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It was me who said he was a luxury. I think that you have to accommodate him in order to find a place for him in the team. I just don't think right now that it's worth Ireland doing that. I definitely don't think him playing in a two, as has been shown with Ireland is good enough for our team. Playing 5 across midfield, would suit him but that would mean dropping Doyle or Keane, which isn't worth it.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
I feel sorry for Gibson, and I'm going to say something that could be a bit controversial: I don't think he gets the credit that he deserves because he's from Derry.
Before jumping down my throat, I just want to point a few things out: I was listening to the Today FM sport at 7pm after the teams had been named and the sport's headline was that Rooney was in the Man United starting 11. The report went on to mention that O'Shea was back on the bench, but not one mention of Darron at all. A few weeks ago on RTE they showed the first 3 goals that were scored for United in the Bolton match but left out the Gibson strike. Bet if Robbie Keane or Kevin Doyle had have put the icing on the cake they would have cut one of the other goals.
Sure Gibson's shot is a luxury, but so was having Ian Harte on the pitch 64 times.
Maybe the fact that Gibson was starting and it didn't get mentioned shows how far he has come with Man Utd. As in, it's not a huge shock. The main news story was O'Shea's first game since Paris, whereas Gibson starting isn't that extraordinary.
Pity the goal wasn't shown, perhaps more ignorance on RTE's part not knowing a player who mightn't be as well established yet as Keane or Doyle are. An anti-Derry thing is a bit much I'd say.
Compared to what the Cork lads have had to suffer would you not feel a bit embarrassed raising that little bit of evidence.
But to add a few feathers to your conspiracy, on the English Telegraph, Game at a glance, only 13 out of 14 players come up on the flash screen for Team Stats and guess who is missing - only Derry born Darron Gibson.
However he does come up in the Formation Stats
A Daily Telegraph sourced article in the indo today quite complimentry of Gibson
http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...r-2129290.html
I have to laugh at some of the comments about Gibson. What exactly do people mean by saying they're 'wary' of him? 'Wary' of a player who has the ability to score a good goal from midfield? 'Wary' that he can do a solid job in the midfield of one of the best clubs in the world? I don't understand. In the game against Bayern he was easily one of United's better performers and contributed a good goal to their cause; I wonder had United won, would the likes of Dunphy have recognised that Gibson's contribution was important? I would have thought that the fact Ferguson saw fit to start him ahead of a seasoned professional like Scholes would be enough evidence to suggest that this player is talented enough.
It truly is laughable that Dunphy et al. cannot let a Gibson performance pass without making cheap, almost worthless comments like, "he's a nothing player", or something to that effect. Alex Ferguson and Giovanni Trapattoni are arguably two of the greatest managers of our time and they both rate Gibson as a player. That tells me something; a lot more than the weak criticism he receives from some quarters.
Darren will be a good player for Ireland.....
What do you think him being from Derry would have to do with it? Not necessarily disagreeing with you as it does seem like he's not getting the same exposure his compatriots are getting, but I'm just not a great believer in conspiracy theories and would need something more to go on than simply believing that it's merely because he's from Derry that he's missing out on this exposure.Quote:
Originally Posted by twoenz
I wouldn't have said this to be the case at all. I felt excited when I heard Gibson was starting and was chuffed to see him score such a great goal. Maybe that's due to a local connection, but he was the player who people were talking about on here before the game, and still are afterwards, more so than O'Shea, and I think this would be a pretty good indicator as to what the bigger news of the night should have been for Irish football fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by MuckaTucka
Accusations of an active anti-Derry agenda do seem a bit strong though. A careless overlooking of "nordie" talent, as if it's from an alien world, or something, maybe?... I dunno.
I think Dunphy managed to call every player currently within the world of football a "nothing player" last night, with the exception of Messi and Rooney. I think he even singled O'Shea out as being one at one stage, which was peculiar as it was at odds with his standard analysis of Ireland games where O'Shea fits as one of the main characters into his usual narrative of Ireland having a squad of world-class players with a manager who's too inept to get the best out of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
There was an article on the Irish Times minutes after the team was announced saying "Gibson & Rooney start" in that order.
Yeah, maybe this supposed lack of exposure or credit doesn't exist at all. Who knows? It's peculiar that he wouldn't get a mention on Today FM or whatever, but it's a nigh impossible thing to quantify unless you were to sift through the outpourings from all media outlets in Ireland relating to the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I cannot understand the negativity about Gibson... I think he is going to be a very important player for Ireland.
