League of Ireland in Europe 2019

I'm not convinced Rovers are much fitter than Apollon. Rovers midfield got very tired from about the hour mark, I though Bradley made the right changes but maybe a bit too late for the midfield. Apollon were a very cynical and narky team when things started to go against them. The elbow was so blatant, I'm not sure the ref had a great angle on it but it was a red all day long, I was a long way from the actual red, looked like he won the ball but he lunged in two feet off the ground and after a series of close calls the ref was nearly forced to show the red at that stage. They cynicism paid off for them though when they went down to 10, they never let Rovers have a really good spell of possession and they killed the momentum of the game. It'll be a huge task for Rovers over there, but the fact they look like scoring from every set piece will work in their favour as they'll believer they can nick a goal at any stage, even if they go behind.

Just to add McEneff has become an absolute key player for Rovers. I don't think it's a coincidence that their poor run off form coincided with his injury. He's not as showy as Byrne obviously, but he's a really intelligent player, his positioning and work rate are really good and he creates space for Byrne and is often the one finding him with a tidy little pass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZ1Q...iS1n-4dgGIt2uw

It was Rovers that put the full tv production in place last night all RTE or Eir had to do was take the feed and put commentary on it but neither interested. Hopefully one of them pick it up next week.

Another great occasion last night, great to see so many dads with their kids at the game. Is Jack Byrne now the best footballer Ireland have, he was excellent last night his range of passing is outstanding and when he goes on a run his centre of gravity and the way he shields the ball from opponents is almost Hazard like. Carr was better last night. Joey O Brien also excellent. i think we can score over there and not just from set pieces but they will be much improved. The noise from the South Stand for some of the games this season has been incredible and again when we went one down the fans really got behind the team. There is a growing maturity in the group deffo have a chance of a draw against the black and reds in a few weeks.

Good result for shams last night.Didn't see the game (Irelands sports coverage :mad:) but any win is welcome development. I think shams more positive style probably suits better in Europe than it sometimes does at home.
great to see another big crowd at SDCC Community Stadium (no golf on last night ;)). Still a tough battle but having a lead to protect really gives them a chance in the second leg, an away goal could be priceless to their chances of progress.

the weather is stifling in Europe atm.
Cyrpus looks even hotter and it stays 30 degrees even into the evening. But great results for the league and hopefully a similar or better haul for next week. Ive always felt that we should be aiming to have (at least) two teams in the 3QR stage of the Europa League; and hopefully one into the Playoff round with a bit of luck/grit.

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Originally Posted by Nah Nah Nah Nah

All on for a bit of RTE bashing normally but it was a game against a team from Cyprus in the Europa League that didn’t even sell out.

Great win and in a great position to get through now

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Not really a fair way to describe it now is it? It was a marquee game for the league. Bumper crowd, top class facilities, great atmosphere, lovely football against group stage quality opposition. Should have been on TV. Those are the sort of games people need to see to grow the league.

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Originally Posted by Kingswood Rover

Another great occasion last night, great to see so many dads with their kids at the game. Is Jack Byrne now the best footballer Ireland have, he was excellent last night his range of passing is outstanding and when he goes on a run his centre of gravity and the way he shields the ball from opponents is almost Hazard like. Carr was better last night. Joey O Brien also excellent. i think we can score over there and not just from set pieces but they will be much improved. The noise from the South Stand for some of the games this season has been incredible and again when we went one down the fans really got behind the team. There is a growing maturity in the group deffo have a chance of a draw against the black and reds in a few weeks.

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No Jack Byrne is not the best player Ireland have.

Do you think Jack Byrne is better than McGrath from Dundalk?

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Originally Posted by placid casual

Do you think Jack Byrne is better than McGrath from Dundalk?

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That's not even a conversation worth having. McGrath is a very good player but he's more a Ronan Finn (currently) than a Jack Byrne, he does the simple things very well but he's not going to be in a position where he's being crowded by 5 players and manages to keep the ball and get out and switch the play, those moments of magic are what make Jack Jack.

