Serbia V Republic of Ireland - Wednesday, 24th March 2021 - World Cup 2022 Qualifier

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Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

Why would he waste 8 games trying to bring about a change in style and approach to games, to immediately bin all of that when the WC Qualifiers come around?

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Thats not the point, we've had numerous conversations on here about square pegs and round holes, the same argument can be said about the approach if the personnel we have doesnt match it, or the approach isnt working(in game), doesnt get the necessary output. Its a case of having a plan B. Not a great example but many of the good passing teams, like wegners and peps were always criticised for not having an alternative, when the gameplan wasn't working, they were found out.

There is always another option. THere should always be another option. No ones saying or has said to abandon anything.

It should be remembered that he didn't really play a 4-3-3 in Slovakia, probably the furthest he's swayed from it so far in easily his biggest match.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Thats not the point, we've had numerous conversations on here about square pegs and round holes, the same argument can be said about the approach if the personnel we have doesnt match it, or the approach isnt working(in game), doesnt get the necessary output. Its a case of having a plan B. Not a great example but many of the good passing teams, like wegners and peps were always criticised for not having an alternative, when the gameplan wasn't working, they were found out.

There is always another option. THere should always be another option. No ones saying or has said to abandon anything.

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Agree. Those awful Bulgaria, Finland and Wales games lurched on and on without any recognition that it wasn't working. No Plan B - and Kenny stood motionless on the sideline like a rabbit caught in headlights. Hopefully, that won't happen again.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Its a case of having a plan B. Not a great example but many of the good passing teams, like wegners and peps were always criticised for not having an alternative, when the gameplan wasn't working, they were found out.

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Tell you what, if the points of comparison you have are a guy who once went unbeaten for a league season in the Premiership, and a guy who has set the record points tally in the Premiership, "not a great example" doesn't cut it. If those are the models Kenny is working off of, then great.

Life is quite simple in a way. All of human history is the story of people just trying things.

Generally speaking, If it works, do the same thing the next time.

If you've given it a good go, and it hasn't worked, usually you should try something different next time.

From hunting antelope with stone implements, to developing the next generation of computer chips, that's been a reliable approach.

He's given it the old college try at this point. 8 games. 5 defeats. 1 goal.

It doesn't work.

When Kenny got the job we all knew (and presumably so did those who employ him) we would be moving forward with a 433. He will live or die by that.

There can be no one and I mean no one who expected anything but.

The only meaningful game to now was Slovakia, the performance was decent. We move from there and see what this campaign brings.

Hard to know what to think about the game today. So much has gone wrong for Kenny, but the best performance we've seen came in the one game that really mattered. Even if it a defeat, I hope we can break the goal duck, I think a 2-1 loss is much better than a loss to nil going into the Luxembourg game. There's the usual creeping match day optimism, maybe Serbia are no great shakes, maybe everything clicks for us and even the half chances hit the net. Trying to figure out the team, I don't think it'll be three out and out forwards, I reckon Brady starts for sets pieces and drops in as a more regular midfielder. We might even see something closer to a 4-4-2 or a 4-4-1-1.

Travers seems to be confirmed in goal
Coleman looks favourite right full. I'm leaning towards him picking Duffy and Clark for the experience although I prefer O'Shea. Might we see Doherty at left full? I thinks it's possible considering Stevens hasn't been great this season and Kenny has suggested we'll see Coleman and Doherty play together.
Cullen is the natural sitting midfielder, he starts, Hendrick seems a cert for experience, Browne might hold the upper hand for the other spot but can't rule out Knight and Molumby. I think Brady starts on the left of a forward three but plays deep enough that it's more like a midfield 4 with Hendrick covering the right side.
Robinson and Connolly seem to be the preferred forwards, but with Connolly not fully fit we might see Long or Collins as a more conventional focal point. I think Kenny would prefer the speed and free kick winning ability of Robinson and Connolly together, so that we can attack the channels and try to split the Serbian centre backs, with a more conventional centre forward, we're more likely to hit and hope rather than try to work in behind on the deck.

