sweet jesus

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Originally Posted by Sheridan

Rebus2008, not to blow my own trumpet or anything, but neither you nor any of your kind are going to get very far arguing semantics or linguistics or pretty much anything else with me, particularly if you don't know the difference between an email and a post.

As for the other endearingly brave little have-a-go-heroes - quod scripsi, scripsi. And, if I may borrow a phrase from a prominent family on a neighbouring island, honi soit qui mal y pense.

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"My kind" :o- it just gets worse/better - I really can't tell. Am I to be herded into a holding pen in the near future? What exact kind am I? (As Homer S once said, stop digging or at least dig upwards)

Apologies for confusing "emails" and "postings". In this techology driven world of ours, a crime I admit. Guilty as charged, your honour.
Its the new world we live in where emails and postings should never be mixed (they are different "kinds" you know) but the abuse of children is something to be taken lightlyand bandied as trivial matter.

As for the Latin and french, thanks for the multilingual feedback. I can only assume that seeing as you are can't make your point tactfully or factually in English, you headed for foreign shores.

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Originally Posted by Straightstory

Gaelic football is just a horrible mongrel mess of a game. What can it best be comared to?: perhaps soccer without rules - or fifteen goalkeepers against fifteen goalkeepers. As a ball sport it lacks any semblance of guile, asethetic merit or intelligence. It's brutish and nasty in every way.

Hurling often resembles a bunch of farmers in fancy dress hacking a rat to death... And you can't see the ball. As a spectator sport it's pointless.

It's just tribal county loyalty that attracts people to GAA matches.

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will you be with me?

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Originally Posted by rebus2008

it was founded 125years ago so present day members/association can hardly be held up on that. It was founded at a time very different from todays ireland. Certainly wouldn't argue the point that it was founded from a hard line nationalist view but aims/views chnage alot over a century.

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We can discuss whether there's an anti-foreign rump still, but that's been done to death elsewhere, and is beside the point. You said the game was indigenous (and, presumably, entitled as a consequence to some special status) but you haven't supported that claim.

sure hurling is just a modern variation on shinty. which they still play in scotland.

I can only imagine how puke inducing the programme was - the GAA is the only sport that has volunteers you know.

GAA Football just grew out of the same kind of games that football and rugby grew out of, there was nothing unique until they put different rules in place just for the sake of being different.

As for amateur for the love of the game mentality - that definitely doesn't extend to managers. I'd love a year on the "expenses" that some of the big names are on, and even at club level some of the managers are creaming it. The GAA are lucky they're the last great untouchable, as a similar revenue investigation into expenses that the LoI had to endue a few years ago would bankrupt some counties in tax owed and penalties.

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Originally Posted by BohDiddley

We can discuss whether there's an anti-foreign rump still, but that's been done to death elsewhere, and is beside the point. You said the game was indigenous (and, presumably, entitled as a consequence to some special status) but you haven't supported that claim.

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Look I won't try to convert younguys from your trenchant vies but my guess is that the discussion on the "aniti rump" consists of several agreeing with each other with the occasional anecdote or urban myth thrown in for good measure. I've been involved for 30+ years and for the vast majority of gaa followers the anti foreign vibe is a myth. Lifes short/most people are mutli sports followers from dubs/munster to jacks army etc.

The oxford definition of indigenous is "originating or occurring naturally in a particular place; native". As gaa games are primarily played in Ireland, it sfair to say that they are indigenous. Along the same lines as Aussie rules/bull fighting/boules.

Finally, I don't recall asking for special status for gaa.

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Originally Posted by Macy

I can only imagine how puke inducing the programme was - the GAA is the only sport that has volunteers you know.

GAA Football just grew out of the same kind of games that football and rugby grew out of, there was nothing unique until they put different rules in place just for the sake of being different.

