Ok, that's better in fairness
Might make promotion/relegation awkward, but let them get it in place and tweak then if needs be
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Ok, that's better in fairness
Might make promotion/relegation awkward, but let them get it in place and tweak then if needs be
Yes, think the idea with the fourth level is that in practice, most of the regional champions will decline promotion to the third tier, but it would give them a greater level of competition than the district leagues, and the more ambitious clubs will work towards meeting the licence requirements for the higher divisions.
Certainly sounds a reasonable compromise. Any clubs willing to take the step up should be more than adequately rewarded you'd hope. A system that discourages promotion would defeat the purpose
i'm not being facetious, but "rewarded "with what? Not with money, is for damn sure
I think money would have to be one thing though - better prize money. We're commenting on the increase in LoI prize money and saying it should be higher; we can't really turn around to ambitious regional sides and say we'll promote them from one of eight regional fourth tiers into one of two regional third tiers (maybe with extra requirements around licensing or youth teams), but there's nothing in it for you. No-one will accept - we can guess at that because no-one's accepting now - and that defeats the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnsie
Love this, though will be interesting to see how the FAI get it passed the various vested interests.
Anyone taking bets on the first LOI club to fall down to the regional leagues (Level 4) and the first club to rise from that level to the 2 LOI tiers?
We cant wait for the 3rd tier to happen as we are currently losing some of our best acadamy kids to other teams as they want to play first team football Cole Omorehionwan springs to mind, left to play for Bray but at times lst year we could have done with him at CB. There are plenty of others.Quote:
Originally Posted by holidaysong
Was also good for players coming back from injury and fringe players like Darragh Nugent who came on a ton and is now a fixture in the first team
It was definitly seen as a positive and not a waste of resources.
With a Rovers B in place they can stay and play first team football and also be available to step up if needed to the first team.
Its not explicitly stated but im assuming when the 3rd tier comes in the under 20's will dissappear for clubs entering second teams??
Also i hope B teams can be promoted to the second tier but obviously not above.
The mention (almost thrown in as an aside) of "partnership clubs" as an alternative to a reserve team is also intriguing - could imagine Leinster Senior League teams working with Shelbourne, to give an example, or one of the Munster Senior League clubs co-operating with Cobh.
It was good. The other clubs were absolute *****s for blocking it. We'd be miles ahead by now.....Quote:
Originally Posted by holidaysong
But seriously it was very useful in terms of giving senior minutes to players who weren't ready for our first team. A lot of the players who would have been in that B team to develop had to leave Rovers to get first team football. Some would have made it to our first team if they'd had that bridge e.g. Dylan Duffy who went to UCD and then on to Lincoln. He developed over the course of a season really. Others would have just benefitted from an integrated system where they stayed with the same team all the way through.
We suffer without it now as our 19s have nowhere to go but leave. It's a bit of a broken link from the academy to the first team that would be great to see fixed.
I'm not a Rovers fans but I was quite interested in the seconds. My take is that it certainly worked for player development, but ultimately probably not much for Rovers themselves.
I reckon the uptake from teams wanting to enter a reserve team will be quite high. It's hard to know if this will actually be good for the growth of the game here or not.
Personally think the more players we have playing at a higher level the better so think a third tier filled with reserve teams is probably good for the player pathway even if it's awful for the club pathway.
Wouldn't like to see any reserve sides in the first division.
There's no chance of B team players being allowed move up and down to the first team outside of the transfer windows
If district leagues feed into 8 regional leagues which feed into two third tier leagues, where will a Mayo FC or a Meath FC fit into that structure?
Is there also a possibility of a repeat of the Galway United, Mercury and Salthill situation? 3 clubs where only one is realistically sustainable for a professional club?
The youth leagues which have built up and become established in recent years have predominantly allowed clubs join from regions without LoI representation. I'm not convinced that the third tier should move away from that approach. The third tier should be open for elite licences for second teams from the LoI and non LoI clubs that have joined the youth leagues.
