I don't think Whelan was really good in the last campaign. The midfield rarely imposed itself and it was one of the weakest links in the team. He was ok say 6/7 out of 10.
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I don't think Whelan was really good in the last campaign. The midfield rarely imposed itself and it was one of the weakest links in the team. He was ok say 6/7 out of 10.
not in every match - but he had some stand out performances. some goal v italy aswell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia
on another note, anyone got a link to highlights of last night's match? i need to take another look at that dunne clearance. as good as any goal we've scored this campaign!
Highlights hereQuote:
Originally Posted by zero
Edit: Just watched that link, not a great clip
6 or 7 out of 10 for a player who was not really good, who rarely imposed himself and one of the weakest links in the team??Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia
I'd say you were a tad generous with your rating.
I always had the impression you were a fan of Whelan Geysir? I don't know why I thought that?!
I think his point in this case was more related to the rating Paddy gave after saying he basically did nothing the last campaign
Whelan was a 6 out of 10 last campaign!
I assumed it was a fraction (6/7ths out of 10)Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
sounds about rightQuote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I'm not sure if this is discussed elsewhere but did anyone else read David Kelly's article in the Indo today? My god it was purile stuff. Pat Spillane mentioned puke football in the GAA, this was puke journalism. How does he still have a job?
Here are a few snippets;
"Lucky general ain't the half of it.
But, then, such is the often strange beauty of this sport. Even when pock-marked with the ugly imprint of an inflexible utilitarian like Trapattoni, there's always a chance for those who don't want to play the game.
The Rugby World Cup will not allow such a mismatch to be unrepresentative on the scoreboard. Nor would hurling. Nor any field sport for that matter.
Soccer is the only field game where one can get absolutely battered for 90 minutes, cede twice as much possession to the opposition, lose the corner count 12-1, conceded 28 attempts on goal, and still blithely skip away beneath the cover of darkness with a 0-0 draw."
"His utter control of his team has extended to all reaches of his squad, with captain Robbie Keane the chief cheerleader for his leader's soulless approach to the game.
An interesting vignette before Tuesday's game reflects the vast gulf that exists between the players and management.
Kevin Doyle (pictured below) and Stephen Hunt were walking from the plastic pitch after a little stroll some 90 minutes before kick-off. Trapattoni and Marco Tardelli were standing in congress at the side of the pitch. Doyle and Hunt walked past the Italian duo, heads bowed, not even inviting a greeting or deigning to offer the briefest word.
The context of this (non) exchange came later. Doyle was withdrawn -- Trapattoni had bizarrely replaced him with another striker -- and the Wexford man afterwards spoke in clipped, disconsolate tones to the radio reporters in the mixed zone."
"This Ireland team remains an affront to those of us who appreciate freedom of expression in our sport, but there is still time for some of its leading characters to help us enjoy the ride a little more.
If this past week represents the future of Irish football, it seems like a pretty dull place. Sport isn't always about fables, it is true. But does the real world have to be so pallid?"
What a load of cow dung. He talks about the Rugby World Cup being fair. There's a max of ten competitive rugby nations in the world. Then he has his customary pointless dig at Keane over nothing. After that, he states that because Doyle and Hunt didn't high five Trap on their way past him, there must be trouble brewing in the camp!
Give me a break.
That was a difficult read Lionel. sort your quoting out. But I take your point.
It has all been said before about Kelly. This article is bad, but the one about Keane was worse.
This is the very point that makes "Soccer" the best sport of them all. Shocks and real upsets can often on a more than infrequent basis. How the RWC would love more than even one surprise result in the whole of the competition!!! Similarly hurling.Quote:
Originally Posted by lionelhutz
You could argue that soccer is in such a nature that not always the best teams win. I think that certainly has a point on a one off game but generally over a tournament/league the best team wins. Some might point to Greece in 2004. Yes Greece were not the most skillful or had the most flair but they were the most tactically astute and best organised given their resources.
Freedom of expression in sport. Yes we would love to express ourselves more and attack Russia away from home but for what to get hammered 5-0. Id sooner take an organised defensive performance and a result. (Im not saying Tuesday night was organised, that was alot of luck also). But the one thing that Trap has is an organised team - for many of us with a few improvements in midfield in particular, this team could reach further heights - remains to be seen.
The rugby world cup does tend to have surprise results to be fair. Argentina's entire campaign in 2007, along with England beating Australia, France beating New Zealand and Argentina slaughtering France for the second time. His point was that a game can't be so spectacularly lopsided and not be reflected on the scoreboard, which is a fair point considering that Robbie could have won it for us at the death were it not for a great Shirakov interception.
Apologies about the quoting. I've never got the hang of it!Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
Well said. The beauty of soccer is that the underdog can win or draw. High scoring sports don't have that factor, for the most part.Quote:
Originally Posted by elroy
We expressed ourselves under Stan. The players high-fived Stan.