Can see 2-0 Sebia. But really hoping for a score draw. An away win an Kenny shouldn't be under any pressure for a while (until the inevitable loss at home to Lux that would follow at least!!!)

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Originally Posted by backstothewall

It doesn't work.

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Injuries and covid made an absolute joke of those "tries". It's like saying that Christmas is a bad idea because of the resulting 6-month lockdown.

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Originally Posted by DCWA

The only meaningful game to now was Slovakia, the performance was decent. We move from there and see what this campaign brings.

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Exactly.

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Originally Posted by DCWA

When Kenny got the job we all knew (and presumably so did those who employ him) we would be moving forward with a 433. He will live or die by that.

There can be no one and I mean no one who expected anything but.

The only meaningful game to now was Slovakia, the performance was decent. We move from there and see what this campaign brings.

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If those other 7 games were meaningless, which is highly debatable, he's been responsible for the failure to use those 8 meaningless games to blood new goalkeepers, and left us in the situation of our keepers having a combined total of 4 caps and only 180 minutes international experience between them.

My guess on Kennys team ( 433)

-------------------Travers
Coleman ----Duffy ---- Clark---- stevens

--- Jeff---- Cullen --------- browne

---Brady---- Robinson ------- Connelly

Please tell me this forum is a little more welcoming to new members than YBIG?

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Originally Posted by backstothewall

If those other 7 games were meaningless, which is highly debatable, he's been responsible for the failure to use those 8 meaningless games to blood new goalkeepers, and left us in the situation of our keepers having a combined total of 4 caps and only 180 minutes international experience between them.

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I disagree with that - we've had no friendlies (England aside) and the Nations League was important for seeding purposes. I don't think you can be too experimental when you're trying to bring in a new system with no friendlies.

And it's worth noting that none of our keepers would be in our full squad, which is a heck of a thing to ask him to prepare for.

Slovakia was the most meaningful game, but I think it (and Bulgaria) were the two where we had the fullest squads, and the performance in both was decent. Once covid starting causing havoc, it was always going to be very hard to keep things cohesive.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I disagree with that - we've had no friendlies (England aside) and the Nations League was important for seeding purposes. I don't think you can be too experimental when you're trying to bring in a new system with no friendlies.

And it's worth noting that none of our keepers would be in our full squad, which is a heck of a thing to ask him to prepare for.

Slovakia was the most meaningful game, but I think it (and Bulgaria) were the two where we had the fullest squads, and the performance in both was decent. Once covid starting causing havoc, it was always going to be very hard to keep things cohesive.

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Ive a bee in my bonnet re Bulgaria at home, tbh I thought we were cr*p. if we win that game we would have been 2nd seeds and be in a easier group etc

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Originally Posted by backstothewall

Quite simple really. Because it hasn't worked.

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He regularly used 3 at the back with Derry, and in the European games too. He went direct quite a lot when needed to. I don’t think he’s as stubborn as being made out.

We all know he’s trying to change the perception that Ireland players can’t be brave on the ball and go route 1. 99% of youth football is now played on the ground, and that’s the process most of this group were brought up with. It’s nothing new to the players, just new to some of the Ireland support. He’s on a hiding to nothing with the level we are at unfortunately. We might see shoots of green by the end of this campaign, but cant see tonight being a pleasant experience. Hopefully, I’m wrong.

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Originally Posted by Diggs246

Ive a bee in my bonnet re Bulgaria at home, tbh I thought we were cr*p. if we win that game we would have been 2nd seeds and be in a easier group etc

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I meant Bulgaria away actually. Yeah, the home game was worse. But away was decent and we created chances which we would have finished if we'd have had competent forwards.

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Originally Posted by backstothewall

Quite simple really. Because it hasn't worked.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Thats not the point, we've had numerous conversations on here about square pegs and round holes, the same argument can be said about the approach if the personnel we have doesnt match it, or the approach isnt working(in game), doesnt get the necessary output. Its a case of having a plan B. Not a great example but many of the good passing teams, like wegners and peps were always criticised for not having an alternative, when the gameplan wasn't working, they were found out.

There is always another option. THere should always be another option. No ones saying or has said to abandon anything.

