yeah but this thread is for "eligibility-type discussion".
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yeah but this thread is for "eligibility-type discussion".
It would still have been relevant to the lad though in his own thread surely. I suppose it depends on what you view as the purpose of a player thread; is it to discuss what he does during a specific 90 minutes once every weekend (so long as it's once he's moved on from the LOI :p) to the exclusion of everything else he might do or provoke, or should transfer rumours, jokes and discussion about and related to his conduct be allowed?
Anyway, we can agree to disagree.
Yes!Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
I suppose... :(Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Hmm, some people are just too sanctimonius for their own good...
;)
Good to get discussion back on Nigel at last. Nice one AB. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Not to mention pedantry.
:rolleyes:
okay, now you've lost me...
Bin this thread. All the discussion is about James McClean...
McGinn certainly "didn't think twice" about representing Northern Ireland.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
I am unaware the Saint Patrick "thought twice" about playing for Northern Ireland - have you any links to prove your point?
Chris may not like our National Anthem, but he sure loves playing for Northern Ireland - been told the South opened the door for him, but he told them "no thanks".
How do you know? This is not zero sum - just because McGinn represents NI with honour and distinction, doesn't mean he might've chosen ROI if the door was open to him. Hypothetically both choices down on the table, it's almost certainly he'd choose ROI. Same goes for McCourt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
But it doesn't actually matter, I'm sure you'd agree. Both players, as mentioned (and witnessed last night), play for NI with pride (and so they should). But the only difference between them, and McClean, is timing and opportunity. If McClean was capped eight months ago he'd be representing NI with just as much passion as the others. But it wouldn't negate the fact all three would play ROI ball if they had the chance.
I'm not posting this to stir. It's just reality and I find it difficult to accept the antagonism to McClean when he simply did exactly what NI fans wanted - acted decisively on his future. The tide on eligibility is changing and players are more aware. That's a good thing. Yet it seems to me many NI fans refuse to acknowledge this reality and it's particularly strange since the NI McAttack so lauded last night could very, very easily have been another pair of McClean's.
BTW - about time McCourt got a chance. Take it you still want Nigel out?
There might be a little less antagonism if he hadn't pulled out of the squad at the last minute after initially accepting the call up. You must realise this makes him look like a dick.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
It's a bad thing if players accept caps for NI junior sides, then effectively retire aged 18, 20 or whatever.Quote:
The tide on eligibility is changing and players are more aware. That's a good thing
Almost all acknowledge it. You can't reasonably expect them/ us to welcome it.Quote:
Yet it seems to me many NI fans refuse to acknowledge this reality
* it's a win, following one win in 19 matchesQuote:
Take it you still want Nigel out?
* largely down to failure to take half the games seriously, or persuade 'senior' players to do so
* succession of incoherent spats with players who then withdraw
* eight caps wasted on a schoolboy
So yes. Obviously he's unlilkely to go now. Should have been sacked after the Dublin Cup.
We'll probably finish fourth with 12 or 13 points.
Was it last minute? Nigel seemed very keen to avoid answering when McClean actually said no thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
He called Worthington three days after his call-up to declare his intention. Hardly last minute and doesn't indicated he accepted anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Awareness is increasing, it's a gradual improvement. It ain't gonna happen overnight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Don't realistically expect you to welcome it and the antagonism has been very pronounced, so I'm not convinced on the acknowledgement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Thought as much. A decent win against the Faroes is hardly going to change the rest. If anything his continual ignoring of the Derry Pele was a sacking offence in itself. I'm not suggesting McCourt's necessarily going to make a huge difference against great teams, but he's got to be a better option than Warren Feeney and some of those other guys, as hard working as they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
The (FAI's) door was always open to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
McGinn chose to play for Northern Ireland, because, in his own words, he "was born in Northern Ireland".
McCourt & McGinn were both great last night.
I take a less hostile approach with our Nige to most of our fans.
He competitive record stacks up against that of the previous incumbent - who some get very misty eyed and deluded about.
Still only one competitive defeat at Windsor under Nige's stewardship.
Best post. Ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sullivinho
See Swans post above. Little I would add to that. Except my pal from Doire who knows McCourt's family says it's rather more that that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
But you're stuck with each other, now, so make the limited best of it.
As for McGinn, what has Korea to do with anything??
Except as other posters said he didn't. Add a diary to the atlas for the wishlist...Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Why? Isn't all football at that level a matter of 'choice'?Quote:
It's a bad thing if players accept caps for NI junior sides, then effectively retire aged 18, 20 or whatever.
But why not? Even the most gormless should be aware of the GFA/CAS Ruling by now....Quote:
Almost all acknowledge it. You can't reasonably expect them/ us to welcome it.
I don't think Patrick hesitated when he got the call up to the Tuaisceart Éireann senior squad in 2002?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Perhaps you know different?
What's the GFA got to do with it?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Were people from Tuaisceart Éireann not entitled to Citizenship of the South before then?
Is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Can my son play for Brazil?
