Trapattoni - who would you replace him with?

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15/10/2013, 2:47 PM
brine3

The Liverpool youth team getting destroyed at Anfield. (Is it Anfield?)
15/10/2013, 2:59 PM
geysir

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingdom

lagerback was touted here around the Trap appointment. If he wasn't touted, then he was definitely used as an example of getting a coach who would get results with similar talent, but at a much cheaper outlay.

Lars Lagerback's replacement in Sweden, then the Swedish version of an antithesis to Lars, has reverted somewhat to Swedish type, reinstalling the infamous Lagerback opening 15/20 minutes of extreme caution and is partial to periods of protection, with the packed defence and plenty of hoofing in evidence.
Meanwhile, Lars has been transformed from staid plodder with Sweden to a kind of a, je ne sais quoi, liberated, grass smoking, free thinking, football hippy with Iceland.
Maybe next year, a visitor to Iceland will be landing at Lars Lagerback Airport, travel along Rue Lars towards Hotel Lars which faces out towards Stadium Lars. But thats not real fame here, real fame would be when they decide to name a mountain after you.

Probably Lars does not fit in with the blank chequebook type personality candidate that would get Ruud and Ray's attention.
15/10/2013, 3:38 PM
Bungle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingdom

The Liverpool Academy has been lauded constantly, but it still is struggling to show it's true worth. The problem to me appears to be that they are hoovering up a lot of talent around England and Europe, but then they don't seem to know what to do with them.

They've been undergoing a transformation since Benitez got rid of Steve Heighway. It's no surprise it's rated so highly because the guy who was chief at La Masia was Rodolfo Borrell, who is head of the Liverpool academy, and previously Pep Segura
The problem for Liverpool is that the players that a lot is hinging on, are the quick skillful continentals, such as Suso, Teixeira and Canos, and historically these players have struggled with the breakthrough to more adult football, as they just were not physically able for the PL.
Dani Pacheco, Kristian Nemeth, Dalli Valle, are just some of the hype and then bust players. Jon Flanagan and Conor Coady were widely lauded, but neither will make it at the highest level, and it remains to be seen if Andre Wisdom will either.

So the LFC academy really will need another 10 years before it can be properly judged, as it really is still in it's infancy, and hasn't produced anything yet.

You know alot more than I do so I'm bowing to you my good sir!!

I guess what I would say is that Liverpool are trying to sign players that are very good footballers, whether they are from Lisbon or Listowel.
15/10/2013, 3:40 PM
Bungle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emmet7

Our best talent does indeed go to Academies like Liverpool but they rarely make it into the first team. They are usually loaned out at 18, 19 or 20 then end up playing championship or league one where hoof ball is the norm. Even in the lower divisions in Spain I'd imagine they try to play ball. Barcelona reserves play in the spanish second division for example. It's all about habits and philosophy. 30% of the EPL are English players, mostly defenders and goalies. Their academies aren't as cracked up as they are supposed to be.

Fair point that. I actually think that we produce quite alot of very gifted ball players. When they don't make the grade for various reasons at the big clubs, they go down the divisions or back to the LOI, where technique and skill is less in demand.

I do wonder how good a player McPhail for one may have been if he was at Ajax.
15/10/2013, 4:03 PM
OwlsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bungle

I do wonder how good a player McPhail for one may have been if he was at Ajax.

Better than he is at Sheffield Wednesday I hope.
15/10/2013, 5:15 PM
geysir

The song could have gone
'By the time I got to Sheffield, my talent was all burnt out'
15/10/2013, 5:22 PM
Kingdom

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/socc...stan-1.1560801

Last line is interesting; does it confirm the Cryuff rumours?
15/10/2013, 7:30 PM
DannyInvincible

So, has Cruyff been spotted at the game or what?
15/10/2013, 7:40 PM
Charlie Darwin

Quote:

Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

So, has Cruyff been spotted at the game or what?

If the FAI want Cruyff to take charge, they'll do well to keep him as far away from the game as they can.
15/10/2013, 10:31 PM
ArdeeBhoy

Ha ha.

If it's him, it's gonna end in more tears.
16/10/2013, 9:57 AM
BonnieShels

So did anyone see him last night?
16/10/2013, 11:34 AM
Crosby87

Don't let Denis O'Brien choose next manager, insists one reporter:
http://www.football.co.uk/republic_o...s4447705.shtml
16/10/2013, 11:48 AM
DannyInvincible

Pretty sure that's a Sunderland-based writer from Derry if that's the Paddy Appleton I know. Anyway,you appear to have misread him. Denis O'Brien is not and will not be involved in the consultation or selection process. Houghton and Dokter are the duo tasked with selecting our new manager. O'Brien wasn't involved in the selection of Trap either. He's just providing the necessary funds.
16/10/2013, 11:50 AM
Emmet7

My own choice would be someone from Spain or familiar with the game in Spain - Michael Laudrap or the guy now managing Southampton would have been ideal. But I'd say there are dozens more like them out there. They are light years ahead of the hoof ball merchants rared in the British game like O'Neill and McCarthy.
16/10/2013, 12:03 PM
DannyInvincible

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emmet7

the guy now managing Southampton

Pochettino might even have Irish roots; he's from a town called Murphy in Santa Fe!
16/10/2013, 12:15 PM
ArdeeBhoy

Much as I love Houghton, should he be involved either?

