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So in your opinion, Messi is average, Drogba world class. Spanish league is in decline and England's mighty Premiership rules???
Can't say I agree with you on any of these save for maybe that England's league is currently strongest.
Can I ask you, have you watched Lionel Messi in the last two months for Argentina or Barcelona? I mean full games?
I think the Spanish League is strong than the English League if you compare all teams. English football is obviously the strongest if want to cmpare top 4 teams in each league. Because the same 4 english teams qualify for the CL it makes those teams really strong but also weakens the league as a whole.
Would that be the same Drogba that shot straight at Valdez when presented with a cast-iron chance last night then wasted another easier opportunity when it came straight back to him?Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmet7
Sorry but I don't think Messi would have been so profligate given the same time and space.
There is absolutely no way Spanish football is in decline! You could argue that it is weaker than English football (debatable) but it is certainly not in decline.
Right....I've figured it out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmet7
Would you mind sticking with the 4-3-3 on Friday Paul, and none of this defensive rubbish...
Yes the same Drogba who scored two decisive goals against Liverpool in the quarters, one goal to beat Man Utd in the FA cup a few years ago, who has scored wonder goals against Barcelona and Liverpool in the past and scored against Arsenal as well as consistantly scoring decisive goals in the CL and domestically. And don't forget Drogba is nearly always up front on his own and being marked by two centre backs. And Messi has done what against these top English teams?Quote:
Originally Posted by Docboy
Liverpool thrashed Real Madrid at home and beat them soundly away, this the same Real Madrid team that is cruising though La Liga. Doesn't say much for the standard of La Liga, does it?
As for Inter Milan they have ran away with the title in Italy the last two years, yet have been soundly beaten by Man Utd and Liverpool in the CL and were very poor against both these sides.
I suppose people will be saying Ibrahimavich is a legend next, while Ronaldo, Drogba, Torres, Lampard are poor in comparison.
When Messi scores against English opposition in the CL, then we can call him great. Getafe and levente are not Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool or Arsenal, not in the same league to be honest and if any of the English top sides played those Spanish teams it would be 6 or 7 nil.
I have a feeling a lot of people on this thread learned their soccer from watching tv and not playing the game. Soccer is a game about pitting yourself against others, it's no use being good against useless teams and useless against good teams.
Once again:Can I ask you, have you watched Lionel Messi in the last two months for Argentina or Barcelona? I mean full games?Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmet7
You are comparing a 31 year-old striker who plays in England and therefore gets the chance to play regularly against these "top English teams" teams at least twice a year with a 21 year-old winger who plays in a different league and therefore has extremely limited opportunities to play against the same teams, and arguing that the level of achievement from both should be judged without taking these differences into account.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmet7
That is a really really poor comparison to try and make.
Atletico did well in Europe this season, they outplayed Liverpool and didn't lose a game in the whole competition. They also had to play 2 of their games behind closed doors, negating a home advantage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmet7
But they are different players, one is an out and out striker the other is more of a winger. It's like saying "I'd pick Yuri Zhirkov over John Terry"...Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmet7
It doesn't take much to swing it for you. Is John O'Shea great because he has scored against Arsenal twice and Liverpool? You're tough work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmet7
Crazy quotes always make great signatures! :D
Ha, that's there to stay anyway, quality!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle_Joe
And you learned your football playing for which team and at what level Joe?Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle_Joe
And learning it from the couch doesn't count my friend.
I just see people here and everywhere trying to put Messi in the same league as Maradona, Zidanne, Pele, Roy Keane, etc.
He isn't in the same league, not yet. So let's have a bit of perspective on this.
Clearly he hasn't proved it against English opposition and he must have played at least 10 games against top English sides at this stage.
I accept that Messi is not an out and out strikers. What I was saying was he hasn't scored against English sides nor in the 3 most recent games against English opposition, Man Utd last year and Chelsea this year he just didn't perform, didn't create any chances for other players.
Michael Ballack played a brillant through ball for Drogbas second goal against Liverpool, Anelka also set up two goals. Why Can't Messi even do that, ie he doesn't have to score, just create a chance.
Against Man Utd last year everytime he held onto the ball too much and didn't let it go in time.
And for the last time, Spain is not the top league in Europe, Real Madrid were badly exposed by Liverpool both home and away, yet are considered to be in the top two in Spain.
Being a top side in Spain is about as relevant as being a top side in Scotland. You also have has beens like Pires playing in Spain, while Henry and Canavaro do well in Spain once they come up against the English teams, they aren't so hot.
Robinho was also considered a great player in Spain but has flopped since coming to Manchester, and don't say the reason is because he's with a poor team, Maradonna was always with a poor team yet still did well and zidanne always played with an average French team and did well.
I go on evidence. The evidence is Messi does well in Spain and against poor defences in the CL but once he meets players like Ferdinand, Vidic, Terry, Alex, Carhalho, he flops. Maradonna or Pele never flopped against any team. When he doesn't flop against top English defences, then he can claim to be great.
Incidently what was the score the last time Man Utd played Real Madrid over 2 legs ?
Also Man Utd didn't set the world alight against Villareal the last few times they've played them. And Villareal matched Arsenal in the first leg but were undone by the injury to Marcos Senna (widely acknowledged to be one of the best central midfielders in Europe - note to Michael Carrick fans watch a video of Euro 2008, that recent tournament Carrick & co didn't make it to) prior to the second leg.
Personally I though Robinho was/is overrated and I thought the French team Zidane played with were quiet good, what with winning those World and European Cups. and all that.Quote:
Robinho was also considered a great player in Spain but has flopped since coming to Manchester, and don't say the reason is because he's with a poor team, Maradonna was always with a poor team yet still did well and zidanne always played with an average French team and did well.
Robinho's goal per game ratio in La Liga: 05/06 0.216, 06/07 0.187, 07/08 0.343. Average 0.248Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmet7
at City: 0.464
but he has "flopped" at city though
I dont think Robinho's been that bad, granted he was over priced but that is more a function of Man City triggering dollar signs for any club that approaches them.
City's strike force has been a real mess this season Bellamy briefly after January. Vassell, Ched Evans, Sturrdige, Caicedo, Bozhijnov, Benjani, he'd hardly had a chance to pick up an understanding with a regular striker. He has scored 13 goals (I think) this season, think only Ronaldo and Anelka are ahead of him.
what have villareal won in comparison to utd in last few years ... as for marcos senna widely acknowledged as one of the best central midfielders in europe.. why then is he stil playing with villareal.. ryan giggs wideley ackknowledge as pfa player of the year !! ronaldo widely acknowledged as world player of the year !!! see what i mean not everybody agrees with acknowledgements :p incidently were are real madrid in this years champions league ..Quote:
Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo
They qualify for the Champions League on a regular basis , would have thought his performances in Euro 08 would have meant this wouldn't be an issueQuote:
Originally Posted by old git
Absolute rubbish. Are you attempting to say that they were great in every game they played in? Did they always score or get an assist? Maradona was generally poor for Barcelona and had his greatest moment at the age of 26. Messi is 5 years off that age. Great players can have poor games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmet7
Messi wasn't poor last season against United though. Barcelona were on their worst run of the season at that stage and couldn't buy a goal. Messi worked very hard and was the only player who looked at all dangerous. He was the best attacking force in those two games last season. It wasn't his fault that the rest of the team were useless at the time. Put Pele or Maradona in that team and it's unlikely they would have fared much better.