I wouldnt agree with that. I think Gibson starting was seen as a strange one, may be not utter shock but certainly something the pundits hadn't anticiapted.Quote:
Originally Posted by MuckaTucka
He didn't do "a solid job". He gave the ball away quite a bit and Bayern COMPLETELY dominated midfield for 60 odd minutes. How on earth is that "solid"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
It takes two to tango, and Fletcher was no better, but I wouldn't hold Wednesday up as a great performance.
thats nonsense as far as i'm concerned. at half time, he was easily one of united's most impressive performers. his workrate was second-to-none and he kept the ball extremely well. he played a number of excellent through balls that created opportunities for united as well, including the one for rafael that he managed to screw up.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
i challenge you to watch that first half back again and find more than a couple of occasions he lost the ball.
he drifted out of the game, like every other united player except the defenders and goalkeeper soon as rafael was sent off which was on the 50 minute mark. that changed the game utterly and his role changed from a predominantly attacking one to a defensive role.
bayern were played off the park in the first half and only dominated the match once rafael was sent off. saying they dominated midfield from the 30th minute onwards is tosh.
as for dunphy and giles. they are complete idiots who have zero credibility remaining. they dont even know the players names yet they come out with these outrageous opinions. and as an earlier poster said, they think everyone bar messi and rooney is ****. RTE need to put them out to pasture ASAP. They were talking about fergie having had his day and not knowing it... talk about the pot calling the kettle black
Did they specifically say that Ferguson has had his day??Quote:
Originally Posted by ofjames
I heard John Giles on Newstalk last night an he was saying Ferguson hasn't had his day. Giles felt that Ferguson had made a few errors of judgement in the last year but that he was still a great manager who could well pro-long his tenure for at least another season.
On the topic at hand - Gibson has a lot of potential but is far from what Ireland require from central midfield right now.
I didn't say it was a great performance. It wasn't quite on par with the type of Rooney or Messi performances people seem to expect from him, but it was a solid performance nonetheless. As ofjames said, the only time Bayern 'COMPLETELY dominated midfield', was when United were reduced to ten men - even then, United had some chances, and Gibson could well have had another if the referee hadn't obstructed himQuote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
I wouldn't really agree with this bit. Fletcher is all about the donkey work but does need a better player alongside him. I thought Gibson was as poor as ever the last night and looks a complete liability to me so far. He did seem to make an extra effort the close people down early on in the match but that should be a minimum requirement. If he wasn't Irish I really don't think opinions would be as divided on him.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
Carrick was the worst of the three in midfield by a mile as far as I could see. I thought Gibson was quick to support Rooney and his passing was decent. Most people on other sites seem to agree Gibson did well, Glenn Hoddle was praising him on Sky after the match he reckoned he's got "a terrific future".
Whatever about Giles, Dunphy is getting progressively worse, OTT, sensationalist just to get a reaction.Quote:
Originally Posted by ofjames
But if you think they're bad you shouldve switched over to Fat Pat on Setanta, oh sweet jesus. For some reason, he felt the result was a great reason to say how overrated Rooney was and how he is only rated by people who watch english football and think they know football as a result etc etc.
Sorry for the offtopic.
Considering when Gibson starts I'm usually as worried as people used to be about O'Shea until he developed, I was surprised by how well he did in the first half. Took his goal excellently, had a few more decent attempts and linked up well in midfield. Granted, he faded out after half-time, but he definitely had more of an impact than Fletcher or Carrick, and he's certainly in contention to start tomorrow.
Fat Pat is so desperate to get a gig on that RTÉ panel in the future it's embarassing, he's says the most ridiculous controversial stuff just in the hope he'll be the long term replacement for Giles/DunphyQuote:
Originally Posted by elroy
I don't think I could handle Pat at RTE.
I thought Fletcher was better than Gibson, but that's because he's a better, more experienced player. I thought Fletcher was a little subdued, whereas Gibson really raised his game. He still has a lot to learn from Fletcher in terms of closing down players - I don't think it's because Fletcher works harder, it's just that he can do the donkey work in midfield with great economy of effort, whereas Gibson seems to have to work harder to have the same effect. He's definitely improving, and hopefully he gets 3 or 4 starts in the run-in as Alex realises he needs fresh blood in the centre.
A couple of months ago he was going on about Roy Hodgson being overrated and how would he be able to inspire a team, then last night he was saying "it's taken him a long time to get the recognition he deserves in his own country" blah blah. He's a ridiculous pundit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jicked
Semantics. What I mean by wary is that I'm not utterly convinced that he is going to go on and hold a place for the national team. He does some great things, and I do like him as a player at times. It's just don't know who he fits alongside in midfield for Traps 4-4-2?Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
I think Gibson could be a top top player if played in the right system. He may be a "luxury" player, but if he was given more freedom to play a role similar to the one Lampard played under Mourinho, I think he could be that sort of goal scoring midfielder. I think he could even play the Gerrard role behind a main striker...not entirely certain he's responsible enough to play in the centre in a 4-4-2.
he plays a bit like a striker sometimes he gets way to far ahead of the play (for a midfielder) sometimes i notice
I thought that too, but I actually think it's the way he's been asked to play. With only one man up front, you really need a mobile midfielder who'll bomb ahead without the ball, and Gibson seems to be the guy who does it when he's on. Park did the same to devastating effect against Liverpool. Obviously Gibson is still raw and sometimes he just looks out of position, but I can see what he's trying to do.
Didn't start today but came on with 35 mins to go. Just following this with text updates from the internet but it looks like since he came on UTD have started to turn the screw a bit more.
