Are you saying he's a better striker than the fella who scored 20 goals in a season?
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Are you saying he's a better striker than the fella who scored 20 goals in a season?
Have to question the players mentality, definitely not the right move. Safe to say his Preston career is over and his ireland career in serious doubt after this. Preston will surely see a league 1 team as a higher standard than what rovers are playing and the players choice to go home says it all about his mental strength
Bit of jumping to conclusions there. Maybe there was simply no other offers.
Either way, it's another blow for the league that another top player has gone to England and failed to make any real impact. And each time it happens, the next transfer fee is going to be that little bit lower, you'd imagine.
Eh no you don't... It says **** all about his mental strength. He had a choice between going league one and playing hoof ball which doesn't suit him at all or going to a club he knows plays good ball and showing exactly what he can do and hope that impresses Preston or someone who will keep the ball on the ground. More players should come back to Ireland rather than drop down the league if they're a technical footballer.Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzkill
At playing football yes. At scoring goals it's debatable. Tom Eaves is a 6'5 centre forward and I'll let you fill in the rest never really scored anywhere other than Gillingham.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
But Burke has never scored anywhere other than Rovers, in a mostly part-time league.Quote:
Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop
I don't understand this argument that Burke failed because the league wasn't good enough. It doesn't make any sense.
No, that they were two different players playing two very different games.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Burke didn't, and won't thrive in a league where the ball spends as much time in the air as on the ground. He's a player that wants the ball into feet with other players that want the same around him. That's his style of play, he's not a target man, a pacy winger or a ball winning midfielder and that's what you need in the positions he can play in league 1&2 the way most teams play.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
League one and two are still very much hit it long to the big man to knock down for the small pacy man or get it wide to cross into the big man and for technical players they're never going to thrive in that environment.
But if he can't actually make it in that league, then clearly you can play the ball on the ground as much as you like, but it's a less effective style of play than the more physical way, and so it must stand to reason that Burke isn't as a good a player as Eaves, who scored 22 goals in the same team?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rathfarnham Hoop
He can be better technically than Eaves, but it's worth **** all if he can't put the ball in the back of the net like.
It's not more effective, it's just the classic lower league problem of they don't have enough players to do it, start the season trying to play football anyway, lose a few games and revert to hoof ball.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Jack Byrne explained it pretty well on LOI weekly a while back.
If you're a much better player technically, why would you want to play with teams like that. He'd have a great assists tally if he hoofed corners and free kicks to him. He could then move to Wycombe and do the same to Akinfenwa.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
It would be an incredible waste of talent.
Or maybe he just wasn’t good enough ? Short term success at Shams hardly makes him a world beaters. Maybe he just realized his level.
If Preston sign you,your career maybe about to hit the skids!!
S'pose when they're getting players from here for next to nothing and so risk free but jaysus they'll suck any confidence you ever had right out off you.
I agree and would apply this to Kevin O'Connor too who apparently hasn't been up to much with City.Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzkill
Well he can play here and play nice technical stuff against part-time teams. Or he can move up to the next level.Quote:
Originally Posted by dfx-
No skin off my nose either way of course; best of luck to the guy whichever he chooses
You're not getting the point. First off It's league one it's not the next level. And secondly it's not about being able to do it against the quality of opposition, its about getting the opportunity to do it. Gillingham truly play an awful style of football (I've family from an area in England with a league 1 team so watch it a lot) passing the ball less than 20 yards just isn't a concept they've heard of. I don't know what your job is but imagine being hired for a job because of some degree you have let's use computer science for an example and you have experience as a software engineer, then every day just getting asked to install all the pre installed software on new laptops, that's not the skill set you were hired based on so of course you're not going to do that job again if given the option.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Hold on - League One in England is a better level than the LoI in every way. Facilities, supporter base, TV exposure, budgets, strength in depth - everything. Every League One club had a bigger average attendance last season than Rovers, just to give one little example of that. And we can guarantee that every one of them gets more TV money seeing as the LoI gets bugger all in that regard.
So it makes no sense to argue that despite all these really evident advantages, that League One is somehow not a better league than the LoI.