As for amateur for the love of the game mentality - that definitely doesn't extend to managers. I'd love a year on the "expenses" that some of the big names are on, and even at club level some of the managers are creaming it. The GAA are lucky they're the last great untouchable, as a similar revenue investigation into expenses that the LoI had to endue a few years ago would bankrupt some counties in tax owed and penalties.

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I would agree with your views on the program as being v poor. (We probably have differing reasons, in that I feel a v good programme was possible while you might feel that no good programme could even be based on gaa. :)) It would it equate to the FAI doing similar and then focusing solely on Jacks army and the same old faces (Giles/Brady) with no reference to the huge school boy set up, womens football or the historical establishing of football in Ireland and its struggles (incl those against the gaa).

I'd not argue with you either about managers expenses. Alot of hyping of the "amateur" gaa status while alot of managers get big expenses. I would point outr that there would be major exceptions (Tyrone/Dublin/Kerry/Kilkenny) but alot of middle ranked counties do engage in it, and clubs as well. It does a major disservice to the game but with recessionary times, I think this will come more into focus. (1) The revenue will be chasing all tax possibilities (2) People aka local builders won't have the funds to hand out.

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Originally Posted by rebus2008

I've been involved for 30+ years and for the vast majority of gaa followers the anti foreign vibe is a myth.

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I agree, but one of my issues with the GAA (and with the FAI I might add), is that the upper echelons seem to be unrepresentative of the majority of the grassroots. In my experience, (mainly athletics), it tends to be a certain type of person, (and this goes for every sport) who will put themselves forward for committee positions and hence will become the public face of whatever organisation they represent. Although professing to be member controlled and democratic, this then leads to situations where issues are not discussed because they aren't proposed in the right way, or at the right time, or haven't been seconded by the right people, or someone forgot to sign some form or some other such technical problem.

Hence although something needs to be discussed out in the open, it can be swept under the carpet by a minority, giving a bad impression of the organisation as a whole. The "foreign games" ban was quite embarrassing to the GAA given the various foreign sports and cultural events that had already been accommodated at GAA grounds around the country, and to my mind was a clear example of the rules being quoted merely to block something that a minority objected to, whereas the same rules were frequently ignored by the same people in other situations.

On another point, when clubs vote on a motion at a county agm (I think this is the way it works), I often wonder how many members of that club actually voted at club level. For the record, I think that the opening of Croke Park was an example of the grassroots of the GAA exercising their power and letting the delegates representing them know in no uncertain terms that they were to vote in favour of it.

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Originally Posted by bigmac

I agree, but one of my issues with the GAA (and with the FAI I might add), is that the upper echelons seem to be unrepresentative of the majority of the grassroots. In my experience, (mainly athletics), it tends to be a certain type of person, (and this goes for every sport) who will put themselves forward for committee positions and hence will become the public face of whatever organisation they represent. Although professing to be member controlled and democratic, this then leads to situations where issues are not discussed because they aren't proposed in the right way, or at the right time, or haven't been seconded by the right people, or someone forgot to sign some form or some other such technical problem. Hence although something needs to be discussed out in the open, it can be swept under the carpet by a minority, giving a bad impression of the organisation as a whole. The "foreign games" ban was quite embarrassing to the GAA given the various foreign sports and cultural events that had already been accommodated at GAA grounds around the country, and to my mind was a clear example of the rules being quoted merely to block something that a minority objected to, whereas the same rules were frequently ignored by the same people in other situations.
On another point, when clubs vote on a motion at a county agm (I think this is the way it works), I often wonder how many members of that club actually voted at club level. For the record, I think that the opening of Croke Park was an example of the grassroots of the GAA exercising their power and letting the delegates representing them know in no uncertain terms that they were to vote in favour of it.

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Agree 100%.
An expression I've heard is would be "County Board Officers and Chairman are usually politicians who didn't have the stomach to go into politics".

