David Connolly's former club.Quote:
Originally Posted by JR89
Printable View
David Connolly's former club.Quote:
Originally Posted by JR89
That's an even worse move than when he went to MK Dons. I mean, I don't hugely rate the guy, but how has someone higher up the food chain than that not come in for him?
I suppose because he scored three times last year, and one of those was a penalty. He wasn't going to get a Championship move.
Dutch top flight isn't a bad level though, even if Excelsior will probably be battling relegation (despite their good start). He has a chance to make a name for himself. Or to end up looking at a League One loan again this time next year.
I love this move for him
Excelsior scored less than a goal a game last season, although they have six in two games so far this season
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022%E...isie#Standings
Playing Fortuna Sittard at home on Saturday evening
Sums it up well. I think he might have just about got a Championship move next week when things got a little more frantic but I agree that it is a good level and gives him a good chance. Nobody on here, myself included, can find excuses for him if he doesn't go well with season and make some clear progression.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
More like League of Ireland if this doesn't go well. You'd wonder is there a character aspect to this, are better teams turning him down because of off the field stuff? Because I would have thought his stint at MK Dons alone would have at least gotten him a high end League 1 move, rather than having to drop to a club with a 4k stadium at the bottom end of the Eredivisie.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
The Aaron Connolly comparisons are obvious, even the talk of LOI next if it doesn't go well. We thought there was very little future for Connolly with the Venezia disater and now we are hoping the penny has finally dropped. Parrott is only 21, let's not be too quick to write him off. I do think he needs to have a good season as I think his Spurs contract is expiring. If he is the player we hope he is he should one of best players in this division, especially if he realistically wants to be looked at as a future Premiership striker for any club.
I love the move because I think it gets rid of the excuses of the physicality of the lower leagues not suiting a player like him that's bit more technical. A change of scenery could be the makings of him.
You are aware Ajax were in the Champions League final a couple of years ago? Feyernoord were in the quarterfinals of the Europa League last year, and Alkmaar got to the semis of the Conference League. The Dutch league is ranked sixth in Europe. There's nine players from it in the preliminary Dutch squad to face us next month.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Parrott has done nothing in his career to suggest he "should one of best players in this division"
If he is to be a future Premiership striker he needs to be one of best players in division is what I meant. Maybe I wasn't clear. I'm saying if he is ever going to be the player we thought he could be as a youth he needs to stand out now in this division. Not that he has shown us anything as a pro that he will be a top player, it's time to start if he's ever going to be
I like the move, if he does well then how likely is it that Feyenoord or PSV or a mid/lower bundesliga team take a punt on him next summer.
I think we may be better keeping our hopes more realistic. It'd be great if he suddenly turned into the second coming of Zlatan. But playing for a side which will probably be fighting relegation (they were one place above the relegation playoff last season) I think hitting double figures would be an excellent season. And not at all guaranteed - their top scorer last year got 4Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
I'm saying if he wants to be of a level of Ollie Watkins for example, not Zlatan. I think there's still a chance he could be a very decent Premiership footballer, but it's obvious he isn't world class. My point is that it's time for him to start showing if he's capable
Ouch, hard to see this being a catapult to greater things. Even if he does reasonably well, it puts him on a par with Jack Byrne at Cambuur - Not even at the level of Dan Crowley at Willem II - right now, Connolly looks like a more viable option in the short-to-medium term
Not entirely sure what to make of this move but does feels a drop too far down for him.
Well you're also suggesting a 21-year-old "should one of best players" in a seriously good league known for producing great players. Zlatan is an example of a 21-year-old who was one of the best players in the Dutch league. I think your hopes/expectations are way out hereQuote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Yeah you even had some saying anything less than 20 goals and this move is a failure. When the joint top goal scorers in the Eredivisie had 19 goals each and only 22 in all competitions.
Think going to the Eredivisie isn't a bad move in general, but it's when you hear it's to Excelsior Rotterdam rather than Feyenoord Rotterdam you're thinking hmmm was this is best option. Even someone outside the big three like FC Utrecht who finish in the playoff spots for the final European spot in the league.
Though in a way maybe Rotterdam is better than Rotherham at this stage. Doesn't always work out for everyone going abroad but it's good to see he's willing to look beyond the UK for game time. Conor Coventry is probably another lad I think should look beyond the UK.
No harm, but this is a frequently cited observation which I simply don't buy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
For sure, defenders in the very top leagues are very skilful and quick etc, but they simply cannot have got to that level without also being physically strong too - think eg Virgil Van Dyke, who's as strong as an ox, or any number of great Italian defenders like Bonnuci or Chiellini. If guys like that can't outdo the attacker they're up against by skill, speed and positioning etc, then they'll try to bully him with physicality instead, if that's what it takes. And if attackers, indeed all positions, do not possess the requisite physicality to cope at the top level, then unless they're truly exceptional like eg Messi, then they'll struggle.