This is a good point and my short answer is that we'll probably see Mayo FC join the LOI in 2026 before we see the 8 seperate regions. I haven't seen any firm dates for Meath FC but happy to be corrected there.Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
I don't believe you'll see the same problems with Mervue/Salthill/GUFC if you link the pyramid properly as they'll only end up in the same level if Mervue & Salthill get there on merit. And there would be space for one of the 3 to fall back into if performances suffer. Proper licensing also helps.
I'd be more worried about Mervue & Salthill repeatedly declining promotion because they prefer being the big fish in a small pond!
I agree with you in theory but in practice I think there might be a struggle to get enough LOI teams willing to fund a B team in the 3rd tier. It's just the four non-Loi teams currently (Mayo, Kildare, CK United & Cavan/Monaghan) or am I missing a few?
I'd say a few of the Dublin based teams would be open to having a b team in the 3rd tier depending on costs. Rovers have obviously had one previously so they would be prime candidates. Pat's seem to have a good pathway set up and having another step up from the 20's to the first team would likely make sense for them. Bohs have had a few players out on loan to first division teams the last few seasons and I'd assume the preference would be to keep them in house and get competitive minutes in a men's league than letting them out on loan and potentially losing them. If those 3 clubs opt for a b team you're already at 7 participants and I'm sure that there are more I'm not thinking of.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elfman
Promotion to the second tier should be allowed for B sides. If you finish bottom of the first division you should be relegated.
You could limit it to 2 teams if people are worried about there being to many B teams in first division.
if Dundalk and Bohs were Div 1 and Rovers won the third tier they play off for a place, .
I disagree. The third tier should be the highest level for second teams. First Division clubs have been clear about not wanting second teams.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
Mayo, Kildare and CK seem the only non LoI clubs that will be ready for a third tier. It would take the inclusion of at least 5 second teams for a third national tier of 8 to get off the ground. That should be the starting point for the third tier. Getting district leagues to link in with 8 regional leagues will be the more difficult part.
I think there would be big potential for a team in Swords. There's a population of 40k people in one of the fastest growing areas in the country, and a good distance from Bohs/Shels. The Sporting Fingal experiment obviously failed but being based in Santry with a long term aim to move to Rush/Lusk wasn't a great plan.
If Shelbourne had moved to Swords instead of staying in Tolka, for example, I could have seen a similar level and interest and growth to Rovers in Tallaght. I appreciate that's not what the Shels fans wanted and I'm grateful Tolka is staying, but I think there's space for an indigenous Swords team. Not sure if there's any interest locally but I see Swords Celtic have a lot of space and pitches on the northern edge of the town.
Didnt realise Swords is that big. Im sure if they had a team in loi Im sure Dublin Airport or one of the airlines could be a shirt sponsor. A trick has being missed here. Balbriggan is close to alsoQuote:
Originally Posted by fionnsci
If there was interest in Swords in plotting a course for the LoI, they would be better off joining the youth league first and build up the connection within their community. Kerry competed in the youth leagues from 2016 to 2022 before joining the First Division. 7 seasons of building connections within the community.
I think in Dublin it’s very difficult to attract fans to a brand new club. I think if you asked non LOI fans from Swords why they don’t support a team in the league, the main reason would be “that league is muck” etc. rather than “Bohs/Shels are too far away to go to every second Friday” and if that’s the attitude then supporting a brand new club at the very bottom of the lowest tier in the LOI is not going to entice very many to get on board. Even with Sporting Fingal’s rapid rise to the premier division/cup win/europe, their crowds were always shocking as there seemed to be an attitude of supporting them is embarrassing due to the lack of history (years in existence as opposed to trophies).
Compare that to Kerry, where there seemed to be a genuine appetite for LOI football in the county but also crucially the much more legitimate issue of no LOI side anywhere even relatively close. Hence the popularity of the club in year 1 despite losing nearly every week and playing in a poor ground
The youth leagues are a different dynamic. It is not easy to get into a local youth team. There is an awareness of the competitive level of LoI youth teams. If a club has 4 youth teams, that's 90 players and families with a connection with the club already.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Year Contract
On the mooted third tier, participation in the youth leagues should be a requirement.