The bottom line is that for all Burke's lovely technical ability, he scored once and the other guy scored 22. In the end of the day, the job he's being hired to do is score goals to help his team win - and he's clearly not up to it. Style of play is nowhere in his job description. If everything went on playing lovely football, UCD would be in the European spots each year and Pats would be relegated. But that's not how it works out in reality.
You really just don't want to get it do you? No point trying to explain it any more.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Good point well made there.
Bottom line is Burke - like Hoban and Towell and Boyle - has returned to the league because he wasn't good enough to make it in England. And not for the first time either.
I've read the back and forth here and I don't get what you're trying to say either. What I'm getting from it is that Burke is technically too good for League 1 and 2 and teams in these leagues do not play to his strengths because it's all hoof-ball? Which for me is a massive generalisation.Quote:
Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop
But I think it's fair to say that he is not good enough for the Championship, otherwise another club would have identified his technical ability and made a move, no?
Why don't some of the Irish players try Holland /Portugal/Belgium ?
The obsession with England is understandable but as the money in England gets bigger and bigger the chances of Irish players making it are getting smaller and smaller.
The premier league is now effectively a world league drawing players from all over the world and the Championship is increasingly hard to crack as well
No I never said too good. I said he is a technical footballer, he needs to play in a team that play technical football of which very few teams have intentions of doing in League 1 and 2 and those that do tend to not get enough technical players in quick enough so start slowly then once the pressure comes on they revert to hoof ball. It is a generalisation but in my experience its accurate. Lots of teams start playing football on the floor in August and by October its route one when they realise the 5 players that can pass they brought in wasn't enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgonigle
Again didn't say he was too good just that the style of play he was being asked to play isn't his style so its not that he wasn't good enough for the standard just not the right fit. It's why more and more midfielders and forwards from Premier League teams are going to Europe and not the lower leagues.
Not being a good fit doesn't equal not being good enough for that level. When you go on loan to League 1 and 2 you have to get very lucky as a technical player to get a good fit.
I would say they have a bias against Irish players in those countries. They tend to lob us in with the brits and assume we play long ball, it's a stereotype they have that is hard to shift.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
Not being a good fit does equal not being good enough for that level. Either his current club are wrong and he is good enough for that division (and other clubs in hat division will be clammering for him) or he isn't good enough in which case he goes down a division to a level he is capable of operating at or returns to LOI. I can understand a player not fitting in to a particular club set up but a whole division ?Quote:
Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop
There really isn't any more to it than that.
I doubt these clubs (Holland/Portugal, Belguim etc.) scout the LOI or indeed schoolboy leagues to anywhere near the same extent that English clubs do.Quote:
Originally Posted by D24Saint
If you look at the tactics the Irish national team has used in recent years, it's understandable that the "Irish football=long ball" stereotype isn't going to go away any time soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by D24Saint
Quote:
Originally Posted by marinobohs
No, no it doesn't. Though that is in your completely unbiased opinion of course :rolleyes: As you drop down the leagues you get less and less technical, once you go below championship you're basically in a game of chance hoping the club you go to plays football for the season.
Of course this is a relatively new problem for Irish fans so I'm not surprised some people haven't grasped the concept of technical players not suiting lower leagues.
Look at Byrne, thrived in Holland in the Eredivisie but struggled in lower leagues England in struggling teams because instead of getting ball to feet it was going over his head, comes to Rovers, gets the ball to his feet and thrives again, you don't need to be an expert to see the pattern.
How many Championship sides came in for Burke ?Precisely none.There is a reason for that -they don't believe he is good enough for that level. Or do you believe there is some massive conspiracy against him personally ? I wish him all the best in his career, but that doesn't change the facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop
Its hardly a great secret that Byrne had issues off the pitch that may have hindered his career, but you can find that out at the AGM ;)
That's way too simplistic on Byrne.
He struggled in England for other reasons too - disciplinary, for example. His team finished bottom of the Eredivisie - yes, he was a young player, but it's hardly "thriving" to be in a team that won 3 games all season.
And he's thriving in Ireland because it's a lower standard. He's playing UCD/Harps/Cork for God's sake.
Yes, he did well in the couple of European games, but overall, your argument still doesn't stack up.