And would the S'ton lad want to manage Ireland, a ridiculous salary aside?
16/10/2013, 12:20 PM
back of the net

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emmet7

They are light years ahead of the hoof ball merchants rared in the British game like O'Neill and McCarthy.

When I think back on McCarthys Ireland Reign , hoofball is the last thing that comes to mind
16/10/2013, 2:16 PM
brine3

Morten Olsen might be moving on soon enough...
16/10/2013, 2:45 PM
Closed Account 2

If he did I think we should give him serious consideration, he did very well with Denmark in the Euros and to get to the World Cup before that. Even this campaign finishing 2nd behind Italy is fair enough.

Stimac is as good as gone from Croatia, talk of Niko Kovac or maybe Igor Tudor replacing him. I wouldnt touch Stimac myself as he has taken what was on paper one of the best teams at Euro 2012 and turned them into a team that has lost home and away to Scotland - it also suggests how much better Bilic was. Poland have got shot of Waldemar Fornalik and Sandor Egervari has left Hungary. Koller's kept his job as Austria manager, but he is being heavily linked with the vacant role at Nurnburg after Wiesinger was sacked after losing 5-0 at home to Hamburg (in Bert Van Maarwijk's first game in charge for them), so Austria could also be on the look out for a new manager.
16/10/2013, 3:07 PM
Stuttgart88

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo

Stimac ....turned Croatia into a team that has lost home and away to Scotland - it also suggests how much better Bilic was

I think that might show what Strachan has brought to Scotland. They look a far better outfit than under Levein, as did Wales under Speed rather than Coleman. What all this suggests to me is that we don't need a genius tactician from some far flung land, we need someone who can motivate and organise with a decent understanding of the modern game. Does MCCarthy fit that bill?
16/10/2013, 3:33 PM
Emmet7

Quote:

Originally Posted by back of the net

When I think back on McCarthys Ireland Reign , hoofball is the last thing that comes to mind

So Niall Quinn was in the team for his silky skills on the deck? When we were losing to Germany and Spain WC 2002 the tactic was hoof it long to the big man.
16/10/2013, 3:57 PM
back of the net

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emmet7

So Niall Quinn was in the team for his silky skills on the deck? When we were losing to Germany and Spain WC 2002 the tactic was hoof it long to the big man.

Niall Quinn's skills were quite good actually.

If your basing McCarthys playing philosphy as hoofball on your above mail then you are deluded sir.

When we were losing to spain in WC 2002 - we most certainly DID NOT hoof the ball
16/10/2013, 3:59 PM
IsMiseSean

There's hoofball and then there's constant hoofball which Trap seem to enjoy
16/10/2013, 4:01 PM
Charlie Darwin

We hoofed it in moderation but we also had Damien Duff in his pomp who was a guaranteed out-ball. Point is we had the team set up to play the ball short or long, which forces the opposition to think a little bit more than just punting it up as soon as you get it.
16/10/2013, 4:21 PM
back of the net

We had some great players in their pomp Charlie - agreed .

But I think classifying Micks playing philosphhy as Ireland manager as per Emmets "hoofball" does a big disservice to Mick and his general playing style
16/10/2013, 4:56 PM
BonnieShels

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emmet7

So Niall Quinn was in the team for his silky skills on the deck? When we were losing to Germany and Spain WC 2002 the tactic was hoof it long to the big man.

You’re behind in the closing stages of a group game of a World Cup and a Second Round match... do you:

a. Try and pass it around and hope to get a break in a rigid German defence or a Spanish one we had trouble breaking down for the entire game
or
b. Hoof it long to a one of the most talented players we have who is an expert at taking knockdowns in the hope that one of them breaks to the most potent goalscorer that Ireland has ever produced?