Thankfully, the grass roots spoke up when it mattered on Croke Park and rugby/soccer were allowed access. Sending Irish teams overseas to fulfill home fixtures would not have sat well with vast majority of GAA followers when Croke Park is available.
Personally, I was never in favour of Landsdowne Road development. One stadium for all would have worked well and been financailly sound. Rugby and soccer could have cashed in on land value (I know IRFU own it but FAI lease/goodwill would have been worth 25-30% of the sale value). I fear that we'll end up with 2 white elephants for last sections of the year (and grandparents still on hospital trolleys) with the 50,000 in Landsdowne not coping with the demand for large number of 6 Nations and WC qualifiers. Totally different issue I know.

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Originally Posted by bigmac

I agree, but one of my issues with the GAA (and with the FAI I might add), is that the upper echelons seem to be unrepresentative of the majority of the grassroots. In my experience, (mainly athletics), it tends to be a certain type of person, (and this goes for every sport) who will put themselves forward for committee positions and hence will become the public face of whatever organisation they represent. Although professing to be member controlled and democratic, this then leads to situations where issues are not discussed because they aren't proposed in the right way, or at the right time, or haven't been seconded by the right people, or someone forgot to sign some form or some other such technical problem. Hence although something needs to be discussed out in the open, it can be swept under the carpet by a minority, giving a bad impression of the organisation as a whole. The "foreign games" ban was quite embarrassing to the GAA given the various foreign sports and cultural events that had already been accommodated at GAA grounds around the country, and to my mind was a clear example of the rules being quoted merely to block something that a minority objected to, whereas the same rules were frequently ignored by the same people in other situations.
On another point, when clubs vote on a motion at a county agm (I think this is the way it works), I often wonder how many members of that club actually voted at club level. For the record, I think that the opening of Croke Park was an example of the grassroots of the GAA exercising their power and letting the delegates representing them know in no uncertain terms that they were to vote in favour of it.

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There was/is no such thing as a ban on foreign games.

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Originally Posted by Jinxy

There was/is no such thing as a ban on foreign games.

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WUM.

Ban lasted until 1971. Just double checked Rule 44. Covered most games ...except golf for some reason:confused:

Didn't know as well that British Gov banned GAA in 1918. So could have been tit for tat affair.

Regardless, thankfully its gone and with it the days of GAA players in football/rugby team photos eyeballing their own boots.:D

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Originally Posted by L37Ultra

I thought it was a great show.

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I watched Celebrity Big Brother.

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Originally Posted by Jinxy

There was/is no such thing as a ban on foreign games.

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Hence the quotation marks around the term "foreign games". The term is a colloquialism used by many people to refer to Rule 42. I'm not sure of the original wording so I'm open to correction, but I believe that central council always had the power to sanction games, with the proviso of
"not in conflict with the aims and objects of the Association"
This backs up my original point, wherein I suggest that the above rule was selectively employed by many within the administrative structure of the GAA.
In practice, I believe that the original ban on members attending or playing non-GAA sports was similarly selectively applied to specific non-GAA sports.

The essence of my argument is that the minutiae of the rulebook has been employed on many occasions as a crutch to avoid debate on certain issues. Hence, it is as unfair to tar every GAA fan with the association's brush as it is to believe every football fan supports the FAI wholeheartedly or every rugby fan wants to abolish Connacht.

It most definitely does not back up your original point.
Your point was that "foreign games" (quotation marks or not), were supposedly banned yet other non-soccer/rugby events took place in GAA grounds therefore this was a contradiction.
The rule was selective by it's very nature so there is no hypocrisy involved in selecting some activities as being contrary to the aims and objectives of the association and allowing others to go ahead on GAA property.

Can we get all this Gah rubbish banished elsewhere, this place is beginning to stink. This is a forum for discussion of serious sport, take it outside.

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Originally Posted by Sheridan

Can we get all this Gah rubbish banished elsewhere, this place is beginning to stink. This is a forum for discussion of serious sport, take it outside.