So for Burke the standard of his team is a negative because they're too good in comparison, for Byrne it's that they're too bad. He was their joint second top scorer, joint top for assists, in a few division team of the weeks (to do that in a team thats not winning is especially impressive) and the team got more points per game when he played than when he didn't. Hes also playing the likes of Dundalk, Derry, Brann, Apollon.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
It doesn't stack up because you have this outdated mentality of England being the standard bearer and Irish players being route one merchants neither of which check out any more
Sorry I forgot you're the Preston CEO and know every offer that comes in for their players...Good to know we still have a place in your head rent free.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinobohs
I think the agents of the Irish players have a case to answer.
Many of them have "links" to UK clubs and get paid for sending players over, how much effort is put into contacting mainland European clubs and promoting a player.
Seriously - if you can be a decent player at one of the worst top flight teams the Dutch league has seen in recent years, then it's only logical you'll thrive when playing part-time teams in Ireland.The LoI is ****e compared to League One or the Eredivisie.
I see no reason to discount Occam's Razor here - the simple explanation is usually the right one. Burke failed in England for any reason other than that he wasn't good enough. Twice.
If he had offers in the Championship he would not be back, simple as that.Quote:
Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop
Tell us about these offers or stop your bull****.
I doubt anyone (even you) knows what goes on in your head 😁
Salah, Boetang, Pique, Di Maria, Forlan off the top of my head to show that a player not succeeding at a club is sometimes just down to a bad fit, not that the player are the club are bad, just different.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Pique is nearly the perfect example. Ferguson knew he was a good technical defender but maybe not up to the physicality of the Premier League so let him go back to Barcelona where he thrived because the Spanish league is more technical than physical.
Your view of football is simply outdated.
I'm not saying there were offers, I'm just not saying that there definitively were't because I don't know and I know for a fact you don't either.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinobohs
Rent free
Jesus fuc€ing wept.
Let it go man,life's too short.
Yes, we DO know, because if there was an offer he wouldn’t be back. Can’t make it any simpler.Quote:
Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop
Now, stop embarrassing yourself and move on 😁
Who was it that Dundalk fans cant take opposition talked down or (former) players not being rated...
Seeing an awful lot of L1/L2 matches over the years and tbh it is generally muck ball bar the few chasing promotion. It isnt vastly surperior to LoI's clubs top end of the table. Certainly when you factor in the much greater resources it becomes apparent that the gap isnt what people think it is and what it should be. LoI clubs are also now moving to bring on players' technical ability rather than just physical attributes while coaching the football out of them. For all the woes we are punching above our weight even on plenty of average attendances. There are Irish players on the fringes of L1/L2 squads, hopping from club to club neasly annually that I believe would be bigger success in some of the continental leagues, possibly even further up the English leagues.
Have watched League 1 and league 2 football for the last three years week in week out. It certainly isn't better than the top of the LOI. League 2 is dreadful, teams with 6ft full backs and wingers.
All but the top of League One isn't a lot better, but make less mistakes. About thirteen teams last year within a point of relegation and Accrington Stanley could survive comfortably with an attendance of 2,500. It's about time Irish players started looking elsewhere.
Accrington couldn't survive comfortably on crowds of 2,500 without their owner putting in a million a year. They also got £1.5m in TV money. That's what - twice the windfall Rovers got for reaching the group stages of Europe?
Budgets are huge in football; league tables often very closely tie in to the clubs' wages budget. I don't see why that would change here just because teams have 6ft full-backs and wingers.
Technical footballers may be better to watch, but if they're outmuscled by 6ft full-backs, then they're clearly worse players.
There is some merit in what RH is saying. Some gifted players just dont work out at clubs throughout football at all levels. The trigger happy nature of directors at Englsih football clubs means generally, and especially in the lower leagues, that it is purely result based. Doesnt matter how you do it just win at all costs. This rules out the almost extinct aspect of management of building a team as opposed to buying a team. If Burke was showing serious potential at PNE or out on loan he would have gotten a club that his attributes would be appreciated. Instead he returned home, he could have been homesick and enjoying life is as important as earning a wedge. I think RH is being a little touchy on the suggestion that Burke wasnt good enough or that his return to Rovers is a step down!!