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agree 110% and I'm sure we all would.... but would a Glasgow supporter prefer the same thing?Quote:
Originally posted by Macy
Boll0xs to all this anyway - clubs are far more important than international teams.... Far more important to me that Town win the Cup Final than Ireland winning last Saturday...
And boll0xs to that. Another one with a Glasgow obsession.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally posted by Xlex
agree 110% and I'm sure we all would.... but would a Glasgow supporter prefer the same thing?
Country first, every time. Any mercenary can play for your club (If your club can afford them that is).
Any muppet can support the national team 6/7 times a year - club football's week in week out is what it's all about....Quote:
Originally posted by Greenbod
Country first, every time. Any mercenary can play for your club (If your club can afford them that is).
Actually missed the obvious.... What is this thread about? Mercenaries like Morrison, Houghton etc etc.... LOL...Quote:
Originally posted by Greenbod
Any mercenary can play for your club (If your club can afford them that is).
Any mercenary can play for your country, once they have the right grandparents....
What you are talking about is club football where hooliganism is watered down.
And where do u think all this so-called hard cases start??
Lopez, we can all list incidents involving fans of teams. I couldnt even count how many times ppl in Ireland have had a go at me (both physically and verbally) for choosing to support England. I have been bottled and stabbed by Irish fans, got a good kicking off some Germans, have been chased by Chelsea and Man Utd fans - the list goes on. But my point on 'average' fans, which you chose to take exception to, is still valid - its only 1% or 2% of fans who are idiots, its the 98% that make up the average, football loving, passionate fans.
Your entire list of events seem to be trying to prove that these so-called English fans are not as 'hard' as the Irish fans e.g. they got a bit of a pasting; they are not as tough as in the books; if there were a few more Paddy builders there.
Plus I did like the way that you refer to my Irish mates who choose to support England as 'Irish' which is quite ironic given the topic of this thread........ Do you think that in Spain, because you support Ireland, they refer to you as 'Spanish'??
Anyhow I dont wish to turn this into an English v Irish debate. On the general point I think that, with the grandparents rule, you will always get chancers and u will always unearth one or two genuine gems. If the rule is there exploit it and hope that the players perform for you regardless of whether they can dance the Siege of Ennis or recite a passage from Peig.
:D
Er, that's exactly what does happen MOST of the time, or do you think I and the some of the others that have posted on this thread put on an Irish accent when we follow Ireland.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally posted by gustavo
Because of course if a guy with an english accent went in amongst our fans as a mere anthropological experiment at an ireland match he would be made to feel most welcome
Never seen it done, but there was a bloke in Lisbon in 2000 who had an England shirt with the Butchers' apron in my section that survived unscathed physically and verbally. I also saw a big St George's flag in the Irish section in Georgia. Given the choice between wearing a Rangers shirt at an Ireland game and an Ireland shirt at an England game, I'd take my chances with the Rangers shirt.Quote:
Originally posted by gustavo
especially if he produced a rangers shirt cos he heard that the irish have a great love for some team in glasgow
My entire list of events aims to prove that, ONE, your figure of the odd 1 to 2% of England fans are hooligans is complete cojones, and TWO, that despite an industry in printing books portraying themselves out to be the hardest, bravest and indeed the most honourable hooligans in Europe, in reality 99% of them are cowards.Quote:
Originally posted by S.E.P.1990
Your entire list of events seem to be trying to prove that these so-called English fans are not as 'hard' as the Irish fans e.g. they got a bit of a pasting; they are not as tough as in the books; if there were a few more Paddy builders there.
Oh you did! You said these were Irish born English fans, and expect me to assume that because they were born in Ireland they were Irish. I guess you think that as I was born in England I am English. You probably think a dog born in a barn is a horse. The quotation marks referred to how Neolithic man would take to them. No offence was intended to your mates.Quote:
Originally posted by S.E.P.1990
Plus I did like the way that you refer to my Irish mates who choose to support England as 'Irish' which is quite ironic given the topic of this thread
After this quote, however, you replied that they were merely soccer tourists. Perhaps if you said that at the beginning, I would have discarded the quotation marks.
I wasn't born in Spain and never lived there, so I'm confused to what the relation of this has got to do with me describing your mates 'Irish' for being born in one country and supporting another, without me knowing their opinion of and relationship with viz a viz their country of birth. For instance do they have dual citizenship? (which for the record I don't possess - even though I'm entitled to three nationalities - so there is no need for any misunderstanding about my nationality).;)Quote:
Originally posted by S.E.P.1990
Do you think that in Spain, because you support Ireland, they refer to you as 'Spanish'??
You're missing the obvious and you don't even see the contradiction in what you're saying. The important part of your statement above is "right grandparents". Any mercenary can play for your club regardless of background or history. Why would anyone support these guys more than the national team.Quote:
Originally posted by Macy
Any mercenary can play for your country, once they have the right grandparents....
Every club footballer you support would move given a better offer. A decision to play for your country is permanent and irreversible.
Read back over the dicussion, for some international football is just a carreer move.... Not good enough for england, sure it's okay you can get you bonus because of one grandparent..... btw what about the arguements and threats every major tournament over the players pool share of the income - for the love of the country me arse....Quote:
Originally posted by Greenbod
Every club footballer you support would move given a better offer. A decision to play for your country is permanent and irreversible.
You said these were Irish born English fans, and expect me to assume that because they were born in Ireland they were Irish. I guess you think that as I was born in England I am English. You probably think a dog born in a barn is a horse.
Lopez, apologies for the confusion (i didnt know ur relationship with spain and was just taking a wild guess..:) ).