Which is why so many top players point to a spell in lower league football when young as toughening them up for the next level in their careers. Or don't you imagine that opponents didn't try eg to bully VVD when he was a teenager at Gronnigen, or that he didn't learn a few tricks when he was slugging it out against cloggers in the SPL for Celtic?
As a Spurs fan, I'd love to see TP fulfil his potential, but if he is to do so, imo it won't be by mollycoddling him, or making excuses for him, since physicality is an essential part of the game everywhere, not least, indeed especially, at the very top levels.
dear god, this is an appalling move.
Would say it’s more an issue of playing in physical teams rather than playing against physical teams. Physical teams are structured and direct (last season’s PNE), Parrott is at his best when he is free to drift out of position, get on the ball, and play combinations. Obviously know little to nothing about Excelsior but would imagine given their lowly stature they’ll have a high focus on defensive structure rather than free flowing total football.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Don't you think that opposition teams will have spotted such things for themselves? Or do you imagine they have, just don't know how to counter it?Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
Fact is, the higher you go, the more savvy the opposition will be, and if that means teams closing off an opponent like TP by physical means, then that's what they'll do. And they'll do it better (i.e. tougher) than teams at a lower level.
All I know about Excelsior is what I've just googled:Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
1. They're the third team in a city of 664k i.e. one third that of Glasgow, for instance;
2. Other than promotion from the Dutch 2nd tier, they've never won a trophy;
3. Their stadium holds 4.5k (all seated);
4. Until TP arrived, their first team squad of 27, from several different countries, didn't have a single Senior international player, not even with one cap;
5. Their current Head Coach is Marinus Dijkhuizen, who was sacked by Brentford after just 9 games in charge. (Brentford are anything but a sacking club btw, but simply held their hands up and admitted he was the wrong appointment as soon as it became obvious).
As a club, I'd guess they're nearer eg Partick Thistle than Celtic/Rangers, never mind Ajax/PSV etc.
What an underwhelming move, to put it mildly. Average crowd last season, all though in second tier, was about 3,000 mark. Won't increase that much this season as ground only holds 4,500. Maybe an accurate guide on his standing in the game right now, but he has a lot more misses to his name than hits from his loans so far.
No, not really. Doubtful the opposition were pinpointing Parrott as a danger and seeing his strengths based on his time at PNE tbf. He had a good second half of a season with MK Dons but otherwise hasn’t really taken to senior football, although his partnership with Obafemi showed promise for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Maybe the move to Excelsior will afford him a “big fish/ small pond” benefit.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
There are positives too. The standard of his opponents will be high enough to be testing and to help him learn. It's a heavily scouted league, so he has a chance to earn a good move post-Spurs. He has an excellent chance to start routinely. It sounds like he'll have to adapt his game and broaden his skillset to succeed, which is healthy for a young player. He's done pretty respectably when given the chance and scored some goals for us in a time when we were very goalshy, but he hasn't done it yet at club level sufficiently so seeing him play at a decent level is the main thing right now. I don't really see any need to panic here.
I've explained what I meant, if youre too thick as usual to understand thats on youQuote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
no personal insults RLPQuote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Yeah, It could be a great education for Troy Parrott on so many levels ~ I hope it works out well for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
Cheers; saves me reporting the post. No harm RLP, but when someone takes you up on something overly optimistic, it'd be better if you held your hand up every now and again rather than just go down the personal insult route.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
They were in the top tier last season. Average crowd was 4,336 - pretty much near capacity every week in other words. Albeit a very small capacity of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Exgrad
I believe they play on an artificial surface, which isn't ideal.
A fascinating mixture of responses to this move. I'm in the more optimistic camp, because I think he might thrive if given the responsibility to be the main man for the team. Parrott has shown his quality when playing for Ireland and has scored a few nice goals. This will be a new challenge for a relatively young player and there are lots of possibilities that might arise from a good year in Eredivisie. Perhaps he'll fall in love with the country and earn a move to a bigger club in that division, with the potential for European football...
Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
Can't speak for his general play, but four goals in 20 caps might seem ok for a youngster, until you look closer: i.e. two were against Andorra and one vs Lithuania (both friendlies), while the fourth, in a Nations League game vs Scotland, was over a year ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
I must confess I'd kinda forgotten about him this last while - always plenty going on at Spurs! - but that tells its own story.
Anyhow, whenever it comes to rating teams/players, the one metric which correlates best with playing standards is wages. That is, the best players invariably go to, or remain with, the clubs who can pay the most. And last season, after getting promoted to the Eredivisie, Excelsior's average crowd was 3,036. I imagine they got sell-out 4.5k crowds against Ajax, Feyenoord, PSV and Sparta, if only with the help of away fans, meaning many of their other games must have been half-full.
