Eligibility Rules, Okay

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Except I answered them in the two previous posts....you are wrong about eligibility via residency and Irish citizens (including children) being allowed to take up citizenship of certain other countries.

So what, anyway?

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No, you didn't.

Residency alone does not make you eligible to play for any international team - it is a prerequisite that you hold the Nationality of the country you wish to represent.

That is not "wrong".

I have not intimated at all that Irish Citizens are not able to take up Citizenship of "certain other countries".

You have failed to answer the question posed in that regard, preferring to revert to the standard "so what".

I'll ask for the third and final time:

What other countries can a kid born and resident in Dublin choose to represent (assuming his parents and grandparents are solely Irish Citizens)?

No you're wrong.
And learn to read!

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

No you're wrong.
And learn to read!

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I can read, thanks.

So, you believe that residency alone allows you to play international football, and "all football at that level a matter of 'choice".

Deary me.:D

No, but if you're deluded enough to believe that, it's up to you.

'Deary me'. ;)

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

No, but if you're deluded enough to believe that, it's up to you.

'Deary me'. ;)

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A cute edit of post 1107# this afternoon, mo chara.;)

You're beginning to get the hang of this eligibility thingy - small steps mind, but progress all the same.

Get back to me when you've found an answer to my question about the Dublin kid, and his choices.

PS. It's 5 years, not 6, after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the relevant Association.

Except I've already answered it.

But for whatever reason you're choosing to ignore which is up to you.

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Except I've already answered it.

But for whatever reason you're choosing to ignore which is up to you.

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Right - I've found your answer.

"Also there's nothing in most cases to stop people taking up citizenship of another country, as know Irish citizens who have dual citizenship which would then open up eligibility where applicable, eg. Australia, the US, Canada, S.Africa etc."

We'll try again.

Our subject is a Dublin born young player, who lives in Dublin, has never lived outside the island of Ireland, and does not intend moving to Australia, the US, Canada, S. Africa etc at this point in time.

His parents are solely Irish Citizens, as are his grandparents - all being born and bred in the Republic of Ireland, and resident there.

What choices has the kid got at International level?

If there's "nothing in most cases to stop people taking up citizenship of another country", can I take out Italian Citizenship?

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

What choices has the kid got at International level?

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Assuming the kid wants to play international football for another country, the only option he has is to emigrate upon reaching the age of 18 and live continuously for at least five years on the territory of the relevant Association.


Over to you AB.

It is I think what 'The Fly' says, which is common knowledge in sporting circles.
What is the controversy about that anyway?

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Originally Posted by The Fly

Assuming the kid wants to play international football for another country, the only option he has is to emigrate upon reaching the age of 18 and live continuously for at least five years on the territory of the relevant Association.

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...and obtains the Nationality of the country he wants to represent - which, in many instances, is not guaranteed on account of continued residency.

That's you and me both "wrong", according to the Bhoy from Ardee, Mr Fly.;)

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

Our subject is a Dublin born young player, who lives in Dublin, has never lived outside the island of Ireland, and does not intend moving to Australia, the US, Canada, S. Africa etc at this point in time.

His parents are solely Irish Citizens, as are his grandparents - all being born and bred in the Republic of Ireland, and resident there.

What choices has the kid got at International level?

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His choices are those countries he has permanent citizenship for.

Or, if he gains a new citizenship then he has to satisfy residency requirements.

I've maybe missed why both of you appear to be acting so obtusely.

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Originally Posted by Irwin3

His choices are those countries he has permanent citizenship for.

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ie. in the case of our subject, he has no choice.

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

ie. in the case of our subject, he has no choice.

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yes he does. He can choose to play for the team he qualifies for or he can choose to not play.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

yes he does. He can choose to play for the team he qualifies for or he can choose to not play.

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Hang on - it's me and AB being obtuse.:D

...But if he wishes to play international football, he has no choice other than to play for the one country he is eligible to play for.

unless he is eligible or becomes eligible for another country due to some change beyond his control... ;)

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Originally Posted by SkStu

unless he is eligible or becomes eligible for another country due to some change beyond his control... ;)

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We are now entering the twilight zone.....

.....hello AB.

Do not adjust your tv set.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

unless he is eligible or becomes eligible for another country due to some change beyond his control... ;)

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Have you not heard anything about the United Kingdom reclaiming the territory of the 26 Counties, and extending Citizenship to all it's people, from birth?;)

Clearly there was an error with the medication...

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

His parents are solely Irish Citizens, as are his grandparents - all being born and bred in the Republic of Ireland, and resident there.

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He's probably very ugly.

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

We'll try again.

Our subject is a Dublin born young player, who lives in Dublin, has never lived outside the island of Ireland, and does not intend moving to Australia, the US, Canada, S. Africa etc at this point in time.