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As unusual as it sounds, I think you may have made a valid point. The thread has run its course and moved to far from the original point. I promise to post no more on this topic.
Unfortunately in expressing your view, your primeval tendencies won out again as you had to resort your base corsenes again. As a fellow Irishman, I am truly sorry that I offend you, and your sensitive nose, greatly just because I have preference one sport over another.:(

A few things that have me wondering since we first crossed paths:
- Would you not consider it ronic that you have such a dislike for the GAA but your very own now defunct club, during its short life, made a very obvious play through their crest/colours/merchandise to bandwagon with an association to the Dublin football team :eek:
- Gaa may have its faults but I am confident in its future that they'd never have to descend to the ploy of importing players in the mould of Carlton Palmer to boost non existent attendances. Maybe crowds would have been higher if you had been more successful at developing/acquiring local talent rather than adopt a policy more akin to the Premiership.
- Does the liquidator know you still use the Dublin City crest. Surely, that is the property of their creditors as a bankrupt entity. Do you pay a licence fee for its usage to clear the clubs debts?

I expect the usual vitriolic return from your good self but sometimes, I guess the truth hurts and I understand that "neanderthal man" only has his crude club to swing.

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Originally Posted by Jinxy

It most definitely does not back up your original point.

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It doesn't back up my point that the rule book is selectively applied according to the wishes of the hierarchy, and not necessarily the grassroots? Agree to disagree so.

As Porky says, That's all folks

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Originally Posted by rebus2008

- Would you not consider it ronic that you have such a dislike for the GAA but your very own now defunct club, during its short life, made a very obvious play through their crest/colours/merchandise to bandwagon with an association to the Dublin football team :eek:.

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The similarities don't stop there. The birth of Dublin City FC and Gaelic Football, though seperated by some 120 years, both had to happen from a stone cold start with relevant terms of reference being plucked out of thin air.
How did Dublin end up wearing sky blue and navy anyway? I do hope it's a more interesting, tradition laden tale than that of how the bulk of counties accquired their colours.

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Originally Posted by rebus2008

- Gaa may have its faults but I am confident in its future that they'd never have to descend to the ploy of importing players in the mould of Carlton Palmer to boost non existent attendances.

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I share your confidence because ...

1. Carlton Palmer has quite possible never even heard of Gaelic Football and

2. your code is an isolationist backwater who's only outreach to the international community takes the form of a poorly marshalled riot with a bunch of Australians. Even that has to be preceeded by a debate about what shape ball to use and is usually followed by an amount of handwringing opining that this spectacle must never be allowed take place again.

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Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

The similarities don't stop there. The birth of Dublin City FC and Gaelic Football, though seperated by some 120 years, both had to happen from a stone cold start with relevant terms of reference being plucked out of thin air.
How did Dublin end up wearing sky blue and navy anyway? I do hope it's a more interesting, tradition laden tale than that of how the bulk of counties accquired their colours.

I share your confidence because ...

1. Carlton Palmer has quite possible never even heard of Gaelic Football and

2. your code is an isolationist backwater who's only outreach to the international community takes the form of a poorly marshalled riot with a bunch of Australians. Even that has to be preceeded by a debate about what shape ball to use and is usually followed by an amount of handwringing opining that this spectacle must never be allowed take place again.

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_ I believe the dublin colours came to change in 1970's due to a washing machine malfunction. I think Dublin used to different (mayeb darker) colour scheme prior to that time but mixed wash resulted in a different colour (light blue etc) emerging from the machine and rather than buy a new set, they just went with the new colours. Hard too believe but very GAA, i'm sure you'll agree.

- I'd be fairly confident that Carlton palmer has never heard of GAA. As you say, its a local sport. But then again, I'd be fairly sure he'd never heard or Dublin city FC (possibly even the LOI) until he had a nice wage offer dangled in front of him. Nothing wrong with his lack of knowledge on either imo. Not a reflection on either GAA or LOI, maybe just on premiership mensa numbers. They tend to be more readers of the Sun than the Guardian.