Well I don't have a time machine, but know it was the case around a year ago, so what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Erm, unsure what your point is?Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Talking about numerous apologists in the North, who're completely ignorant even now eg. The BT, as you :rolleyes: should know fine well from reading this thread??
Not with that handle name...Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
;)
1. What was the case "around a year ago"?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Are you suggesting Patrick considered switching "around a year ago"?
2. What has the GFA got to do with? I'm well aware of the lack of understanding of some of the media (both in Northern Ireland and the South) pertaining to eligibility issues.
3. How about Argentina?
1) No, just that he wasn't supposed to be overly keen on the North. Like I said, both parties, seem to have resigned themselves, despite some of his ( & McGinn's) 'fanmail' earlier from there in the year.
2) The GFA underpins the scope for dual eligibility. Only a minor detail.
3)Surely the Falklands would be more apt?
Another pointless colonial outpost...
1. If he wasn't overly keen, he could simply have declined the call up - and the 9 Under 21 call ups he availed of. Was it Northern ireland fans sending this "fanmail" to Patrick & Niall?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
I'm sure Patrick will have been well chuffed with the Northern Ireland fans chanting his name from the Stands last night - "Are you Messi in disguise?":D
2. Could someone born in Northern Ireland not be a dual national prior to the GFA?
3. You asked:
"Isn't all football at that level a matter of 'choice'?"
What other countries can a kid born and resident in Dublin choose to represent (assuming his parents and grandparents are solely Irish Citizens)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by IFK
Any time after the squad was publicly announced is last minute. Unless you're suggesting he didn't know about the call-up? If he didn't accept it, he could have phoned the press immediately, or tweeted, rather than wait three days. Like I said, he looks like a timewaster.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
Irrelevant. The problem isn't lack of awareness (are there really any 20 year old footballers from NI who support RoI but think they aren't eligible for it?), but people like McClean taking the p*ss.Quote:
Awareness is increasing, it's a gradual improvement. It ain't gonna happen overnight
Antagonism doesn't invariably mean denial, does it?Quote:
the antagonism has been very pronounced, so I'm not convinced on the acknowledgement
NB; you mean:
Of course no-one can be sure either way, but, assuming that Baird's claims were true, I have my suspicions that Kerr may well have been acting alone in a rogue capacity, for want of a better description, and against official FAI policy at the time. My reasoning for suspecting this is as follows:Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
i) In 1999, as we all know, the FAI voluntarily agreed with the IFA to select only volunteers or those who contacted the FAI first. (Sure, it doesn't necessarily follow that they kept their word and that such an agreement was respected, but it would have been naïve of the FAI to assume that they could say one thing to the IFA in public whilst making under-the-table approaches to northern players on the other and that they could or would remain secret. Out of interest, did the IFA ever have anything to say to the FAI on the Baird matter that you know of?)
ii) I know that Shane Duffy was intentionally ignored by Sean McCaffrey despite much talk of the lad's interest in playing for Ireland, including from family on Everton message boards and the like, and his previous participation in an FAI training camp. From the various discussions, it was clear that people, including Duffy himself and his family, thought it was a case of McCaffrey simply being pig-headed or incompetent until it became clear that McCaffrey would only entertain Duffy if Duffy contacted the FAI about making a formal switch first. Essentially, it was evident that Irish nationals born in the north were expected to make the first moves themselves and once that was done, the FAI would get on with considering them for selection.
Certainly, but, in his mind, he most likely felt he didn't have the capability to walk through it so opted to go through the other one that was open to him. Didn't the Fly say as much a while back; was it his brother or cousin or something had been playing football with McGinn and asked him about it? It was a lack of belief in his own capabilities and the fact that the IFA came calling that guided his decision more so than any long-standing love for NI. I mean, why would a self-admitted Ireland fan want to play for NI over the FAI team if things were as black and white as that and he had an equal chance of getting into both teams?Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
That came in response to alleged anger as a result of the revelation that he supported Ireland and read in full:Quote:
McGinn chose to play for Northern Ireland, because, in his own words, he "was born in Northern Ireland".
"The bottom line is that I was born in Northern Ireland and I chose to play for Northern Ireland so I will always give 100% no matter what. Nothing changes and that's the bottom line.
I never set out to upset anyone. Maybe it was the wrong time for the comments but at the end of the day I will always give 100% any time I'm called upon and I think I've done that."
You could interpret that rather diplomatic opening line to mean whatever you want it to mean really. He's not necessarily saying that he chose to play for NI specifically because he was born there. He didn't say, for example, "The bottom line is that I was born in Northern Ireland so I chose to play for Northern Ireland..." Even if he was saying what you claim, he's not saying it was the reason to the exclusion of all other possible contributing reasons. Your assumption would be to imply that he would never have considered playing for Ireland simply because he wasn't born south of the border, but we know that isn't true. His quote could mean, "I have a deep affiliation with NI from birth...", or it could mean (more likely), "I was born in NI, so I'm eligible, and I'm happy to give my all for them even though I've supported Ireland all my life..."