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My point is that it would make little to no sense to spend 8 games, and numerous training sessions, trying to implement a new playing style, and a bit of confidence in playing football for once, only to throw it all away as soon as the World Cup Qualifiers come about.

This, after all, is his brief. The World Cup qualifiers is his main game.

I don't see any coach in the world spending his initial time in charge gutting the old system and putting in place a new system, only to turn around and undo all that when it comes to the first qualifier.

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

i was pleasantly surprised to see a few people with jerseys and ireland tracksuit tops walking their kids to school this morning.
i think people are more interested than might immediately be apparent. it is the start of the World cup after all.

i do think RTE could have done a far better job building up a bit of excitement. all its been for the last couple of weeks is the cheltenham horseys and the rugger and they don't have the TV rights to either!!!!!

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Did it myself, Bohs t-shirt (that one has got the "Northside ******" comment previously from a passing car in Laeken on the Northwest side of Brussels (gas stuff lad - if only he knew!)), Ireland zippy and Ireland fleece. There's nothing like game day.

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Originally Posted by LurcherLover

Please tell me this forum is a little more welcoming to new members than YBIG?

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I hope so. If anyone gives you grief, report the post. The main mod here is tets, and he's quite active.

Like anywhere else, it has its quirks and lunatics, but I don't think it's hostile.

This is one game where i have nothing to say in terms of positive opinions or predictions. I fear we will get absolutely tanked today. A good 3-0 should-have-been-more type hiding.

And i dont think the fingers can be pointed squarely at Kenny if we do. Where i do find fault is not adjusting our formation to something like a 3-5-2 as per some of my earlier posts which i think would allow us to field our best players in their strongest positions. Even with that we dont really have a #10 in the squad but nonetheless i think that would be the only way i can fault the guy. He has been beset with the most unfortunate set of circumstances ever to befall an Irish manager and even then has us playing a better brand of football.

The Irish team right now is an absolute headf*ck.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I disagree with that - we've had no friendlies (England aside) and the Nations League was important for seeding purposes. I don't think you can be too experimental when you're trying to bring in a new system with no friendlies.

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I don't agree either. For the sake of argument I accepted the premise that those games were meaningless. But they can't be important when picking the team, but meaningless after you get beat. It's one or the other.

Stephen Kenny obviously agreed with us and considered them important, as he kept playing the strongest team he had available. But if you're going to present the case that they were meaningless, all that does is take his record out of the bad results pan, and drops it squarely into the poor squad development fire.

[QUOTE=pineapple stu;2070074]And it's worth noting that none of our keepers would be in our full squad, which is a heck of a thing to ask him to prepare for.

I'll accept that Randolph and Kelleher are 1st & 2nd choice, but one of the guys left over must be #3. They've only been given 90mins each. If they were meaningless games that's a misjudgement that's now coming back to haunt us. As I said above though, I don't hang that on him. I think he's been unlucky in this regard.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Slovakia was the most meaningful game, but I think it (and Bulgaria) were the two where we had the fullest squads, and the performance in both was decent.

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I think we were utterly dreadful in that Bulgaria game.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Once covid starting causing havoc, it was always going to be very hard to keep things cohesive.

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I'll accept that the last round of fixtures were a fiasco because of Covid, and that there was nothing he could have done. It's the only reason i wasn't calling for his head at that point.

But it was only a stay of execution. If we don't beat Luxembourg his position is untenable.

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Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

My point is that it would make little to no sense to spend 8 games, and numerous training sessions, trying to implement a new playing style, and a bit of confidence in playing football for once, only to throw it all away as soon as the World Cup Qualifiers come about.

This, after all, is his brief. The World Cup qualifiers is his main game.

I don't see any coach in the world spending his initial time in charge gutting the old system and putting in place a new system, only to turn around and undo all that when it comes to the first qualifier.

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Who said anything about abandoning playing football or going back to the old style?

I'm suggesting trying a different formation in an effort to get round pegs into round holes, and make the most of the players at our disposal. If fact the formation is about the only thing that Kenny has retained from the previous era. 4-3-3/4-5-1 was probably the most common setup used by both O'Neill and McCarthy before him.