None of us can deny that we lack enterprise, and it's becoming a worry for me, but Kelly just can't let this point go. He's been banging on about it when it hasn't been warranted, and just because we put in two unenterprising performances in a row he thinks he's flippin Socrates with his worldly insights.
Random point, but I think that Andrews would be a much better contributor with a better midfielder alongside him, moreso than the other way round with Whelan.
Gibson or Fahey?
I'm glad Meyler was mentioned in another thread. Wilson is another who could play deep midfield.
I would be tempted to play O'Shea in midfield again.
So having read Kelly's rant about soccer in comparison to other sports, I started to think to myself; If Ireland were a team/player in any other sport, who would they be?
Heres who I came up with:
GAA: The Donegal footballers
Irish football resembles whats great about Ulster football. Combatitive, dogged, relentless work rate and continual pressurising of opponents. When it comes to creative inspiration, we are lacking. Determination and work rate alone, will insure you go far but will always inevitably come up short for the big prize.
Rugby: The Georgians
Formidable opponents (as we learned in 2007). Play with spirit and tenacity, strong in the challenge and defend for their lives but still remain on the fringes of the elite teams in the world.
Snooker: Peter Ebdon
Hard on the eye for the purists of the sport. Patient, methodical, conservative style and at times very predictable, yet still extremely frustrating to play against and eternally difficult to grind down.
Horse Racing: Ruby Walsh
Battered and bruised from battle but still never give up and will be comepetive for the entire duration of the game.
Golf: Sergio Garcia
Solid and consistant but when it comes to the crunch, does not possess the mental strenght to beat the best.
Tennis: Ivo Karlovic
A one trick pony and extremely predictable, yet still difficult to play against. Aggressive from the off (serve) yet often lacks imagination when the ball is returned to him.
Athletics: The sport of Athletics
Subject of much media scrutiny and criticism and many fans have turned their back on the sport. Yet still the sport prevails and continues to provide enjoyment to the loyal fans who have been there through thick and thin.
Anyone have any other analogies? Was trying to find a boxing anology but fell short there?
I'd go along with that, I think he would improve things. Trap is quoted in the I-Paper today as realising how very lucky we were, how he had hoped we could win but as it panned out, were highly fortunate with a point, so maybe we will see a change in there. It's going to cost us soon, a side who just cant gain a foothold in the middle will surely take a hiding at some point, we couldnt even do it to a point where our back four get a breather to line up again the other night, let alone to an extent where we could ask some questions of the opponent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I would like to hear what Trap really thinks of his midfield options, I realise he cannot say this publicly as it would not be a team bonding moment, but I bet he knows better than anyone. Will he look at the alternatives though?
Wayne mccullough.
Or Matthew macklin.
Any sport really that a Irish person participates in.its just an Irish trait or traits what you have pointed out. Good analogies though.
Possibly Fahey, maybe even McCarthy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
McGrath: We need to add steel to midfield
This is the kind of clarity and insight that strikes when one takes to singing on Curracloe beach. Let's get Trap down there pronto.
Never mind Whelan, Gibson, O'Shea, Wilson, Andrews et al.
For all their other flaws, would give half my left little toe for a sane and committed Stephen Ireland or a fit Andy Reid...
Watching us these days is like watching paint dry. Regardless of some impressive results. Or not conceding etc.
Ultimately this will prove our undoing as GT has NO credible 'Plan B'.
:(
Sane and committed or not, Stephen Ireland hasn't played a decent game of football in almost 18 months. Andy Reid's downturn of form ain't promising ethther. Plus neither would work in the current system. Which is why I certainly agree with you on a plan B - we have the players not to be constantly heart-in-mouth when playing a half decent team.
But those two things simply dont exist anymore, some would say they never existed... Andy Reid doesnt have the stamina for top level football, and he hasnt really had it for a good 2-3 years. Stephen Ireland doesnt have a degree of sanity in his body and his ability is on the slide too. You may as well say we would like a midfield of Sheridan and Townsend from the 1990s vintage.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Oh yes I can see it now "Just one cornetto..." - bought of course from Colm Meany's van with the glories of Italia 90 as a wistful subplot. It all fits.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sullivinho
Thing is, I think thats too simplistic a view of things. I'm not saying either player would have blossomed or flourished under traps guidance, but you can't say they wouldn't have either. Looking at the current team, playing first team for your club does not mean you won't perform for Ireland. Ill bring you back to your argument witih IFK101 about Sledger.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...p-2871840.html
Hard to argue with some of the points made by lawton, but he takes the obvious easy approach - SI and Andy reid.
But it did get me thinking, how would he have handled Roy Keane, a man he could obviously not have treated like Andy Reid?
In fairness, ones's a decent bloke with a cr*p diet and the other's an egotistical assh*le...