Jack Byrne would be in the 1st 11 in any LoI side! He is undoubtedly one of the best midfielders in the league, the best at what he does even. Is he better than Chris Shields at breaking up play well probably not but then its a horses for courses debate. I dont think KR meant the best midfielder that Ireland ie RoI international side have but it's a valid debate on his merits within a league context.

On the game in Oriel Wednesday in all the years of going to games I don't think I have heard a roar like it when Hoban scored!! Considering the restricted attendance and how open Oriel is it was remarkable and an incredible atmosphere overall. I dont know why, there have been bigger crowds and equally big goals scored that where a hige relief eg O'Donnells opener v Cork last day of the season, but for some reason the place really erupted and cannot be exaggerated. People not at the game have commented on knowing Dundalk scored hearing the roar over the town. I dont know if it came across on Eir but looking back at the game in Oriel this morning for the first time, Azerbaijani clip on youtube and it gives an idea. A decent enclosed ground with an additional couple of thousand people and the ears would still be ringing today. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdJPyiBlP9Q

It was a ropey first half, that typical early soft goal conceded by LoI in Europe that Ive rattled on about came to pass (Rovers conceded very early too but it was far from a clanger). I'd love to know what VP said at half time as we were a different side second half. We got lucky on an occasion early in the game yet generally there is a feeling that we could have taken a lead in to the second leg. We had a few passangers especially 1st half and they need to step up next week - once again we are saying that this Dundalk side have yet to put in a complete performance with everyone firing on all cylinders. Benson is getting no luck with injuries but Murray had an excellent game. Perth showed again that he isnt afraid to mix things up with McEleney getting the shepards hook for a subpar perfromance - he is one chap that has a big point to prove next week imo as e cant have been happy with his own performance. The Azerbaijanis as meantioned previously have serious pace and can cut inside and out with ease - even Gannon was left looking dizzy a few times, but we will have learned a lot while also keeping the tie alive. Their energy level went off the cliff in the last 20 mins which we can exploit. A lot of the comments under the youtube clip (using google translate's rough guidance) were on how long it took for their manager to freshen midfield up. Zoubir and Almeida stood out as their real dangermen down our right so I can see Mountney comming in to assist Gannon there but tbh I think Kelly starting and have his pace force their left sided players to sit deeper is the better option I think. Hopefullt Benson is fit to be in the squad but Murray looked more than capable to deputise.

It was a great perfromance from Rovers and again showed a steeliness that wasnt always there in the past to play themselves back in to a game after going behind. There's a real opportunity there now. Hopefully both sides progress now (with EL games for Dundalk to come if need be) and should be the minimum expectation and performances from our league sides - progress a round and be in the mix for the second tie. The likes of Derry have the potential for a third side to also do the league proud in future seasons, Pats have a squad that on paper could also improve on this year. Its certainly been generally a more positive couple of days of European action.

The Dundalk and Rovers games were scarily similar, only difference was Rovers seemed to settle a bit earlier and as a result scored the extra goal. Huge tasks ahead of both teams but encouraging performances even more so than the results.

Not been mentioned yet but the officials were brutal last night, wouldn't look out of place among our own officials they were that bad.

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Originally Posted by placid casual

Do you think Jack Byrne is better than McGrath from Dundalk?

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He must be - any chap without a first name is obviously inferior.

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Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop

That's not even a conversation worth having. McGrath is a very good player but he's more a Ronan Finn (currently) than a Jack Byrne, he does the simple things very well but he's not going to be in a position where he's being crowded by 5 players and manages to keep the ball and get out and switch the play, those moments of magic are what make Jack Jack.

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I've seen McGrath do exactly that!

They are both excellent players and I would find it hard to choose between them. Byrne probably has the edge as his dead ball delivery is a very potent weapon.

I would say Jack Byrne is the better player, more all around, and as mentioned before his delivery is excellent. Both had fine games this week, it could be argued that McGrath possibly fared better given Qarabag are a fair step above Limassol.