- A correct summary by you on the intl dimension of gaa (or maybe lack of) . Wouldn't argue about that with you. If 110,000 people will turn up for two games, who'd be worrried about minor details like that. Anyway, an intl dimension isn't a barometer of a sports quality. WWE is fairly popular all over the world.

Rebus, let me just give you my background, my number one sport is football......I would watch/attend a football game in preference to any gaa or any other sport event.

However, I have an interest in Hurling and Football (Cork in particular) and rugby amongst other sports. I wouldnt claim to have an in depth knowledge of any of these sports. However I can appreciate a good game in any code.

I used to be a regular contributor on a number of GAA forums, however i stopped a few years ago because of the constant abuse I received from the anti any other sport brigade, mainly because I made it known that GAA was not my number 1 sport. The amount of GAA fans who are disturbingly anti "foreign game" is unbelievable for example anti Munster....there are at least three sites that I can mention that contain forums celebrating defeat for Munster merely because in their narrow minds they see it as a threat to the gaa. The ironic thing is I think alot of the same individuals would sit down and watch the odd premiership/heineken cup game at the wkd.

Not once on this site have I ever seen a thread proclaiming delight that Munster/Leinster were defeated or delight at something adverse affecting a gaa team etc. In fact I have discussed the trials and tribulations of Cork Hurling on this site before……I couldn’t imagine having a similar discussion about say the S Ireland affair on a gaa themed forum without abuse.

Now before you make the point, I understand that gaa fans may also experience similar sentiments from football supporters but I think its fair to say it is not on the same level or quantum.

I have no problem with an individual having a preference for one sport over another or even supporting/playing a number of sports, in fact I would encourage it. I just dont understand why in particular gaa people try to 'put down' football in comparision to gaa. How often I have heard them say after a good gaa game that how football could never be as good as that or how hurling/gaa is the best field game......on a regular basis the analysts (Daly, Spillane, O'Rourke, Lyster, Farrell etc) on RTE's coverage will make adverse comparisons to the premiership/football. You never see the opposite on the football programmes.

From my own personal experiences, I played GAA and football on a regular basis. I often experienced ridicule from my coaches at GAA level from playing football and was actively discouraged against doing so. I never experienced the same sentiments from my football team representatives. Yes this is only one persons experiences but I know of a 15 year old boy who recently chose to play football for his local team one Sunday morning and turned up to play for his U16 GAA team in the afternoon. This boy is a very talented player and probably the best player on both teams. When he arrived for the gaa game, he was told to go home and would not be considered to play for his gaa team again unless he gave up the football. In this day and age that sort of treatment to a 15 year old boy is appalling. Unfortunately this sort of experience is not isolated.

Every sport has it faults, I for one would give anything for a similar grassroots structure in football that the gaa has. On the other hand, the gaa would love to have a decent international dimension which is the jewel in the crown for the FAI and the IRFU. I think the figure heads at the GAA get alot more of an easier run from the Irish press than say the admin level of the FAI. Now I know the FAI dont help themselves but there are aspects of the GAA that are shady to say the least. For example, it claims to be an amateur sport, however it is well known that a number of inter county and club managers throughout receive vast amounts in "expenses".

Finally, you made the point that you didn’t feel there was a need for a redeveloped LR. I could not disagree with you more. I feel very at home in CP for a Cork game but for Ireland games its like watching a match at your mother in laws. It just doesn’t suit football. Imagine having to play a gaa game on a tight slightly extended football pitch, it just wouldnt feel right. I think the number of games that all codes will play at both stadiums will be more than enough to keep both viable. And in a nutshell I think this is the key point of my rant, Ireland is a small country but a sports mad country…..so is there space for the GAA, Football and rugby, without doubt there is. There will always be rivalry between codes and there is bad history (e.g. the ban) which I don’t feel is relevant of discussion in these more modern times. The reality is that rather than being in direct competition with each other for numbers etc, a number of the codes actually complement each other.