Kildare in the Premier. :eek:

Just so long as they get a bit of notice first.
14/04/2009, 9:55 AM
Dodge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neish

Best solution I've heard yet, but what are the chances of the FAI paying any attention to this.

What solutions? Change the amount of teams in the league and force the Dublin clubs to groundshare?

What would that do?
14/04/2009, 10:05 AM
Neish

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

What solutions? Change the amount of teams in the league and force the Dublin clubs to groundshare?

What would that do?

Not talking about the ground share but the 16 team division. Team that win A League could be given opportunity to apply for licence for premier. Some of the teams I listed in my 16 aren't in great shape (including Harps) but most if not all have supporter bases or potential bases to keep them ticking over
14/04/2009, 10:09 AM
Dodge

I'll ask again, what is a 16 team league a solution to?

I'd love to see harps in the premier but what do the proponents of a 16 team league think that this will achieve?
14/04/2009, 10:11 AM
gufc2000

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neish

Best solution I've heard yet, but what are the chances of the FAI paying any attention to this.

So what would you top 16 be? Mines would be

Finn Harps
Sligo Rovers
Derry City
Galway United
Bohemians
Shamrock Rovers
St. Patrick's Athletic
Shelbourne
U.C.D.
Cork City*
Dundalk
Drogheda United
Bray Wanderers
Waterford
Athlone
Longford

* If Cork fold replace with either Limerick, Kildare or Cobh

:eek::eek::eek:. Kildare and Cobh in the Premier? That would be a joke. Monaghan and Wexford are run far better than a few clubs you already have in the Premier.

Mine would be:
Bohemians
St Patricks Athletic
Shamrock Rovers
Shelbourne
Dundalk
Galway United
Sligo Rovers
Waterford United
Derry City
Finn Harps
Limerick FC
Drogheda Utd
Waterford Utd
UCD
Bray Wanderers
Monaghan Utd

If Cork don't fold, I'd have them in for Monaghan

That leaves Athlone, Longford Town, Fingal, Mervue, Kildare, Cobh, Castlebar, Tralee, Carlow, Salthill, Tullamore, Wexford Youths and possibly Kilkenny and Portlaoise to be split into regionalised groups along with some reserve teams from above
14/04/2009, 10:12 AM
don ramo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

I'll ask again, what is a 16 team league a solution to?

repetitiviness
14/04/2009, 10:14 AM
Sheridan

Don't you think every team outside the top five having a meaningless fixture every week for two thirds of the season would be repetitive enough?
14/04/2009, 10:25 AM
LeixlipRed

Pats might not lose 3-0 to some of those teams though :cool:
14/04/2009, 10:30 AM
don ramo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheridan

Don't you think every team outside the top five having a meaningless fixture every week for two thirds of the season would be repetitive enough?

well a said look at all european league, how many of thise leagues have had more than 4 different league winners in the last 10 years, or 20 in some cases, you will have teams diminateing thats just the way it is,

your not gonna have 16 teams pushing for the title, you will have teams that will be happy just to aviod relegation,
look at england for the best example, some teams are happy to be mid table other just to avoid the drop, some are happy just to get into europe, and outside the top 4 clubs the greatest achievement the other 16 can do is break into the top 4,

i find playing say cork city at home at the start of april and more than likely play them again by the end of may, and again at the start of september, it kills the rivialry, and the game come to be more of a social gathering of catching up with some fella i met at the last game, and see how hes getting on, there no rivilary
14/04/2009, 10:32 AM
LeixlipRed

Quote:

Originally Posted by don ramo

there no rivilary

There's no rivalry because Cobh never had a chance of winning.
14/04/2009, 10:45 AM
Dodge

Quote:

Originally Posted by don ramo

well a said look at all european league, how many of thise leagues have had more than 4 different league winners in the last 10 years, or 20 in some cases, you will have teams diminateing thats just the way it is,

So you're arguing for a 16 team league because a 10 team league is repetitive, and you're arguing against a league that has different winners? That makes no sense
14/04/2009, 11:25 AM
don ramo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

So you're arguing for a 16 team league because a 10 team league is repetitive, and you're arguing against a league that has different winners? That makes no sense

im not argueing against a league that has multiple winners at all,

im saying that no matter how many clubs in a league there will be 2-3 clubs that will dominate the league for a decade or so, regardless if its 10, 12 or 16, there is always a team that dominates,

people here are saying 16 teams will compromise the quailty of the league, how so, you have 4 extra teams playing 4 differnt styles of football, extra competition, and i think there a strong arguement that it would generate better rivilary if you didnt meet the same team so consistently

at this moment in time there are 28 LOI clubs, surely something that be done to make it more interesting, and it has to be interesting otherwise it will just die off slowly, playing each other maybe 6 or 7 times a year isnt intersting, but thats just me

so what would you prefer dodge keep the current set-up 10/12/3-3
14/04/2009, 11:36 AM
Dodge

Quote:

Originally Posted by don ramo

so what would you prefer dodge keep the current set-up 10/12/3-3

Don't really care. 10 is too few, 16 is too many, 12 gives an uneven amount of home and away games.