What’s not in question is McGrath’s improvement, his strength on the ball and his build is no comparison to the player that joined a few seasons ago. He was desperately unlucky not to start the Cup Final last season, however he changed the game when he did, replacing Mountney, it was his ball that set up Gannon for McEleney to score.

Byrne has not impressed v Dundalk this season, possibly v Bohs also, but he has impressed in Europe, has been involved in all of their goals I think so far?

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Originally Posted by osarusan

What struck me about Rovers and Dundalk before them is that both sides started poorly enough, but finished the stronger. Usually it's the LOI team that gets worked out as the game goes on, nice to see it happening the other way round.

Seemed to be fitter in both games too, which I didn't expect.

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This is a good point and 10 years ago it would have been the complete opposite. As I said before after 20 misn ro so I would Qarbag would have been out of sight by HT, granted they missed a good few chances, but huge credit to Dundalk for sticking with them, then the recovery and finally finishing the stronger side.

I only saw last 30 mins or so from Rovers, they apepared to be well in control to see out the game.

Away ties will be different, for both the heat will be a factor, I think worse for Rovers as they kick off at 8pm, v 9pm for Dundalk, I also heard Qarabag have an artifical pitch, which is interesting.

How are Qarabag a fair step above Limassol. It obviouly hard to judge since they havn't played each other and aren't in the same league but their european records are fairly similar, both regualrs in group stages and get some decent results against some better known teams.

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Originally Posted by oriel

This is a good point and 10 years ago it would have been the complete opposite. As I said before after 20 misn ro so I would Qarbag would have been out of sight by HT, granted they missed a good few chances, but huge credit to Dundalk for sticking with them, then the recovery and finally finishing the stronger side.

I only saw last 30 mins or so from Rovers, they apepared to be well in control to see out the game.

Away ties will be different, for both the heat will be a factor, I think worse for Rovers as they kick off at 8pm, v 9pm for Dundalk, I also heard Qarabag have an artifical pitch, which is interesting.

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Really? Their manager was complaining about playing on an artificial pitch at Oriel before the first leg so I'd be amazed/confused if they turned around and played on an artificial surface.

EDIT: According to UEFA the match is being played in the Dalga Arena and after some digging I found this article which mentions it changed from artificial turf to natural prior to hosting the UEFA u17s Championship in 2016

http://www.affa.az/index.php/news/da...d-photos/57379

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Originally Posted by Asterix

How are Qarabag a fair step above Limassol. It obviouly hard to judge since they havn't played each other and aren't in the same league but their european records are fairly similar, both regualrs in group stages and get some decent results against some better known teams.

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It's a hypothetical (and probably irrelevant) debate about the respective quality levels, but the European records are far from similar

According to Bert Kassie

Qarabag current UEFA 5 year ranking is #69 with 19.000 points,
Limassol are some distance behind at #112 with 11.500

FWIW
Dundalk are #126 with 8.500 points
Rovers are #255 with 3.750 points

https://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert...trank2020.html

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Originally Posted by ArFella

Really? Their manager was complaining about playing on an artificial pitch at Oriel before the first leg so I'd be amazed/confused if they turned around and played on an artificial surface.

EDIT: According to UEFA the match is being played in the Dalga Arena and after some digging I found this article which mentions it changed from artificial turf to natural prior to hosting the UEFA u17s Championship in 2016

http://www.affa.az/index.php/news/da...d-photos/57379

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The ever reliable Wikipedia also lists the surface as "grass"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalga_Arena

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Originally Posted by Ezeikial

The ever reliable Wikipedia also lists the surface as "grass"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalga_Arena

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Is it the same as the grass that the lads in the shed have?

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Originally Posted by ArFella

Is it the same as the grass that the lads in the shed have?