It would have over time. It wasn't around long enough unfortunately.Quote:
Originally Posted by cláirseach
I agree with what you're saying there Legendz and it's now made me think of something else:Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
As much as I feel the national youth leagues have been brilliant for improving the LOI clubs relationship with their communities, I think it's telling that only regions have been allowed to enter underage teams. St. Kevin's would have entered an underage team but had to partner with Bohs due to the stipulation that only LOI teams could enter initially.
My guess is that St. Kevin's focus on youth meant that they had no interest in eventually becoming a fully fledged LOI team, and fair enough, but is there a danger that if you open it up to clubs (and not just regions) that some will sit at that underage level with no intention of ever fielding a senior team in the Premier Division?
My own opinion is that the youth leagues should only be accepting clubs from non LoI areas unless there is a strategic benefit for additional youth teams. While Kerry were able to join the youth leagues as Kerry League, the FAI now require a Mayo League for example to form a club e.g. Mayo FC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elfman
Mayo FC, CK and Kildare graduating from the U19 leagues to a third tier should be a natural progression. It's not a million miles away from being a possibility. As mentioned before, I think they'll need at least 5 second LoI teams for a national third tier to get off the ground.
Is there any interest from either Peamount or DLR Waves to enter the men's LOI?
If both were to join Mayo, CK, Kildare and possibly Meath and Cavan-Monaghan, that would be the makings of a division
DLR Waves is effectively the Women's team of UCD. They play in the Bowl and were formed from a merger of UCD and a Dún Laoghaire team I think
Would it be strategic for the Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown and Fingal regions to enter teams in the youth leagues? With a focus on youth, they could focus on getting support from their local county councils for that reason.
They already do. That's effectively the youth teams of UCD you're describing
I know. Does UCD reduce the likelihood of a DLR LoI club?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Not really - UCD is a DLR LoI club.
If UL had entered the LoI instead of Treaty, I'm trying to imagine Limerick getting behind a third level institution instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Cabinteely didn't exactly pull up any trees.Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
Couple of quick clarifications re posts above:
-Peamount united have a mens LSL team already. Not just a women's club.
-DLR Waves are independent from UCD. The DLR-UCD merger was only active 2014-2018, with DLR Waves being an independent club before and afterwards. The Wikipedia page has a decent club history. They have played at Jackson Park as well as the Bowl.
In fairnness, the last thing the LOI needs is more Dublin teams. Maybe someone with a strong identity like Ballymun at Tier 3 would fly, but not in the top 2 tiers proper (though I appreciate that P&R means you could well see other clubs get there).Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckett
With attendances at the Dublin clubs bar UCD increaisdng a lot in recent years, it will become increasingly difficult for any new Dublin LOI teams to carve out ennough of a niche to sustain themselves in the top 2 tiers (unless they go down the route of a sugar daddy, which would just end up in boom and bust).
Agree about Dublin and even places like Ballymun already have a decent amount of support for Bohs. Pie in the sky stuff I know but I think Kilkenny would be a great city to have and LOI club in again but it would need to really work within the community to ensure sustainability. Outside of that a real darkhorse would be somewhere like Portlaois. Good public transport links with train and bus, prison to lock up any hooligans and from what I remember it has a growing population. But if Kilkenny is pie in the sky then Portlaois is a triple decker wedding cake in the sky type thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
Fared very respectably in the FAI Intermediate and Senior Cups last year, though scaling up to the levels needed to field teams at all academy levels would be quite another matter of course. As has been said before, would make most sense for CK United to be based in Buckley Park, but seem to be very much a Carlow-dominated outfit.
Have I got this right?
The FAI are looking to align the under-age football season with Senior football round a summer schedule, at least partly to provide a "feeder pool" of new clubs to the projected new Third Tier?
Are there any such plans for adult Junior/Intermediate football? Or are they being left to continue playing winter football, thereby effectively cutting off any progression from there to the Senior game?
No, the aim is for all leagues, including junior and intermediate, to switch to the calendar year, but they're already getting negative pushback:
https://archive.is/svDIu
Maybe I'm the only person, but I just don't see how CK United will ever attract much support ? It's a rubbish name and a disparate area to be trying to get people to identify with. I may well be proven wronng, but I just can't see a club of that name and purpose going anywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by culloty82