His parents are solely Irish Citizens, as are his grandparents - all being born and bred in the Republic of Ireland, and resident there.

What choices has the kid got at International level?

If there's "nothing in most cases to stop people taking up citizenship of another country", can I take out Italian Citizenship?

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Unless you are indulging in irrelevant trivia, your question is a red herring, as it isn't about the republic, it's about irish nationals born in the dual national north.
Nationality is the compulsory criteria for playing international football
The dual nationality status in the north is a constitutionally agreed principle, agreed by 85%? of the people on the island.

The comedy continues...


My bad. Fixed.

Link's broken: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sp...-16034655.html it is.

Love this line from Gerry:

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“Players have gone to the Republic and come back to Northern Ireland because they didn’t like it.

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Translation: "They didn't have a hope of getting a game."

A fight to secure loyalty?

Surely the IFA would be better off figuring out why the likes of James McLean doesn't want to play for their representative team?

Because heretofore they've managed to ignore it.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Link's broken: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sp...-16034655.html it is.

Love this line from Gerry:



Translation: "They didn't have a hope of getting a game."

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To the best of my knowledge, only two players have ever returned from the FAI to the IFA after failing to formalise a switch south because they failed to make a competitive appearance. They'd be Tony Kane and Michael O'Connor.

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Originally Posted by BonnieShels

Surely the IFA would be better off figuring out why the likes of James McLean doesn't want to play for their representative team?

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Indeed. Given that he's already played for our U-21 team seven times as an adult.

If Armstrong, or anyone, can address the problem of players effectively retiring (whether or not they have a realistic chance of playing for the RoI's senior team) it must be a good thing.

Surely we already know.

And who's "retiring" ??

As he was already part of the IFA's set up why would he have quit that to needlessly get involved with the FAI's?

Playing for the U21's again and again wasn't going to affect his eligibility for his senior National team so there's nothing to be gained by him quitting that set up at all.

The next stage is what really matters.
He was called into a squad for a team he had no intention of ever playing for.
Was he informed of his selection before the announcement? I doubt it. But even at that it seems like he did have to make a decision which took him 3 days. Why would we expect him to rush into it?

You get to play competitively once and then you're tied. It's not a decision to be taken lightly.

The apoplectic nature of OWC fans responses to young Nationalists choosing to play for their country is quite something and doesn't lend itself to reversing this so called trend.

I wonder if the choices were between Scotland and the statelet would they react so vehemently against the decision to play for Ecosse.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Unless you are indulging in irrelevant trivia, your question is a red herring, as it isn't about the republic, it's about irish nationals born in the dual national north.
Nationality is the compulsory criteria for playing international football
The dual nationality status in the north is a constitutionally agreed principle, agreed by 85%? of the people on the island.

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I was engaging AB regarding his, spurious, assertion that all players at that level had a choice - clearly, that it not the case.

I am wholly aware of the choices avasilable to Northern Irish born, dual nationals.

I'm glad you agree with me that nationality is the compulsory criterion for playing international football - I was told earlier in the thread, repeadedly, that this fact was "wrong".

Such dual nationality was the case long before circa 85% of this island (who voted) constitutionaly rubber stamped it.

As I have consistently, and repeadedly, stated - given the outworking of the FIFA Eligibility Statutes, I want the IFA to concentrate the core of their development in players whose ambition is to further their career with Northern Ireland at senior international level - and to weed out those who do not harbour such ambitions.

Paul Rowan has a piece in the Sunday Times about how "more must be done to stem the flow" of Irish nationals playing for the Irish national team. He doesn't seem to make much of a point.

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Originally Posted by BonnieShels

As he was already part of the IFA's set up why would he have quit that to needlessly get involved with the FAI's?

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I don't know. Maybe he's confident of getting senior RoI caps, maybe he's getting a bit carried away by his transfer to England.

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there's nothing to be gained by him quitting that set up at all

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I'm talking about what's lost, not gained. For him, likelihood international football quite soon, for the NI side a useful squad member.

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The next stage is what really matters

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Both stages matter.

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He was called into a squad for a team he had no intention of ever playing for

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How do you know? Apart from the U-21 caps, were he as adamant as you claim presumably he'd have called NW immediately to correct any misunderstanding. Rather than wasting time for three days.

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Why would we expect him to rush into it?

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There'd be no need if (as you suggest above) he'd already made the decision.

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The apoplectic nature of OWC fans responses to young Nationalists choosing to play for their country is quite something

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Present company excepted, I hope? I'm quite sanguine about it. Although of course I'm disappointed by young NI players abandoning NI to play for other countries, particularly when they've already amassed numerous U-21 caps. And most irritatingly when they ar*se about, like McClean did after the squad was announced.