I'd imagine he'd have needed a bit of time to consider it before he tied himself down to something before later regretting it, although I understand you may classify such a person as a textbook timewaster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
I came across this on another forum and thought it was pretty funny:
http://scienceblogs.com/startswithab...infoil-hat.jpgQuote:
rumour around Windsor tonight was that part of deal to Sunderland was issue of which Country he would play for, now who is the chairman of Sunderland , wonder if his signing on fee was boosted by switching Country
Now if only i was a betting man
There it is. Boom.
Both they and the former captain of the same team all received these 'packages' with postmarks, on occasion from the North.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
So would doubt somehow they're as universally popular as you're claiming....
I'm sure our more learned posters will correct me, but if you've been registered to play in another EU country, for I believe 6 years, one can then play for that country based on citizenship via Residency grounds, subject to no previous competitive call-ups etc.Quote:
What other countries can a kid born and resident in Dublin choose to represent (assuming his parents and grandparents are solely Irish Citizens)?
There's been a few cases of this eg. in the EPL, with certain eligible players being linked to the England team, eg. Carlo Cudicini and :rolleyes: even Manuel Almunia....
Also there's nothing in most cases to stop people taking up citizenship of another country, as know Irish citizens who have dual citizenship which would then open up eligibility where applicable, eg. Australia, the US, Canada, S.Africa etc.
Except the same rules apply to anyone playing for any team with dual eligibility. So what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Except the choice is up to the player and remains so until they step on the pitch. Why deny it?Quote:
The problem isn't lack of awareness, but people like McClean taking the p*ss.
Antagonism doesn't invariably mean denial, does it?
As for the latter, it seems to be the case here, given the generally ungracious manner by which a choice is acknowledged.
Presumably the same would apply to various English, Scots, German, Zambian and Norwegian-born players who've represented the North then?
Double standards methinks.
Also meant to say, I'm guessing you wouldn't welcome Shane Ferguson into any future NI squad then, NB, seeing as he's in the process of thinking about who to play for right now.
Let's be honest here - McClean by dint of his underage caps was damned to you, and a section of NI support, as soon as her exercised his natural choice. I don't think it would've made a difference to many NI fans minds if he'd declared last week, last month or last year. Which I think is a shame, since he's been more respectful, IMO, than those who've gone before. Oh well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Have you any evidence that these packages were sent by Northern Ireland supporters?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
I have evidence of the rapturous support Patrick McCourt (and, indeed, Niall McGinn) have received from Northern Ireland fans.
In order to play International football, you need (as a prerequisite) to hold the Nationality of the country you wish to represent. Simply living somewhere does not cut it.
If you acquire a new Nationality, specific Statutes apply.
I'll ask again:
What other countries can a kid born and resident in Dublin choose to represent (assuming his parents and grandparents are solely Irish Citizens)?
I'd ignore him.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
I'm being entirely honest. I'd say 'dismissed' rather than damned, I don't want him to break a leg or anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
And it's one of his two possible choices, surely?
It makes some difference to me whether he declines a call up before it's annouced pulicly, or afterards within a couple of days of the game. Anyone who does the latter is clearly a time-waster.Quote:
I don't think it would've made a difference to many NI fans minds if he'd declared last week, last month or last year
Hardly setting the bar very high, is it?Quote:
he's been more respectful, IMO, than those who've gone before. Oh well
Are you sure that players are made aware they'll be in a squad before it's announced publicly? Shane Duffy clearly wasn't when Worthington called him up for the last time.
Not that I'm aware of.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
No (although I think they should be, generally, not just in NI's special circumstances. Just send them all one of those encrypted blackberry messages). But it's hardly relevant- if McClean didn't want the call up, he could and should have called the IFA immediately.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Well, the thing is the delay was due to the fact that he obviously didn't know whether he wanted the call-up or not, but, as I say, if you find wavering objectionable, that's your entitlement.
Not saying they were definitely, but do you have any evidence they weren't?Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Except you're wrong.Quote:
In order to play International football, you need (as a prerequisite) to hold the Nationality of the country you wish to represent. Simply living somewhere does not cut it.
What other countries can a kid born and resident in Dublin choose to represent (assuming his parents and grandparents are solely Irish Citizens)?
Unlike DI et al, don't know the exact specifics of the necessary regulations, but know that you can, as I cited in my previous post. And did mention certain examples.
Hmm, detect a high degree of irony here, not to mention pomposity....Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
I think due process still dictates that you are innocent until proven guilty.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
There is no evidence at all to suggest that Northern Ireland fans were responsible for packages being sent to either McCourt or McGinn.
McCourts name was sung from the rafters at Windsor Park on Wednesday night.
Regarding eligibility, I don't think I'm wrong.
I said:
"In order to play International football, you need (as a prerequisite) to hold the Nationality of the country you wish to represent. Simply living somewhere does not cut it."
Are you suggesting this is "wrong"?
If so, I would refer you to the appropriate FIFA Statutes.
Still no answer to my question about the Dublin kid?
Perhaps you were "wrong" to assert "Isn't all football at that level a matter of 'choice'?" too.;)
Except I answered them in the two previous posts....you are wrong about eligibility via residency and Irish citizens (including children) being allowed to take up citizenship of certain other countries.
So what, anyway?