The original point was that there are Irish fans who also support England (or at least thats what it was taken as). All but two of the lads are Irish born but have either one or two English parents - thus they feel comfortable following both teams. Two of us are similar except we were born in England.
Not sure what the soccer tourists refers to (??)
As for the born in a stable argument surely that is what this thread is about?? Some people do think they should be horses and some people think they should be dogs!!! (Then again some ppl think they are dorses!!! Which is where it gets too
confusing....:D )
And then of course there's the anthem test, David Connolly and Kevin Kilbane sang the national anthem last week, Ian Harte and Colin Healy either couldn't be arsed because they're too cool for that or else they just don't know it. Does this make Connolly and Kilbane more Irish than the two wannabe male models? (Though truth be told I wish Healy was ineligable :))
btw what about the arguements and threats every major tournament over the players pool share of the income - for the love of the country me arse.... [/B][/QUOTE]
How can you consider your club before your country?What you refer to above maybe a very small percentage of international footballers interests but in club football there is affinity to nothing but a good contract.Y
btw what about the arguements and threats every major tournament over the players pool share of the income - for the love of the country me arse.... [/B][/QUOTE]
How can you consider your club before your country?What you refer to above maybe a very small percentage of international footballers interests but in club football there is affinity to nothing but a good contract.Y
how can you go club before country, simply this, i am from longford and then from ireland, i wear my town jersey with more pride than i would ever wear an ireland one, maybe thats just me but de town always come first.
ask yourself a question do you get more joy out of ireland winning a game or your club winning a game ??? i know which is the answer for me
And therein lies the rub. For many of us who are second-generation Irish, we tend to identify more with the country as a whole than any one specific part. It makes sense; we may have parents from different parts of the country (in my case east county Galway and west county Sligo) or just one Irish parent and one from elsewhere. As such, in my own case I follow eircom League football in general, but have no loyalty to one particular team. I've been to Terryland Park, St. Mel's and the Showgrounds on several occasions in each case but have never come away having undergone a Pauline conversion to United, Town or Rovers. Much as I might have liked to... ;)Quote:
Originally posted by max power
how can you go club before country, simply this, i am from longford and then from ireland, i wear my town jersey with more pride than i would ever wear an ireland one, maybe thats just me but de town always come first.
ask yourself a question do you get more joy out of ireland winning a game or your club winning a game ??? i know which is the answer for me
And - it's probably the second-generation thing again - in spite of the fact that I am a Celtic man through and through, I would rather Ireland win the European Championship (or the World Cup) than Celtic win the Champions League. So it's country before club every time.
:D PP
as i said paddy each to his own , but we are off topic now and the bones is when is an irish man an irish man. does a little book with Eire in the front of it and your picture on the inside make you irish, is it where you were born ,is it your mind set, is it your background, is it your love of the colour green or is it just an easy way to get international football for some people ????
There would be quite a large section of the team if you tke into account that many of the invaders of Ireland like the Vikings, Normans and even English settled in Ireland and married Irishwomen becoming as Irish as the Irish themselves.Quote:
Originally posted by thecorner
vey interesting indeed
an article saturday morning with brian kerr
"we have a great chance of beating the swiss,cos our forefathers were always up for a batlle when our country was been invaded and it has been passed down family traditions thru the years"
"our players will battle like they did"
one thing u forgot brian
some of our team were descendants of the w@nkers that invaded us
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Quote:
Originally posted by max power
how can you go club before country, simply this, i am from longford and then from ireland, i wear my town jersey with more pride than i would ever wear an ireland one, maybe thats just me but de town always come first.
ask yourself a question do you get more joy out of ireland winning a game or your club winning a game ??? i know which is the answer for me
i like this answer
go on max power.......give 'em hell;)
Quote:
Originally posted by Macy
Read back over the dicussion, for some international football is just a carreer move.... Not good enough for england, sure it's okay you can get you bonus because of one grandparent..... btw what about the arguements and threats every major tournament over the players pool share of the income - for the love of the country me arse....
You're really not being consistent. You say for some international football is just a career move. This is supposed to be an argument for club before country?
Well I' ve got some news for you. For ALL (not some) club football is a career move. Every single footballer you so passionately support would move away from your beloved club given half a chance. Using your own logic you should support country before club every time.
BTW, Saints will win the cup;)
Paddy, it's not a second generation thing. I'm first generation and feel the same way. Country first, every time.Quote:
Originally posted by Plastic Paddy
And therein lies the rub. For many of us who are second-generation Irish, we tend to identify more with the country as a whole than any one specific part. It makes sense; we may have parents from different parts of the country (in my case east county Galway and west county Sligo) or just one Irish parent and one from elsewhere. As such, in my own case I follow eircom League football in general, but have no loyalty to one particular team. I've been to Terryland Park, St. Mel's and the Showgrounds on several occasions in each case but have never come away having undergone a Pauline conversion to United, Town or Rovers. Much as I might have liked to... ;)
And - it's probably the second-generation thing again - in spite of the fact that I am a Celtic man through and through, I would rather Ireland win the European Championship (or the World Cup) than Celtic win the Champions League. So it's country before club every time.
:D PP
I remmeber the English fans in Lisbon - a few came in the back in their white shirts. they didn't come to any harm but they must have been bemused at some of the pro-german chants. (Germans won at Wembley earlier i nthe day). I assume they were ex pats.
Also had a Leeds fan in his Leeds shirt who kept singing "Ian Harte Harte Harte" everytime he touched the ball sitting behind me.
I wore my Irish shirt in Osaka at the England v Nigeria game mixed in with england fans and there was no problem. also put up a tricolour.