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Qarabag seem to use loads of different stadiums. The one they're playing Dundalk in seems like it used to be artificial pitch but was converted to grass a few years back

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Originally Posted by ArFella

Really? Their manager was complaining about playing on an artificial pitch at Oriel before the first leg so I'd be amazed/confused if they turned around and played on an artificial surface.

EDIT: According to UEFA the match is being played in the Dalga Arena and after some digging I found this article which mentions it changed from artificial turf to natural prior to hosting the UEFA u17s Championship in 2016

http://www.affa.az/index.php/news/da...d-photos/57379

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I was wondering about that myself. Dunno whether it's true or not but the rumour was that they werent happy with the changing rooms and left Oriel to go back to the hotel to get ready and that their manager was moaning about the pitch. General consensus was that it was all a good thing if they weren't feeling too much at home during their away leg!! ;)

The incident where their keeper misjudged the bounce of the ball everyone on the Carrick Road end could see happening in almost slow motion. He came out to collect the high ball dropping but never looked like getting there, you could even see the spin on the ball and that its was going to move goalward if it bounced. Better anticipation from Dundalk players and it could have fashioned a chance. People would have been pointing at the pitch for the keepers error but he completely misjudged the flight of the ball and if was playing on sand would still have been in bother. He spilled a couple of shots too so should be tested early on in the away leg!

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Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop

Qarabag seem to use loads of different stadiums. The one they're playing Dundalk in seems like it used to be artificial pitch but was converted to grass a few years back

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I know that some have doubted your reading and comprehension abilities in the past, but that is surely dispelled now.

Being able to paraphrase ArFella's earlier post so concisely is impressive

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Originally Posted by ArFella

Really? Their manager was complaining about playing on an artificial pitch at Oriel before the first leg so I'd be amazed/confused if they turned around and played on an artificial surface.

EDIT: According to UEFA the match is being played in the Dalga Arena and after some digging I found this article which mentions it changed from artificial turf to natural prior to hosting the UEFA u17s Championship in 2016

http://www.affa.az/index.php/news/da...d-photos/57379

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Originally Posted by PartySaint

This Rovers vs Dundalk Europa League final is going to be mental.

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Play the final in Tallaght - if Dundalk won the toss to be the home side Asterix would spontaneously combust!!

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Originally Posted by Ezeikial

I know that some have doubted your reading and comprehension abilities in the past, but that is surely dispelled now.

Being able to paraphrase ArFella's earlier post so concisely is impressive

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This may be a bit beyond your limited brain capacity but try keep up. I saw ArFellas post before it was edited, the thread then moved onto the next page and I didn't go back through the whole thread to see if anyone had edited their reply to mention it before posting my reply, sue me, or better yet just **** off.

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Originally Posted by ArFella

Really? Their manager was complaining about playing on an artificial pitch at Oriel before the first leg so I'd be amazed/confused if they turned around and played on an artificial surface.

EDIT: According to UEFA the match is being played in the Dalga Arena and after some digging I found this article which mentions it changed from artificial turf to natural prior to hosting the UEFA u17s Championship in 2016

http://www.affa.az/index.php/news/da...d-photos/57379

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I may have got that wrong then re Qarabag and their pitch.

7 of 35 listed football grounds in Azerbaijan have artificial pitches so Qarabag are undoubtedly well used to them. Eh the Ganja Stadium is most definitely grass!

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Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop

This may be a bit beyond your limited brain capacity but try keep up. I saw ArFellas post before it was edited, the thread then moved onto the next page and I didn't go back through the whole thread to see if anyone had edited their reply to mention it before posting my reply, sue me, or better yet just **** off.

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Relax RH, I think you did very well

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Originally Posted by Nesta99

Play the final in Tallaght - if Dundalk won the toss to be the home side Asterix was spontaneously combust!!

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Play the final in a neutral venue , the DCCS or Inchicore , actually to hell with it lets go for the Aviva

Was the Shamrock Rovers game a complete sellout lads and what was the attendance?
a friend of mine posted online that Eir have an annoying habit of having the crowd noise a lot lower than it should be! and there was I thinking it was the quality of my TV when watching the Dundalk game live!