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and doesn't lend itself to reversing this so called trend

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Maybe not. I'm content to see how Armstrong gets on. And unlike some I'd prefer the IFA to have a good working relationship with the FAI. Even the latter continue to pick already capped NI players for their teams.

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I wonder if the choices were between Scotland and the statelet would they react so vehemently against the decision to play for Ecosse

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Ha ha. I imagine they'd be equally irritated; I certainly would. The closest recent, comparable example shows Scottish fans reacting thus when a couple of young players left for the RoI.

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Originally Posted by BonnieShels

Playing for the U21's again and again wasn't going to affect his eligibility for his senior National team so there's nothing to be gained by him quitting that set up at all.
The next stage is what really matters.
He was called into a squad for a team he had no intention of ever playing for.

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The "next stage" is that players thus minded have no stage with the IFA at Under 21 level - if they have "no intention" of ever playing for the senior team, they should be ignored or weeded out of our ranks.

If you don't want to carry through to senior international level, get out...now!

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Originally Posted by Gather round

Ha ha. I imagine they'd be equally irritated; I certainly would. The closest recent, comparable example shows Scottish fans reacting thus when a couple of young players left for the RoI.

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Aidan McGeady is hardly a "cult hero" amongst the Tartan Army.:D

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Originally Posted by Gather round

I don't know. Maybe he's confident of getting senior RoI caps, maybe he's getting a bit carried away by his transfer to England.
I'm talking about what's lost, not gained. For him, likelihood international football quite soon, for the NI side a useful squad member.Both stages matter.
How do you know? Apart from the U-21 caps, were he as adamant as you claim presumably he'd have called NW immediately to correct any misunderstanding. Rather than wasting time for three days.
There'd be no need if (as you suggest above) he'd already made the decision.

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Nothing new to rehash then??

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Although of course I'm disappointed by young NI players abandoning NI to play for other countries, particularly when they've already amassed numerous U-21 caps. And most irritatingly when they ar*se about, like McClean did after the squad was announced.

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Presumably none of the North's fans complain when players eligible for them come in the other direction from other, er, jurisdictions....

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And unlike some I'd prefer the IFA to have a good working relationship with the FAI. Even the latter continue to pick already capped NI players for their teams.

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You mean players that are Eligible...
;)

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The closest recent, comparable example shows Scottish fans reacting thus when a couple of young players left for the RoI.

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Like who, exactly?

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

To the best of my knowledge, only two players have ever returned from the FAI to the IFA after failing to formalise a switch south because they failed to make a competitive appearance. They'd be Tony Kane and Michael O'Connor.

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Kane didn't make it in England, he was released by Carlisle, played a few games for Cliftonville at the end of last season before signing a one year deal with Ballymena United

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Originally Posted by Gather round

If Armstrong, or anyone, can address the problem of players effectively retiring (whether or not they have a realistic chance of playing for the RoI's senior team) it must be a good thing.

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Armstrong's remit also involves scouring Australia, America, Britain etc.. looking for anyone with a link to the IFA team.

Is there any point in the IFA employing someone to persuade a few Northern born players to stay within the IFA set-up when their focus is firmly on bringing in players born from outside.

For example, half the North's U21 team that played on Wednesday night were born in England.

I saw a quote a couple of days ago from a family member of a player from the North who has opted to play for Ireland, who said that most of these young lads have never heard of Gerry Armstrong.

The IFA still don't seem to get it!

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Originally Posted by co. down green

Is there any point in the IFA employing someone to persuade a few Northern born players to stay within the IFA set-up when their focus is firmly on bringing in players born from outside

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Don't be silly. Their focus will always be mainly players from inside. Although they realise the need to be flexible and look outside too. I'd prefer we didn't cap people with England U-19 and U-21 caps, as I've said here repeatedly, but clearly that's a minority view now.

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a family member of a player from the North who has opted to play for Ireland, who said that most of these young lads have never heard of Gerry Armstrong

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Ha ha. Doesn't your mate or his young friends watch TV?

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Originally Posted by Predator

Paul Rowan has a piece in the Sunday Times about how "more must be done to stem the flow" of Irish nationals playing for the Irish national team. He doesn't seem to make much of a point.

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A scan tomorrow perhaps?

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Originally Posted by Gather round

Don't be silly. Their focus will always be mainly players from inside. Although they realise the need to be flexible and look outside too. I'd prefer we didn't cap people with England U-19 and U-21 caps, as I've said here repeatedly, but clearly that's a minority view now.

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Surely like most teams they'll take whoever's Eligible from wherever??

And 'Repeatedly', surely not...
:rolleyes:

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Doesn't your mate or his young friends watch TV?

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Bar the 25th anniversary of their last WCF appearance in the last month or, why would most teenagers have heard of GA?
With respect to him, he was hardly George Best or even David Healy...