;)
am shocked such a realistic article appeared in the independent. reality at lastQuote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
roy wouldve been glad to be part of traps squad i would imagine given he is getting the most out of the team and performing to our limits, all Keane ever wanted.
the current Irish team wouldnt ship half the criticism it does with keane in the team as he would sort out our main problem straight away, ctre mid
Generous to a fault.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I take the Kennedy view of a 6 or 7 out of 10.
That's too speculative for me. You're right, club form isn't the ultimate guide, but I think cases like Sledge are the exception and not the rule. There will always be a case to be made on drafting them in based on their natural ability but their form has been iffy for so long I think it damages their claim.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
I'd be happy to see either of them back (well maybe not happy re Ireland) but they both have to make any kind of case for inclusion first...
I heard an interesting comment on the radio the other night from a journalist who reports on Eastern European football. I didn't catch his name and I caught only the end of the interview but his view on Armenia's victory against Slovakia was that Armenia's young team are quick up front and were able to get behind the Slovak defence.
The reason I thought it was an interesting comment is that after only 6 or 7 minutes of our game against Slovakia it was apparent to me that we were in for a long night given Slovakia had set themselves up beautifully with the two holding midfielders sitting just in front of their back four thereby affording our forwards no space at all. I didn't see the Slovakia v Armenia game but I presume the Slovaks didn't play the same formation and instead pushed the back four farther up the pitch thereby leaving space behind.
As the words were coming out of the journalist's mouth about Armenia getting behind the Slovak defence I had a little chuckle inside, anticipating the journalist's next statement as to the likelihood of Trap setting us up with the back four closer to the half-way line. He didn't disappoint!
I am concerned that the Armenians are in-form and appear to have the spirit and togetherness to match our own, and if I was Armenian I would burst at the excitement of being on the cusp of emerging from relative international soccer obscurity to possible tournament qualification. Our game with them is now immense. I'm just glad it isn't a dead rubber, which was always a possibility when the draw was made. Remember the last game of the previous tournament, Montenegro?
And do you remember years ago when yer mammy said a snooker cue was too big a present for yer birthday, it had to be a joint birthday and Christmas present?
Well, I couldn't wish for a better joint birthday, Christmas, Easter and Ramadan present than Ireland entering the Armenia game with a great chance of emerging from the group, could you?
One thing I'm not sure has been mentioned here is the pressure that is now on the Armenians. It is colossal. Remember that up to Tuesday, the notion that they would be qualifying was fanciful in the extreme - not impossible, but highly improbable. Now though, on the back of a fantastic victory, and what on paper seems to be a straightforward match against Macedonia, they'll head to Dublin with qualification a real possibility. For their first ever finals. That is incredible pressure to be under. It remains to be seen whether they will not buckle under it. Don't be surprised if Macedonia were to etch out a result like they did in matchday 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy the Dog
I agree about the Armenia game not being a dead rubber. The analogy of the Montenegrin game was the exact one I made with my long term Ireland partner on Tuesday. We didn't perform that day as much down to the anti-climax of the Italy game as the non-importance of our own game. That said, if we have to beat Armenia to win the group, irrespective of other results, I'm 100% confident we'll do it, regardless also whether Armenia need a result or not.
Keane would have loved playing in this team under Trap. The vintage Keane of of late 90's into 2000 and beyond would have loved a Trap as manager. No doubt about it. If we had the vintage Roy Keane now we would be major contenders to win the Euros never mind qualify. And whoever played alongside Keane whether Andrews or Whelan would look almost world class. We need to unearth a top class midfield player or better again one of the younger players such as McCarthy improve to such a standard that Trap will play them.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Keane would have been bowing at Trap's lotus feet at the beginning of every squad meet up. Trap would have been claiming that 'the players are like my children but Keane is my Spartacus'.
And let's not forget that Trap had two of the best creative attacking midfielders of their day in his team, Brady succeeded by Platini.
Hypothetical I know but it would be interesting to see where Myler would have fitted in the scheme of things if he did not have that serious injury.
That Wilson can play as a defensive midfielder was a good mention by someone but I suppose he would have to be playing this role for Stoke for Trap to judge him in this role.
If lets say we did play 3 midfielders (Is that Traps fire and brimstone I hear stirring) which winger would have to make way !
Well I wouldn't be foregoing a winger. I would be dropping Robbie back into a middle 5.
I suppose Duffer could supply some back-up goal threat (sort of replacing what we would be losing by Robbie playing deeper) but unfortunately Aiden does not carry a lot of goal threat or any other of the wingers for that matter (maybe Treacy or is that just me !)Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
It would'nt be making us that more defensive than we already are would it ?
Our biggest problem going forward is the lack of a link between the wingers and the front 2. There's always a huge hole between CM and CF that it would be better if we had someone in there holding the ball up. Robbie can do that.