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Originally Posted by TheBoss

Bradley has won 40% of his games as manager in Europe, quite impressive, here's how he rates among LOI managers that managed at least 10 games in Europe:

MANAGER	GAMES	WIN%
Paul Doolin	12	42%
Stephen Bradley	10	40%
Pat Fenlon	35	31%
Pete Mahon	10	30%
Royden Prole	10	30%
Stephen Kenny	44	27%
John Caulfield	16	25%
Damien Richardson	32	22%
Liam Buckley	26	19%
Michael O'Neill	16	19%
Billy Young	22	18%
Dave Bacuzzi	12	17%
Liam Tuohy	14	14%
Jim McLaughlin	28	14%
Gerry Doyle	11	9%
Dermot Keely	18	6%
Turlough O'Connor	20	0%

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The legendary Pat Dolan seems to be missing - last season's Airtricity League european competitions media guide credited him with an identical win record as Paul Doolin with 5 wins from 12 matches

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Originally Posted by Martinho II

Was the Shamrock Rovers game a complete sellout lads and what was the attendance?
a friend of mine posted online that Eir have an annoying habit of having the crowd noise a lot lower than it should be! and there was I thinking it was the quality of my TV when watching the Dundalk game live!

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5,524 was the official attendance given. There were probably only around 24 away fans there.

Don't think Eir actually do that, it's just when you're in the middle of it all it obviously seems louder.

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Originally Posted by Asterix

How are Qarabag a fair step above Limassol. It obviouly hard to judge since they havn't played each other and aren't in the same league but their european records are fairly similar, both regualrs in group stages and get some decent results against some better known teams.

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LOL, did you see both games? Qarabag could have scored 4 goals in the first half alone, and were streets ahead of Dundalk. That's why Dundalk did so well to get a result in that game. It was the way Qarabag were set up, their linkage and passing that shows they are a class team.

Limassol were well beatable in the Rovers game, id be disappointed if Rovers had not have gotten the win in the end. And they didn't look half the team Qarabag are. I wouldn't be surprised if Rovers snatched a result in Cyprus.

Games are not won or lost on paper...........

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

LOL, did you see both games? Qarabag could have scored 4 goals in the first half alone, and were streets ahead of Dundalk. That's why Dundalk did so well to get a result in that game. It was the way Qarabag were set up, their linkage and passing that shows they are a class team.

Limassol were well beatable in the Rovers game, id be disappointed if Rovers had not have gotten the win in the end. And they didn't look half the team Qarabag are. I wouldn't be surprised if Rovers snatched a result in Cyprus.

Games are not won or lost on paper...........

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You can't really judge who's the tougher opponent based off how they performed against the LOI sides. Personally think they're pretty equal, as are Rovers and Dundalk, Qarabag have a much easier league which helps their coefficient as they've won 6 leagues in a row so that's 6 years of champions league coefficient points but they both have similar records as far as reaching group stages goes with 4 europa group appearances each since 2010 and Qarabag have a champion league group appearance in addition to that, so in my opinion there's not much between them.

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Originally Posted by Ezeikial

The legendary Pat Dolan seems to be missing - last season's Airtricity League european competitions media guide credited him with an identical win record as Paul Doolin with 5 wins from 12 matches

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Well spotted! Modified it now. Don't know how I missed him. He is there in my records, just forgot to add him I suppose. Cheers!

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Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop

You can't really judge who's the tougher opponent based off how they performed against the LOI sides. Personally think they're pretty equal, as are Rovers and Dundalk, Qarabag have a much easier league which helps their coefficient as they've won 6 leagues in a row so that's 6 years of champions league coefficient points but they both have similar records as far as reaching group stages goes with 4 europa group appearances each since 2010 and Qarabag have a champion league group appearance in addition to that, so in my opinion there's not much between them.