If some decent research is put into it and its decided to go with 10,12, 14, 16 it wouldn't bother me either way

What I have a problem with is people saying "16 teams is the ONLY way to go" and then giving absolutely no back up to that claim. The league has tons of problems, none of them caused by the amount of teams in each division
14/04/2009, 11:39 AM
RoversHead

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

I'll ask again, what is a 16 team league a solution to?

I'd love to see harps in the premier but what do the proponents of a 16 team league think that this will achieve?

I watched RoversvKildare last night and Kildare had two players thats it 6 and 10 .Now if that club was not cut adrift in the graveyard they would attract one or two other good players and in turn get a bigger gate as they would be worth watching .The added attraction of them playing against the so called big clubs would also bring more to their home games and they might stand a chance of keeping the 6 and 10 during the window and actually move on as a club.The two lads are good prospects and the number 6 was man of the match by a mile,I think he`s from Ghana .
14/04/2009, 11:43 AM
Dodge

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoversHead

I watched RoversvKildare last night and Kildare had two players thats it 6 and 10 .Now if that club was not cut adrift in the graveyard they would attract one or two other good players and in turn get a bigger gate as they would be worth watching .The added attraction of them playing against the so called big clubs would also bring more to their home games and they might stand a chance of keeping the 6 and 10 during the window and actually move on as a club.

The counter to that is that clubs like Cork, Rovers, Dundalk etc would get less crowds for their games.

Should the league be run on the basis that Kildare might geta few people through the turnstiles 4/5 times a season?

Like I said its all speculation on our behalf, and until research is done on that matter, I'll remain sceptical
14/04/2009, 12:19 PM
Gareth

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

Don't really care. 10 is too few, 16 is too many, 12 gives an uneven amount of home and away games.

If some decent research is put into it and its decided to go with 10,12, 14, 16 it wouldn't bother me either way

What I have a problem with is people saying "16 teams is the ONLY way to go" and then giving absolutely no back up to that claim. The league has tons of problems, none of them caused by the amount of teams in each division

Dodge, I believe I raised the 16 team point, and at no point did I say it was the only way to go. I have mentioned why I gave the number, and it was based on having a league that sees teams compete twice against each other, which seems to be the model for the more successful league in this world, by accident or design. It was just a point in a post I made on how the league might work better.

To expand on the point, 5 regional feeder/excellence (whatever word you choose to use) centers, Dublin, South-East, South-West, West/North-West and Midlands could be set up (Wexford Youths, UCD, and other new clubs (Salthill-Devon? for the West)). I mention UCD and Wexford Youths as I think they are the best suited of the current teams to fill these roles. It's by no means an insult to their fans, I think the clubs operate excellently. They would play in the second tier league in conjunction with a selection of reserve teams from the Prem and potential other clubs who would aim for promotion. The aim of these centers would be to develop young talent which will graduate to the Premier division.

In the Premier, It would make sense for certain teams to merge but you battle against history, the loss of tradition etc etc which are hard things to let go of, and equally hard to potentially merge with bitter rivals. However I do think it seems like business sense on paper. Less competition for the same market space.

Anyways...
14/04/2009, 12:21 PM
LeixlipRed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gareth

In the Premier, It would make sense for certain teams to merge but you battle against history, the loss of tradition etc etc which are hard things to let go of, and equally hard to potential merge with bitter rivals. However I do think it seems like business sense on paper.

I really just can't so how anyone could propose mergers. Many of the hardcore (and that's all we have really) would walk away from the league if this ever happened. I would never follow another team.
14/04/2009, 12:25 PM
RoversHead

The elite loads of money derby between Bohs and Pats attracted 200 Pats fans and a half full Jodi .Rovers v Kildare attracted 1500+ on a dreary monday night,six of one half a dozen of the other really.The point is we can only build a sustainable league if we build sustainable clubs.I dont see this happening over night but the journey has been started and I would rather clubs like Kildare came along instead of being left to rot.

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