Yeah! Tiki-bleedin’-taka all the way!
16/10/2013, 5:06 PM
Stuttgart88

I wouldn't agree with Emmet's description of hoofball but my recollection is that Mick is practically wedded to 442. I know he did some experiments early in his tenure and I suppose it's fair to say 442 was perfect for the players we had back then, but I'd have some concern that Mick doesn't really have the thorough understanding of other shapes. I liked King's thinking wrt 4231, but felt Doyle took away from the balance with negative effect.
16/10/2013, 5:11 PM
Charlie Darwin

McCarthy's preferred formation is 442 but he changed to 451 for a good spell when Wolves were in the Premier League. I think he only really did it when Doyle was available though, and reverted back to 442 when Fletcher was signed.
16/10/2013, 5:20 PM
back of the net

442 was his ireland choice. It was his tried and trusted after a few other experimentations....thinking in particular against iceland and macedonia at home in wc98 quals and croatia away in euro 2000.
16/10/2013, 8:07 PM
Stuttgart88

I'm thinking more and more Roy Keane. You won't have players moaning about being away for 10 days without playing for a start! I think I he'd provide more of an adrenaline shot rather than a more cerebral improvement but the players would go onto the pitch on a mission. There'd be less of this self defeatist nonsense from some of the players too. The FAI would be shaken out of complacency. And there'd be such a massive falling out and ensuing civil war part 2 in a couple of years we'll be able to waste more hours yapping on the internet.
16/10/2013, 8:23 PM
Charlie Darwin

Could dahamsta afford the hosting fees such an appointment would bring about?
16/10/2013, 8:26 PM
geysir

It would be a distraction from the antics of the panel.
16/10/2013, 10:30 PM
brine3

Quote:

Originally Posted by back of the net

442 was his ireland choice. It was his tried and trusted after a few other experimentations....thinking in particular against iceland and macedonia at home in wc98 quals and croatia away in euro 2000.

We were playing 4-5-2 when Roy Keane was on the pitch, how could we lose.
16/10/2013, 10:39 PM
back of the net

Quote:

Originally Posted by brine3

We were playing 4-5-2 when Roy Keane was on the pitch, how could we lose.

we wud get docked the 3points by fifa or uefa though
16/10/2013, 11:43 PM
Fixer82

Quote:

Originally Posted by back of the net

442 was his ireland choice. It was his tried and trusted after a few other experimentations....thinking in particular against iceland and macedonia at home in wc98 quals and croatia away in euro 2000.

Football has changed since then.
Very few international teams seem married to 4-4-2 any more. Plus we had Roy in the middle of the park commanding play and winning ball better than any irish midfielder has done since
16/10/2013, 11:50 PM
ArdeeBhoy

It's all down to the manager though and their choice, rather than the current tactical fad. And hopefully someone who can get the best out of a rather limited squad.
17/10/2013, 12:37 AM
Crosby87

Off topic but looks like Bob Bradley (Who guided the US to the top of the group over England in WC '10) Got the Sports Illustrated treatment. Glowing article, abject failure.
Article made it sound like he was pretty much the only sane voice in all of Egypt, and would take them to the WC amid all the death, after a home and home vs Ghana.
A bald american visiting cancer patients.
TBH I enjoyed it. I looked and Africa play is only six games?
Egypt were 6-0.
Now I look and Egypt lost 6-1 or something. To Ghana.
SI curse is real.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soc...bradley-egypt/
17/10/2013, 6:46 AM
ifk101

Maybe time to change your name to Off Topic.
17/10/2013, 8:57 AM
Kingdom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I think that might show what Strachan has brought to Scotland. They look a far better outfit than under Levein, as did Wales under Speed rather than Coleman. What all this suggests to me is that we don't need a genius tactician from some far flung land, we need someone who can motivate and organise with a decent understanding of the modern game. Does MCCarthy fit that bill?

I'm not so sure Stutts. Scotland have been quite a mess for a while, so there was really only one direction that Strachan was going to be able to take them. and while I'm going to seriously stereotype Croatia here, you would have to question their motivation in 2013 - they've taken 1 point from their last 4 group games, and still cantered to 2nd spot - which was sealed by beating Serbia back in March. That said it will be interesting to see how well they do in the next set of qualifiers.

Coleman is just a bad manager. It was always going to end badly with Wales, particularly when he didn't appear to be the choice of the players.

European football has become tougher since Mick resigned, certainly at International level. Remove Spain, Germany, Holland, Russia and probably Italy, and then remove San Marino, Luxembourg, Andorra, Liechtenstein and Malta (i.e. the incredibly strong and weak) and there really isn't a lot to choose from the 40 odd teams left when they are broken into the seedings. Lots of the second seeded teams would fancy themselves at England, Greece.

Even looking at our group this time out. Austria took us in Vienna, and Sweden too. Sweden took us in Dublin, while Kazakhstan did a number on both. That's been replicated throughout groups this past decade. We'll need motivation and organisation as you say, that's fair enough, but when the whole of Europe is playing some form of either 451/4321/4231 then we need a manager that is tactically savvy.
Mick struggled not because of the fall out over Saipan - he struggled because when faced with Hakan Yakin lying deep, and Loskov doing the same for Russia.
17/10/2013, 9:06 AM
Duggie

im in the john giles school of thinking, formations arent that important IMO. 4-5-1, 4-4-2, 4-3-2-1 or whatever. it still amount to 11 v 11. you play it as you see it and if your good enough you will get your rewards. now every game is different and if you need to dig in you dig in but im with gilsey on the formation thing. football is a simple game, dont overthink it.

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