Printable View
I don't follow why the age of the conferral should necessarily make any difference. Presumably, you're saying then that the Swiss players qualify under article 15? Are you suggesting that if Cox had acquired Irish nationality, say, last year and waited another year to declare for Ireland that he'd be in the same bracket as the Swiss players and would have been entitled to play for us under article 15 rather than article 17?Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
No, he's an adult. But if I had permanent Swiss nationality from the age of 5, why would I be changing nationality when I'm called up to the national team at 15? Cox, on the other hand, came up through the English system and was available (but not selected) for the national team, and only asserted his Irish nationality as an adult.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
A better example would have been a player who'd naturalised as an adult, like Cacau in Germany.
Aye, but Cox is hardly unique. In an Irish or international context.
Hmm, is this your thinking on it or do you know this to be how FIFA view it? Essentially, you're saying that whether the nationality was conferred before or after the age of 18 makes a difference? I admit, it does make sense, but what FIFA rule governs that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Article 15, plain and simple. It's not explicitly stated but it's implicit in the use of 18 as the cut-off point after which one must spend 5 years in the country to obtain nationality.
I see. So does that mean that Cacau, for example, would have been eligible to play for Germany under article 15 rather than article 17 if he'd moved to Germany earlier in his life and acquired his nationality before turning 18?Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I think that's how I would read it.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Good spot on the Swiss. Was thinking that there was a gaggle of "foreigners" in their team today.
Assuming he hadn't played for Brazil, yeah.
Simon didn't change nationality he just acquired a new one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
The 5 years residence is a FIFA requirement, regardless of the citizenship criteria of that country.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Yep, you're right. My imprecision.Quote:
Simon didn't change nationality he just acquired a new one.
Where does it say that?Quote:
The 5 years residence is a FIFA requirement, regardless of the citizenship criteria of that country.
Article 17 (d) He has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the relevant Association.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Right, but how do you explain Gelson Fernandes then? Or Nedum Onuoha?
You want answers!! :) I think you have sussed it out already that a kid growing up in a new country, already a national/citizen before the age of 18 doesn't have to satisfy the 5 years residence requirements in article 17 that apply for players who are acquiring a new nationality after they reach the age of 18.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
The FIFA rules are not hard on bona fide dual nationals but on the possible abuse of -- therefore that 5 years residence after 18years old.
All afaiu.
But if it's not expressly provided for, surely it goes back to Article 15? It's probably an academic point though. I'd imagine most or all naturalised players who are called up to national sides have lived in the country for five years, and from my understanding they don't really police it until U21 level.
The FIFA residence requirement is only for players 18years and older who are acquiring a new nationality and who want to declare for that association.
not sure about Fernandes, but Onuoha had definitely fulfilled the residency prerequisite when he started turning out for the England underage sides.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Is assuming the new nationality not a prerequisite to fulfilling this sub-criteria though? I understand that Cacau, for example, only became eligible to play for Germany in 2009 after acquiring his German nationality. German nationality law stipulates that a German residency lasting at least eight years must be fulfilled in order to become a naturalised German citizen. If he merely had to satisfy the sub-criteria alone, he could have declared for Germany a few years prior and could have been playing for them without even possessing German nationality. Surely that's not correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
He doesn't necessarily have to grow up in the country and undergo naturalisation though, does he, assuming this analysis is correct? Wouldn't this mean that that hypothetical English-born player whose nationality had been passed down via the birth registration method from an Irish-born great-grandparent through English-born grandparents and parents I was talking about earlier in the thread would actually qualify to play for us under article 15 assuming they'd had their birth registered before they passed the age of 18?Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
As geysir says, it would appear that the 5-year residency requirement only comes into effect for those who are acquiring a new nationality after the age of 18. Onuoha would have acquired British nationality before the age of 18 and, if I'm reading the thinking of others properly, and they're correct, qualified to play for England under article 15.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
You are complicating the issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
The heading to Article 17 is Acquisition of a new nationality
The sub articles outline the FIFA criteria for that new national.
The FIFA criteria assume that the player has already satisfied the citizenship criteria of his new country.
If that country has a 10 year residency requirement, then first the player has to satisfy that requirement to become a citizen.
The player Cacao has to have the German nationality before he can declare for Germany.
FIFA don't confer citizenship.
Article 17 is so construed that an association just cant fast track citizenship for foreign born players who have no connection to that country, in order to have that player available for the national team.
A kid is born in a foreign country and is a citizen of that country. However, he manages to acquire Irish citizenship through having an Irish great grand parent connection. He identifies himself as an Irish national from a young age. If the conditions of article 17 are to be applied, he does not satisfy the criteria of having at least a parent/grandparent connection. But if he was called up the Irish u17 squad, showed his Irish passport (article 15 eligibility assumed) and was selected in competitive underage games and continued to be selected up to senior level, I think it's possible he could slip through the crack. But I would more guess that the FAI have to present proof to FIFA that a player born outside Ireland, satisfies the parent/grandparent/5 year residency requirement.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Would that be any different to the Swiss Football Association having to present proof to FIFA that, say, Johan Djourou satisfies the same requirement? (He doesn't, for what it's worth, or at least didn't at the time he received his first cap for Switzerland.) And if so, why exactly? Or are you suggesting that Djourou might have "slipped through the crack"?Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir