LoI in Europe 2018

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03/08/2018, 12:16 PM
micls

Quote:

Originally Posted by oriel

This is mental stuff EL P, you must be thinking about the comparison between Dundalk and Cork in Europe a lot if you are coming out with percentage stats !

Do you keep a spreadsheet on things like this?

He does, he loves spreadsheets. And it's not a dundalk thing, he's a bit obsessed with stats in general. It's a problem really.
03/08/2018, 12:21 PM
pineapple stu

In fairness, doing simple maths is hardly "mental stuff"

(Technically, Dundalk could be said to have beaten Maccabi Tel-Aviv on away goals btw)
03/08/2018, 12:23 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by sullanefc

What is really arrogant is when you consider your club purveyors of total football and the man city of LOI.

As a neutral in all this, are you really accusing a Derry fan of thinking they're purveyors of total football and the man city of LOI.?

Seriously?

WTF like?

(Even if you thought you were replying to a Dundalk fan, it's still daft hyperbole.)
03/08/2018, 12:24 PM
El-Pietro

Quote:

Originally Posted by oriel

This is mental stuff EL P, you must be thinking about the comparison between Dundalk and Cork in Europe a lot if you are coming out with percentage stats !

Do you keep a spreadsheet on things like this?

Spreadsheets are great. I love spreadhsheets If you don't keep spreadhsheets then you are missing out. With that said I don't keep any spreadsheets on Dundalk, aside from one google doc for league predictions with a small group of friends.

Win percentage is a very simple thing to calculate, I saw that the numbers looked similar (4/14 and 7/24) and worked it out really quickly.
03/08/2018, 12:26 PM
El-Pietro

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

As a neutral in all this, are you really accusing a Derry fan of thinking they're purveyors of total football and the man city of LOI.?

Seriously?

WTF like?

(Even if you thought you were replying to a Dundalk fan, it's still daft hyperbole.)

I think hes referring to a post by a Dundalk fan on OW which has been floating around for the last few days. The Dundalk fan told an AEK Larnaca fan that Dundalk were Man City to Cork Citys Stoke. Probably taking the **** but you open yourself up to criticism with a post like that.
03/08/2018, 12:30 PM
pineapple stu

Hm. Can see how it could be read as that, although it's not the obvious first impression you'd take.

But still, extrapolating from one internet post to attack another fan of that club is silly.
03/08/2018, 1:03 PM
NeverFeltBetter

I remember when Limerick were described as the "Man City of the LOI". Good times.
03/08/2018, 1:12 PM
micls

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Hm. Can see how it could be read as that, although it's not the obvious first impression you'd take.

But still, extrapolating from one internet post to attack another fan of that club is silly.

That post was particularly ridiculous but he's far from the only dundalk fan that's bought into the total football stuff. No dundalk fan pulled him up on it. And another fan said a dundalk ajax game would be the 'totalest of total football'.

I'm sure it's not representative of all their fans, but it's not surprising people are taking the ****.
03/08/2018, 2:03 PM
paul_oshea

Was doing rail and sail so havent had a chance to reply. You meet some quirky individuals on that, guessing many LOI supporters.

Interesting points about O'Donnell, he stood out in that 2016 run as someone who could get on the ball, hold on to it, and pick the simple pass. But Shields did that just as well in the home game against Larnaca. So is it a bit of revisionism? Or a bit of both.

Reading the independent article, a couple of words stood out, one such was tardy. The players looked leggy early on, no one was tracking back, i doubt the dimensions had that much to do with it, so larnaca were finding loads of space, but they were also finding that space in the first game , but this time they did something about it. I also remember seeing on the first water-break shileds putting a towel around his head like he was fcuked already. i know by that stage they were already 1 down but still it all seemed to have affected them very quickly. Either way still no excuse for getting hammered 4 0.

One thing mentioned with cork and dundalk and even rovers the last few games was the chances that were not taken, McMillan would have taken a couple of those chances and I think that's another key difference here between the two sides(2016/2018 not cork v ddalk) - hobans not at that level. There was an awful lot of inaction and two-minds thinking from Dundalk over the two legs.

Gannon couldnt have been a full 90 mins match fit though if hed been out, its easy to say kenny should have played him from the start but if he had and wasnt match fit, the opposite would be said. he definitely improved them 2nd half. Cleary isn't good enough, positional sense is poor and doesnt have the speed. Missing Vemmelund? I think definitely.

Interesting that people think kenny is now in trouble given the owners and players brought in. How much of that money used would not have actually come from 2016? How much have the americans invested ?
03/08/2018, 2:12 PM
Philosophizer

It's all ifs and buts at this stage, BUT can anyone who was in the stadium in Larnaca comment about the warm up??

Damien Lynch was co-commentating on Eir and mentioned that the Dundalk lads were tearing around the place in the warm up, whereas the Larnaca lads rarely broke out of a trot. Surely Dundalk didn't overdo the warm-up in the heat and sunshine...

I'm hoping that would be a far too elementary mistake to be made at this level...
03/08/2018, 2:14 PM
paul_oshea

Another thing about the cypriots, that stadium wasnt that big, the supporters there weren't that many. Whats larnacas budget like? Cillian sheridan must be better than i thought :D Lots of russians in cyprus, lots of russian "money" floating around. I wonder if there is an involvement with some clubs, because given their stadium and the general population they shouldnt be doing any better than say galway/limerick :D
03/08/2018, 2:15 PM
paul_oshea

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philosophizer

It's all ifs and buts at this stage, BUT can anyone who was in the stadium in Larnaca comment about the warm up??

Damien Lynch was co-commentating on Eir and mentioned that the Dundalk lads were tearing around the place in the warm up, whereas the Larnaca lads rarely broke out of a trot. Surely Dundalk didn't overdo the warm-up in the heat and sunshine...

I'm hoping that would be a far too elementary mistake to be made at this level...

In general though the larnaca lads never did that, they were very relaxed without possession and didn't do much pressing. But ya i get what youre saying good question, it cant be that simple though.
03/08/2018, 2:28 PM
Philosophizer

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Another thing about the cypriots, that stadium wasnt that big, the supporters there weren't that many. Whats larnacas budget like? Cillian sheridan must be better than i thought :D Lots of russians in cyprus, lots of russian "money" floating around. I wonder if there is an involvement with some clubs, because given their stadium and the general population they shouldnt be doing any better than say galway/limerick :D

i think it's common knowledge they have a financial backer who's paying all these lads coming from la liga.
03/08/2018, 2:30 PM
sbgawa

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Was doing rail and sail so havent had a chance to reply. You meet some quirky individuals on that, guessing many LOI supporters.

Interesting points about O'Donnell, he stood out in that 2016 run as someone who could get on the ball, hold on to it, and pick the simple pass. But Shields did that just as well in the home game against Larnaca. So is it a bit of revisionism? Or a bit of both.

Reading the independent article, a couple of words stood out, one such was tardy. The players looked leggy early on, no one was tracking back, i doubt the dimensions had that much to do with it, so larnaca were finding loads of space, but they were also finding that space in the first game , but this time they did something about it. I also remember seeing on the first water-break shileds putting a towel around his head like he was fcuked already. i know by that stage they were already 1 down but still it all seemed to have affected them very quickly. Either way still no excuse for getting hammered 4 0.

One thing mentioned with cork and dundalk and even rovers the last few games was the chances that were not taken, McMillan would have taken a couple of those chances and I think that's another key difference here between the two sides(2016/2018 not cork v ddalk) - hobans not at that level. There was an awful lot of inaction and two-minds thinking from Dundalk over the two legs.

Gannon couldnt have been a full 90 mins match fit though if hed been out, its easy to say kenny should have played him from the start but if he had and wasnt match fit, the opposite would be said. he definitely improved them 2nd half. Cleary isn't good enough, positional sense is poor and doesnt have the speed. Missing Vemmelund? I think definitely.

Interesting that people think kenny is now in trouble given the owners and players brought in. How much of that money used would not have actually come from 2016? How much have the americans invested ?

How much have the Americans invested is a good question.
I'd guess (and that's all it is) that they bought the club for zippo but the old owners took out all the cash (and good luck to them) , so their investment is this years playing budget + CEO + admin (assuming they got the club for zero).
With €500,000 from Europe this year they would be looking at losses for the year but not cathestrophic losses, probably less than a million.
Question is how much will they be prepared to invest in next years budget and whether this defeat makes them question will European progress be as cheap as they thought.
Difference being if they had two rounds in next years champions league that would be million plus of euro money and would be a breakeven for the year.
The off season will be interesting in terms of investment by Peak 6 assuming Dundalk win the league.
03/08/2018, 2:33 PM
sullanefc

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

As a neutral in all this, are you really accusing a Derry fan of thinking they're purveyors of total football and the man city of LOI.?

Keep up Pineapple. I've translated my post below to the queens english for you. I hope this helps to clarify that I was not referring to the other "City".

Quote:

Originally Posted by sullanefc

What is really arrogant is when one considers ones club purveyors of total football and the man city of LOI.
03/08/2018, 2:42 PM
pineapple stu

Well, no - that also doesn't refer to Dundalk.

However, we have had it translated from Corkish, and I guess ye lot are doing well enough with the pigeon English that passes down there. :) So the point is taken.

But - what about the nonsensically excessive hyperbole?
03/08/2018, 2:55 PM
oriel

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbgawa

How much have the Americans invested is a good question.
I'd guess (and that's all it is) that they bought the club for zippo but the old owners took out all the cash (and good luck to them) , so their investment is this years playing budget + CEO + admin (assuming they got the club for zero).
With �500,000 from Europe this year they would be looking at losses for the year but not cathestrophic losses, probably less than a million.
Question is how much will they be prepared to invest in next years budget and whether this defeat makes them question will European progress be as cheap as they thought.
Difference being if they had two rounds in next years champions league that would be million plus of euro money and would be a breakeven for the year.
The off season will be interesting in terms of investment by Peak 6 assuming Dundalk win the league.

It was obviously never made public what the Peak 6 led consortium bought DFC for, but the two previous owners did get a payout which they 100% deserved, I think part of the sale was that a good chunk remained as cash at bank. One thing for certain is they are responsible for all bills, so the 0.5M would be a modest incoming in their eyes, but maybe not so bad in their first year and for the lesser of the two Euro competitions. I think they have their eye on CL monies from next year.

Just the small matter of winning the league, favourable draws after the second round and progression a few rounds for all of that, and probably better players too !
03/08/2018, 2:57 PM
paul_oshea

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philosophizer

i think it's common knowledge they have a financial backer who's paying all these lads coming from la liga.

It might be but having a wealthy backer doesn't get around the FFP right? Theyd still have to show steady income unless of course its masked as sponsorship.
03/08/2018, 2:58 PM
paul_oshea

Quote:

Originally Posted by oriel

It was obviously never made public what the Peak 6 led consortium bought DFC for, but the two previous owners did get a payout which they 100% deserved, I think part of the sale was that a good chunk remained as cash at bank. One thing for certain is they are responsible for all bills, so the 0.5M would be a modest incoming in their eyes, but maybe not so bad in their first year and for the lesser of the two Euro competitions. I think they have their eye on CL monies from next year.

Just the small matter of winning the league, favourable draws after the second round and progression a few rounds for all of that, and probably better players too !

And when put like that it sounds like a Shels catastrophe waiting to happen, except with less considerate foreign owners.
03/08/2018, 2:59 PM
sullanefc

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

But - what about the nonsensically excessive hyperbole?

They are not my words. Ask the dundalk fans who made these claims.

I quoted them to point out an arrogance among their support. They are the ones with the hyperbole. The fawning of them on here and in the media probably exacerbates it but it's there.
03/08/2018, 3:01 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by sullanefc

They are not my words. Ask the dundalk fans who made these claims.

I quoted them to point out an arrogance among their support. They are the ones with the hyperbole.

You are tarring all Dundalk fans with the comments of two - or is it just one? - fan on the internet. That's your doing, and goes beyond the "not my words" excuse.

God knows what I could tar you with if I took a random Cork person on twitter or the ccfc forum as representative of all Cork fans.
03/08/2018, 3:05 PM
dundalkfc10

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Was doing rail and sail so havent had a chance to reply. You meet some quirky individuals on that, guessing many LOI supporters.

Interesting points about O'Donnell, he stood out in that 2016 run as someone who could get on the ball, hold on to it, and pick the simple pass. But Shields did that just as well in the home game against Larnaca. So is it a bit of revisionism? Or a bit of both.

Reading the independent article, a couple of words stood out, one such was tardy. The players looked leggy early on, no one was tracking back, i doubt the dimensions had that much to do with it, so larnaca were finding loads of space, but they were also finding that space in the first game , but this time they did something about it. I also remember seeing on the first water-break shileds putting a towel around his head like he was fcuked already. i know by that stage they were already 1 down but still it all seemed to have affected them very quickly. Either way still no excuse for getting hammered 4 0.

One thing mentioned with cork and dundalk and even rovers the last few games was the chances that were not taken, McMillan would have taken a couple of those chances and I think that's another key difference here between the two sides(2016/2018 not cork v ddalk) - hobans not at that level. There was an awful lot of inaction and two-minds thinking from Dundalk over the two legs.

Gannon couldnt have been a full 90 mins match fit though if hed been out, its easy to say kenny should have played him from the start but if he had and wasnt match fit, the opposite would be said. he definitely improved them 2nd half. Cleary isn't good enough, positional sense is poor and doesnt have the speed. Missing Vemmelund? I think definitely.

Interesting that people think kenny is now in trouble given the owners and players brought in. How much of that money used would not have actually come from 2016? How much have the americans invested ?

The only ones who think that are either
A Stupid
B Trools
03/08/2018, 3:16 PM
micls

Quote:

Originally Posted by dundalkfc10

The only ones who think that are either
A Stupid
B Trools

I don't think Kenny is in trouble at all. But, I do think he has a point that if he didn't win the league this year, it wouldn't be unimaginable that the new owners would want to look around. They're involved for Europe, they've made that clear. Not progressing in Europe and not getting Champions league will not be a happy ending to their first season.
03/08/2018, 3:54 PM
Yossarian

Quote:

Originally Posted by sullanefc

They are not my words. Ask the dundalk fans who made these claims.

I quoted them to point out an arrogance among their support. They are the ones with the hyperbole. The fawning of them on here and in the media probably exacerbates it but it's there.

You quoted one person. But go ahead and generalise anyway.
03/08/2018, 4:14 PM
sullanefc

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

As a neutral in all this, are you really accusing a Derry fan of thinking they're purveyors of total football and the man city of LOI.?

Seriously?

WTF like?

(Even if you thought you were replying to a Dundalk fan, it's still daft hyperbole.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sullanefc

What nonsense are you on about? Arrogant because I (and every other person in Cork) call the club City? It is this way to distinguish between sporting codes.

What is really arrogant is when you consider your club purveyors of total football and the man city of LOI.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

You are tarring all Dundalk fans with the comments of two - or is it just one? - fan on the internet. That's your doing, and goes beyond the "not my words" excuse.

God knows what I could tar you with if I took a random Cork person on twitter or the ccfc forum as representative of all Cork fans.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yossarian

You quoted one person. But go ahead and generalise anyway.

Whatever about louth but I would have expected a better reading ability from a ucd graduate Pineapple. Where have I said ALL dundalk fans???
03/08/2018, 4:38 PM
pineapple stu

Ah stop. You started by talking about "dalk" fans in general. It was a generalisation.

Anyways, now I've gotten dragged into this. My apologies, non-Dundalk/Cork fans
03/08/2018, 5:03 PM
EatYerGreens

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalymountrower

Termonfeckin is solid Drogs territory.You must mean Hackballs Cross?

Is Hackballs Cross a footballing euphemism - a bit like a Hospital Pass ?
03/08/2018, 5:04 PM
sullanefc

You're being silly now and I'm done with this argument. Go back and read my posts.

Back on topic: Here's hoping for a positive (Cork) City result against ("a clearly weaker than last year") Rosenberg next week.
03/08/2018, 10:44 PM
El-Pietro

Dundalk fans (and I know there's a least one other club who have been to Rosenborg) any tips for Trondheim? We have the Friday free and I always try and get one big activity in so my trip isn't relying on the football. It doesn't look like a Fjord tour is possible.
04/08/2018, 12:44 AM
CorribsideSteve

Cue Dundalk fans telling you to go to Hell, Norway :p
04/08/2018, 2:42 AM
Charlie Darwin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalymountrower

Termonfeckin is solid Drogs territory.You must mean Hackballs Cross?
Big test now for Kenny. Dundalk still good enough to win the title and the associated Euro pay out jackpot if he doesn't panic , still far and away the best of a mediocre lot.
It strikes me that the common factor in the LoI 's greatest performances in Europe in the last ten years is Stephen O'Donnell ,and he was badly missed last night.The fact that we haven't seen a centre mid with that calmness, on the ball skill, ability to dictate the pace of the game and tough enough to scare European opposition, since him, says all you need to know on what direction the league has gone...And to think Fenlon let him go in his prime!!

O'Donnell wasn't exactly a key player when Rovers made the group stages, despite scoring the famous penalty in Belgrade (as a sub). He's become an absolutely key player in Dundalk's success since though, and he's been one of the players who's raised the standard to aspire to.

And it was Croly who let O'Donnell leave (or he just wanted to leave, dunno which).
04/08/2018, 3:48 PM
El-Pietro

Rosenborg - Cork City in the tougher pot in the draw for the playoff round on Monday.
Should City progress we will play the losers of the bolded pairs or the winners of the non bolded. The number in brackets is the coefficient rank of the expected team to progress, i.e. the losers of the bolded ties and winners of the non bolded ones.

POT 1 - CHAMPIONS P.

Salzburg (AUT) - Shk�ndija (MKD) ( 5 )
FK Crvena zvezda (SRB) / FC Spartak Trna ( 6 )
Astana (KAZ) - Dinamo Zagreb (CRO) ( 2 )
Legia (POL) - Dudelange (LUX) ( 3 )
Alashkert (ARM) - CFR Cluj (ROU) ( 9 )
Olimpija Ljubljana (SVN) - HJK (FIN) ( 7 )
Cork (IRL) - Rosenborg (NOR) ( 6 )
H. Beer-Sheva (ISR) - APOEL (CYP) ( 2 )

POT 2 - CHAMPIONS P.

Malm� (SWE) - Vidi (HUN) ( 4 )
Celtic (SCO) - AEK (GRE) ( 3 )
Qarabag (AZE) - BATE (BLR) ( 1 )
Ludogorets (BUL) - Zrinjski (BIH) ( 1 )
Sheriff (MDA) - Valur (ISL) ( 4 )
Spartaks Jurmala (LVA) - Suduva (LTU) ( 10 )
TNS (WAL) - Midtjylland (then) ( 5 )
Torpedo Kutaisi (GEO) - Kuk�s (ALB) ( 8 )
04/08/2018, 10:59 PM
DFCForever

Quote:

Originally Posted by El-Pietro

Dundalk fans (and I know there's a least one other club who have been to Rosenborg) any tips for Trondheim? We have the Friday free and I always try and get one big activity in so my trip isn't relying on the football. It doesn't look like a Fjord tour is possible.

Trondheim is a lovely town, I too had a free day after our game last year and spent it galavanting around the place. There are some beautiful restaurants beside the canal. If, like me, you're into your music there's a nice record store which doubles as a caf� called All Good Clean Records. There's also a museum called Rockheim which delves into the history of Norwegian music. One thing I noticed when I was there is that everywhere seemed to have free Wi-fi, even the supermarkets.
05/08/2018, 9:26 AM
Philosophizer

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFCForever

One thing I noticed when I was there is that everywhere seemed to have free Wi-fi, even the supermarkets.

Well it is Norway after all. The country with probably the highest quality of life in the world.
Expect to see a lot of Teslas.
05/08/2018, 9:33 AM
El-Pietro

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFCForever

Trondheim is a lovely town, I too had a free day after our game last year and spent it galavanting around the place. There are some beautiful restaurants beside the canal. If, like me, you're into your music there's a nice record store which doubles as a caf� called All Good Clean Records. There's also a museum called Rockheim which delves into the history of Norwegian music. One thing I noticed when I was there is that everywhere seemed to have free Wi-fi, even the supermarkets.

Cheers. I'll look into that. I was hoping for more of one big day long activity but from everything I've read it's a really beautiful town to just walk around. Hopefully we win and get at least one more trip somewhere interesting.
05/08/2018, 11:16 AM
DFCForever

Quote:

Originally Posted by El-Pietro

Cheers. I'll look into that. I was hoping for more of one big day long activity but from everything I've read it's a really beautiful town to just walk around. Hopefully we win and get at least one more trip somewhere interesting.

Enjoy the trip bud :). I have a feeling you're in for a pasting but hopefully I'm wrong about that.
05/08/2018, 11:41 AM
osarusan

Quote:

Originally Posted by micls

No dundalk fan pulled him up on it.

Tbh I think that's a pretty weak argument to make.

Are you, as a Cork fan, somehow liable for criticism for the nonsense another Cork fan might post, if you don't pull them up on it?
05/08/2018, 5:04 PM
micls

Quote:

Originally Posted by osarusan

Tbh I think that's a pretty weak argument to make.

Are you, as a Cork fan, somehow liable for criticism for the nonsense another Cork fan might post, if you don't pull them up on it?

If something that ridiculous was posted on our forum, and no one pulled them up on it, or commented on it, then yes I'd assume people at the very least didn't disagree with it or take issue with it. I'd assume the fan base involved thought it was a reasonable post. That said, you couldn't post the sky is blue on our forum without someone disagreeing with you, let alone something like that.
05/08/2018, 5:19 PM
sullanefc

Quote:

Originally Posted by micls

If something that ridiculous was posted on our forum, and no one pulled them up on it, or commented on it, then yes I'd assume people at the very least didn't disagree with it or take issue with it. I'd assume the fan base involved thought it was a reasonable post. That said, you couldn't post the sky is blue on our forum without someone disagreeing with you, let alone something like that.

Whaddya mean the sky is blue? Ridiculous. JC out!!!!
05/08/2018, 5:23 PM
Ezeikial

Quote:

Originally Posted by micls

If something that ridiculous was posted on our forum, and no one pulled them up on it, or commented on it, then yes I'd assume people at the very least didn't disagree with it or take issue with it. I'd assume the fan base involved thought it was a reasonable post. That said, you couldn't post the sky is blue on our forum without someone disagreeing with you, let alone something like that.

This could get interesting ...........

(or maybe just a tedious debate about levels of ridiculous)

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