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Well I disagree, looking at both teams for the first time I think Qarabag are as good a team as Dundalk have played in recent times, up there with that Russian team and Legia were good in parts, any of the Cypriot teams that have played LOI teams in the past have always looked beatable. Don't care about stats, sorry.

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

Well I disagree, looking at both teams for the first time I think Qarabag are as good a team as Dundalk have played in recent times, up there with that Russian team and Legia were good in parts, any of the Cypriot teams that have played LOI teams in the past have always looked beatable. Don't care about stats, sorry.

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There are far too many variables involved to form an option based of one game. Using more than one piece of data to form your opinion is literally rule number one of analysis.

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Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop

You can't really judge who's the tougher opponent based off how they performed against the LOI sides. Personally think they're pretty equal, as are Rovers and Dundalk, Qarabag have a much easier league which helps their coefficient as they've won 6 leagues in a row so that's 6 years of champions league coefficient points but they both have similar records as far as reaching group stages goes with 4 europa group appearances each since 2010 and Qarabag have a champion league group appearance in addition to that, so in my opinion there's not much between them.

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This is a nonsensical comparison.

Your perception or measurement of 'pretty equal' is obviously suspect when you declare Rovers and Dundalk in that category despite the current 5 point / game-in-hand gap, a whopping 25 point gap last season and an average of over 17 points a season over the last 6 years.

The current Bert kassie UEFA 5-year Club Ranking 2020 comparison is equally conclusive with Dundalk (8.500 points) having over double the Rovers ranking points (3.750)

0.50	0.25	0.50	1.00	1.50	3.750
1.00	3.00	1.00	1.50	2.00	8.500

If you feel unable to judge the respective qualities of Apollan Limasol and Qarabeg on the subjective evidence of the matches this week, a similar UEFA 5-year Club Ranking comparison is fairly conclusive. While both teams have qualified in each of the last 5 years, Qarabag have been significantly the higher acheivers with 19.000 ranking points

3.00

5.00

6.00

3.00

2.00

19.000

1.00

1.00

3.00

5.00

1.50

11.500

Rovers achievement in beating Apollan on Thursday was brilliant. Celebrate it and look forward to the realistic possibility of qualifying for the next round. The Apollan - Qarabag nonsensical comparison is not necessary to try to elevate what is widely acknowledged as a tremendous result

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Originally Posted by Ezeikial

This is a nonsensical comparison.

Your perception or measurement of 'pretty equal' is obviously suspect when you declare Rovers and Dundalk in that category despite the current 5 point / game-in-hand gap, a whopping 25 point gap last season and an average of over 17 points a season over the last 6 years.

The current Bert kassie UEFA 5-year Club Ranking 2020 comparison is equally conclusive with Dundalk (8.500 points) having over double the Rovers ranking points (3.750)

0.50	0.25	0.50	1.00	1.50	3.750
1.00	3.00	1.00	1.50	2.00	8.500

If you feel unable to judge the respective qualities of Apollan Limasol and Qarabeg on the subjective evidence of the matches this week, a similar UEFA 5-year Club Ranking comparison is fairly conclusive. While both teams have qualified in each of the last 5 years, Qarabag have been significantly the higher acheivers with 19.000 ranking points

3.00

5.00

6.00

3.00

2.00

19.000

1.00

1.00

3.00

5.00

1.50

11.500

Rovers achievement in beating Apollan on Thursday was brilliant. Celebrate it and look forward to the realistic possibility of qualifying for the next round. The Apollan - Qarabag nonsensical comparison is not necessary to try to elevate what is widely acknowledged as a tremendous result

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All the games between the two clubs have been pretty even, even the one when rovers were missing half a squad. There was nothing in either game in Tallaght. I feel safe in saying a neutral would call Dundalk and Rovers pretty even.

Who's better Porto or Ajax?
QED

It's not nonsensical, Qarabag have basically guaranteed access to the Champions league every year because the rest of the league is pretty poor whereas in Cyprus there's Larnaca and Apoel to compete with so they don't have that safety net so have to win every round to get into the groups.