He's getting involved and shooting at evey chance. Hopefully one of his shots will produce something. I'm not a UTD fan but would like to see the title race go down to the wire and of course prefer to see the Irish players win something.
Im watchin the game here. Hes doing ok, getting stuck in anyway
Gibson will score some goals for Ireland in the future.
'Semantics'? What do you mean? I simply questioned what people meant by saying that they were 'wary' of Gibson, who, while he may not have grabbed the football world by the scruff of the neck, has been slowly but surely improving for United, scoring some cracker goals on the way.Quote:
Originally Posted by MuckaTucka
Anyway, a lot of players drift in and out of national squads, based on a number of factors. Gibson has ability; he has proven it and he should be at the top end of football in England for years to come. Hopefully while he's at it he might gain some more caps and score a few goals for Ireland.
That's a fair analysis. We're talking about a player trying to break into the second best team in England and Champions League finalists the past two years. Lampard didn't sign for Chelsea until he was 23 and didn't break until the England squad on a regular basis until he was 24. He's playing in a position where players don't typically break through as early as in other positions, for physical and technical reasons, so it's not a huge concern that he's still on the fringes. As long as he continues to impress (he looked a far bigger threat than Scholes today, and Carrick/Fletcher on Wednesday), he'll get his chance to nail down a place.
Not saying he'll be as good as Lampard, but he's another example of a player who made gradual rather than meteoric progress.
He did alright today, def the most aggressive I have seen Gibson in a game.
United are going to be in transition for a while now, the likes of Giggs, Neville and Scholes are on their last days and will need to be replaced by hopefully the likes of Gibson. Very hard to see them winning the league now, in fact Id have City favourites for the derby on sat. If Gibson was deemed good enough to start against Bayern, think there is a good chance he will also start there.
Whatever about Gibson's future prospects, it's no surprise that United's season has fallen apart when they are relying on the likes of him at this vital stage of the season. The most common type of praise for him on here is by saying that somebody else was actually worse, which is no praise at all really. As somebody who wanted to see United winning the last couple of matches I honestly felt they'd a lot less of a chance with him on the pitch. Outside of a decent shot his contribution is minimal, at that's against the likes of Wolves, nevermind Bayern or Chelsea.
I mean that being wary and not being totally convinced by a player is much the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
Speaking without the Irish blinkers on, I honestly believe there's no reason to say he hasn't actually done anything to suggest he is going to be any better than the likes of Jonathan Greening yet. Just because he's playing for Manchester United seems to buy him a lot more credit than the likes of Meyler who's with unfashionable Sunderland but playing very well.
I would love to see Gibson go on to become a top class player for Ireland. I'm not saying he's crap, doesn't have any potential, or is undeserving of a place in the Irish squad. He just should be judged on the same standards as any other midfielders playing consistently well in the Premiership no matter if it's Manchester United or Wigan. I accept getting a start for Man United might be more difficult, but on the otherhand playing against inferior opposition should make things easier once he's out on that pitch.
Is Gibson a better bet than Fahy, Wilson, Meyler or McCarthy in the Irish midfield? It's hard to say.
We seem to have a raft of young midfielders now that haven't been involved in a competitive game for Ireland. Which is fantastic compared to the beginning of the last campaign.
In the context of the international side, Gibson's current strengths seem to be as an attacking midfielder pushing forward and getting shots. He isn't there defensively, as a passer or as a "controller" of a game who will play in a system, keep it tight and keep it moving. Rightly or wrongly its the latter than Trap looks for. Maybe he might get a game if we play 4-5-1, but he's a bit to go to get into a team playing 4-4-2 IMO.
agree with this summary of his position and to be honest it has shown in the games he has played under Trappatoni.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
Darron's goal-scoring prowess is getting praise from Sir Alex. Hopefully he gets substantial playing time in the last 4 games of the season
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,195...092619,00.html
Quote:
Alex Ferguson
Meanwhile, the vastly-experienced Scottish tactician has praised the goals output of Darron Gibson, who took his season tally to six after scoring against Bayern Munich last week.
Ferguson believes it would be unwise to ignore Gibson's goal-scoring prowess and has likened the 22-year-old's ability to find the back to the net to that of Paul Scholes.
United's long-serving manager believes with more regular first-team football the Republic of Ireland international could make a telling contribution from midfield.
"You saw Gibson's performance against Bayern Munich," he said. "That was his sixth goal of the season [in all competitions] and you cannot dismiss that.
"It is the kind of contribution we used to get from Paul Scholes. He used to get me 12 to 14 goals from midfield all the time and we haven't had a player like that in a while.
"Who is to say if Gibson had been playing all the time where he would be in terms of goals? But he is getting recognition now and even the players are commenting on how much he has improved."
Point about his goals is fair enough. He has 6 goals in what, 12 appearances? And how many of those as a sub? If he had been a regular all season i would see him up around the 15 mark
According to this - http://www.skysports.com/football/pl...324568,00.html - he's only got 5 goals this season (2 VS Spurs, 1 VS West Ham, Bolton and Bayern) who's the sixth against?