So how much do you imagine they can afford to pay TP, on crowds which eg most EFL League Two clubs exceed, or even LOI PD teams? Sure, Spurs are doubtless subsidising his wages until his contract expires next summer, but in that context, why weren't bigger clubs after him?
Christ, the more I think about this, the more depressed I become - at one stage Spurs fans were hoping he'd be the successor to Harry Kane....
half the issue with parrott is that there is still a considerable amount of people out there who think hes an out and out goalscorer. he should have more than he does no getting away from that but hes no 20 goal a season man. not a top finisher and hes definitely stronger with his movement/passing than many give credit for.
Sure, but let's compare him to the other forwards we've called up recently.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Idah 1 goal in 16 caps.
Obafemi 2 goals in 11 caps
Ferguson 2 goals in 6 caps
Johnston 1 goal in 4 caps
Ogbene 4 goals in 15 caps
Keane 0 goals in 4 caps
Cannon 0 goals, no caps, possibly defecting
Robinson 8 goals in 34 caps
Hogan 0 goals in 12 caps
That's it. Some of these guys are experienced, some are even younger than Parrott, but 4 goals in 20 caps for us is absoutely fine at this stage of his career.
I was bloody happy about that goal against Andorra. His more experienced, higher paid colleagues were making embarrassingly heavy work of scoring against literally a team of amateurs. People seem to love qualifying goalscoring records. Robbie Keane never scored from further out than the length of his mickey, and never against a team that could boast a professional centre half if you listened to half the ****e talked about him during his career. Nearly no one scores regularly against good teams. That's why they're good. At this rate, Parrott could play a hundred games for us, never score at a higher rate than that, and still make the top ten ROI goalscorers of all time. In fact, he'd be joint third on the list.
On the other hand, we were losing 1-0 to Andorra when he scored the equaliser and the goal to make it 2-1. The goal against Lithuania was a 97th minute winner and a quality goal. He scored the opening 1-0 goal against Scotland, which started off the win. So, in terms of impact on the matches, they were 4 crucial goalsQuote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
I think the Parrott situation is definitely made a lot easier by the emergence of Ferguson. Parrott was once the great white hope of Irish football - while there were others coming through around that time he was seen as the best bet for an international quality striker by a mile. Now that role obviously falls to Ferguson, while Parrott these days sits behind Obafemi, Connolly, Idah and even Armstrong on the potentials list. So, he's probably our sixth best striker prospect under 23 now, and even that's with the assumption that Cannon sees his international future elsewhere.
So that hopefully takes the pressure off him a bit, and definitely makes his failure to establish himself to date easier for us to take as supporters of the team. What it also raises is the possibility that he could forge a perfectly decent career for himself as a support forward who isn't relied on for his goals.
But really he needs to have a good season with Excelsior first and foremost, if he doesn't he could find himself sliding down the divisions fairly swiftly.
I wouldn't have him behind Idah or Connolly on the potential list in fairness. Also, I think club pressure trumps international pressure - so I don't think the fact that he's clearly behind Ferguson and Obafemi (who's drifting, but that's a different thread) at international level will really change things for him as a player looking to break through at club level
He got outshone by Cannon at Preston last year and maybe that's no bad thing, for a 21-year-old to be overshadowed by a younger teammate may hopefully be a bit of a wake up call
More than a hint of Jack Byrne about the whole thing. Style of play, general career path and the obvious Eridivisie thing.
Shamrock Rovers for the 2025 LOI season it is for Troy.
No harm, but did you watch his games for Ireland where I said he has shown flashes of his quality? As others have pointed out, his scoring record at international level, such as it is, stacks up favourably against many of the other pretenders in the Ireland squad. His link-up play in the blitzing of Scotland was excellent and he has shown a knack for scoring different types of goals - headers, tap-ins, edge-of-the-box efforts. It's worth remembering too that many of his 20 caps have been from the bench, often late into the second half. I tend to suspect if he started more games - and had more time on the pitch - he'd have a few more goals, but we'll just have to wait and see. Why he doesn't start more is the big question. Different coaches appear to have had different ideas of him as a player and he has played across the forward line in a few different roles instead of becoming a specialist (like Ferguson is on track for, for example). In a sport where system players are now king, maybe Parrott doesn't fit as neatly. I don't know.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Anyway, I asked a Dutch friend who pays attention to the Eredivisie and Eerste Divisie about Excelsior. He said that they have exceeded expectations in recent seasons, performing better than most teams who have been tipped for relegation. He said they play nice football, which chimes what what Parrott himself said when outlining his attraction to the team.
Looked it up the other day and he's played 806mins in a green shirt. That's basically nine full games minutes wise. Think it was actually nine starts also in those 20 caps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator