so what if he was phoned?Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
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so what if he was phoned?Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Edited
So, you're blaming Doyle for the press twisting his words and loading undue significance onto something he mentioned in passing? Actually, you're going as far to question Doyle's pedigree as a team player? I think you're being grossly unfair on him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
presumably Ward was informed by text he wasn't in the squad either.
where's the fury at the disrespect shown to him??
Ward is a very poor player by international standards. Doyle has been a mainstay in the team for many many years now. That's why there is outrage.
So only the best players deserve phone calls? Communication is only poor if the player being communicated with has reached a certain standard of performance? Trap's communication with players is obviously poor but this is a complete non-issue.
When did Ward take over for Kilbane? It really wasn't that long ago. Doyle has been a first choice player since when, 2006?Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
So what? He'll be back in the next squad. People are so melodramatic.
In my view, every player dropped from the original 29 should have gotten a call. Whether it's Ward, Doyle or anyone else. You can't have one rule for one and one for another. Particularly based on something as subjective as their ability or even on how long they've been in the squad.
Trap got it wrong in my view. Not disastrously wrong but wrong nonetheless. Coming on the heels of so many spats with players, it's hard to see how anyone can say that there aren't issues with his style.
A phonecall should be made.
But that's not to say that if a player is unceremoniously dumped by text he should be bitching about it.
I've never heard any of the Rugby lads moan when they were dropped, and you can guarantee they were furious.
Shows a slight lack of class and composure to give out when dropped.
I disagree with him being dropped and I disagree with letting people know by text but...take it like a man!
Can't imagine, either, if Kevin Moran had been dropped in the early 90s he would have 'expressed his disappointment' with a newspaper
Didn't Doyle say it to his club website (something Moran would never have had to face) and the journalists just ran with it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
A text is more personal than a fax to the player's club; like how it was done in the oul' days...
Yeah but that doesn't make it right.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
How many people were on here defending Roy Keane and his views and would share your view above? Personally, I detest Keane but he was looking for higher standards from the FAI. This is an example of it for me. Whether they used to find out in the newspaper, on teletext or by fax doesn't make texting right. Let's not just look for "ah tis better than the old days" if the old days were crap and now we are just less crap.
I'm not having a go at you Danny because I don't know your personal views but it's typical of this country to talk the talk about higher standards but when it comes to doing something about it, settling for second/third/fourth best.
30 mins of Trap's time is all this would have taken. It would have helped his relationship with those players when he does call them back in. That's good management with an eye on the consequences of your immediate actions and an eye on the longer term. It's a small thing but he got it wrong and has given the media another stick to beat him with.
I still think a player should be cute enough to say 'no comment' or something like 'i always want to play for my country and will continue to do everything i can to get back into the squad'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
A player making a comment about how he is disappointed not getting a phonecall can easily get tisted by the media.
Kevin got off lucky in fact. The media could have really given this legs if they wanted.
Imagine Darron Gibson or Stephen Kelly had made the same statement
Trap informed Doyle of his omission from the final cut by text, but that's not to say he will be in touch with the player within the next couple of weeks to discuss future plans and the like. He will no doubt be in contact with Doyle again, where they can discuss matters together if necessary. Doyle isn't a pressing matter at this exact moment in time. I don't mean for that to sound dismissive of Doyle's tremendous commitment either, but, at the moment, the focus for Trap must be on the team he has selected for a crucial World Cup qualifier. That's this Friday evening, in case this "scandal" has caused it to slip from anyone's mind...
I'm not defending Trap's method in the sense of it being "at least better than the old days"; I'm defending it because it's adequate and succinct, irrespective of what procedures were utilised in the past. It communicates the message sufficiently. Doyle knows what is required of him already in order to get back into Trap's selection and once he does that, it will be appropriate for Trap to discuss plans and other things in greater detail with him. People are complaining that a text is cold and impersonal. It's not at all, especially if one considers the norm of either sending a fax in the past, or even not contacting a player who hasn't been selected at all. A text can be entirely professional. If anything, Trap has done more than what is required of him in this instance.
It's just such a non-issue, I find it hard to believe people are allowing it to provoke them.
We'll agree to disagree so.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
I know what you're saying but I think Trap could have handled it better. In a vacuum, people naturally assume the worst and a text sort of creates a vacuum in my view because Doyle (and the others) don't really have a chance to respond. Even if that's only for a short time and Trap contacts them later, those feelings can fester and become a problem.
That notwithstanding, it is being blown up by people pursuing an agenda.
I'm sure Trap didn't text incognito. Doyle has Trap's number too if he feels a response is necessary or appropriate. That wouldn't be out of line, would it?
You certainly don't want to be having that sort of communication via text in my opinion. Too open to misinterpretation.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
The onus, for me, is also on Trap to ensure that it is communicated in the best way possible so that, even if Doyle disagrees with the decision and thinks it's completely wrong, he can have no gripe with the manager who has had the balls and courtesy to make the effort to explain it to him.
As a manager, I think that's his duty.
I don't see why Trap should be under any duty to explain the reason for their omission to omitted players. In fact, one could say the reason might be already pretty obvious and implicitly communicated by the very fact of the omission itself; that the player in question isn't performing well enough to merit a place in the squad. Doyle could always reply via text and request and phone discussion. There's no reason to assume that Trap wouldn't be willing to accommodate such a request from someone he values as a player. That would be assuming that Doyle had taken issue with Trap's method in the first place. Do we know for certain that Trap hasn't actually spoken to Doyle in greater detail since anyway? He at least specified to the media that he has future plans for Doyle, so there's no doubt they will be in communication in the near future.
The reason he should explain it is because he is going to recall those players at some stage. If he has p!ssed those players off now (which he appears to have done), then he may not get as much out of them in the future. You can say that's not very professional from them but it's human nature. He's paid to manage and in my opinion, that's part of management.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
He has also given the media a big stick to beat him with and the FAI too if they want to. The media have blown it out of proportion but he has a history of communication issues - why feed that monster for the sake of 30 minutes?
Trap hasn't done anyone any favours here - least of all himself. He hasn't managed this situation well.
I'm a defender of his but he should have handled this better.
hmmmm...
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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Exactly, I don't care I don't think he needs to.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Whereas I was pointing out that I bet if Kidney hadn't phoned ROG, he would be one of those on a rugby forum going disgraceful blah de blah.
I don't think Doyle should be worried about the text, he should be worried about what he needs to do to get back in, and I think that is limited whilst playing at Wolves.
Actually you made one of the most bizarre arguments ever made on Foot ie.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Paul "Oh ya, but Kidney was right to phone ROG no doubt about his exclusion murfinator.
Keep your argument consistent and people will respect your opinion a lot more."
Murf "I don't recall commenting on ROG's exclusion let alone having an issue with the communication method."
Paul "Of course you don't have an issue, but I know your sort, and I can be sure you would be one of those on a rugby forum jumping up and down saying disgraceful that ROG wasn't phoned or spoken to(either before squad announcement or to be let known that he was going to be dropped) bla bla"
what I've picked up and no one else noticed is this and also yesterday from Trap as well, why would they be texting Duff?Quote:
"I sent a message to Damien Duff, Richard Dunne, all players. I can't call all players because you stay out (of the squad) or not. It's normal.
Geysir, you must have seen some pattern in murfinators posts? No?
I presumed he was talking about past instances when he texted players as opposed to people he texted about this squad.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
But when would he have texted Duff to say you aren't in the squad? Because that was what he was referring to in that quote.
Ya, I suppose again its just a misunderstanding leading to poor communication?
Which players has be ****ed off? Doyle said he was disappointed not to make the squad; he didn't explicitly say he was ****ed off with Trap or his methods of communication so we shouldn't put words in his mouth.Quote:
Originally Posted by barney
If Doyle is so distraught about receiving a text - and there's no indication that he is - I'm sure Trap could find a few moments to allay his concerns, be that this week, next week or within the next month. I didn't say he needs to set the time aside before Friday. Trap could set the time aside for him after next Tuesday if unable to do so before Friday. He'll be in touch with him in the future anyway. I just don't think the whole issue is that big of a deal. Daft stuff over which to be getting in a tizzy and certainly not big enough of a deal to be getting caught up about apparent contradictions in my posts! :pQuote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
That's why I said "seems". Whether he is p!ssed or not, I'm sure he'd feel better about the situation if he'd had the courtesy of a call rather than text.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
This made me laugh :DQuote:
Originally Posted by geysir
A couple of observations...
In the list of charges against Traps tenure this is low down the list. Somewhere between not learning the language (really people?) and his choice of attire for the euros.
Is text the ideal form of communication for this sort of decision? Probably not, you're not supposed to dump chicks by text these days.
Is it the most practical and consistent way? Probably.
Does a great servant to the team and a good lad like Doyle deserve an exception over the likes of Ward and other less established players? I think that argument could be made.
Am I just glad that Trap is actually communicating and informing players instead of saying nothing as he has done in the past? You bet.
Does any of this really matter? No way.
Did Doyle deserve to be dropped? Yes.
It's surely just common courtesy?
At least get an FAI official to ring particularly if a text went like this
'Kevon, you OUT. Need to show personality. Chow'
I have always appreciated employers who ring you up when you miss out on a job to explain their decisions and where you might improve in your next interview. it is employers like this that I always feel I would like to work for. Trap's lack of communication skills and the alienation of players are an ongoing issue in the team and IMO texting players about being dropped and not answering the obvious question of why and offering reassurance to them, is why he needs to go asap. Trap out!
I'm just assuming along those lines. It's Trap style to just allude generally to examples of when he's done something in the last five years. My reading is he was referring to him texting senior players about squad matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Btw I'm presuming the FAI is picking up the bill for Trap's mobile contract and its allowance of 4,000 texts per month. Fortune.
Trap out.
Or it's being absorbed by their main sponsors, 3 networks.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
This isn't unheard of, When o2 were sponsoring Arsenal, they paid for Reyes' calls to Spain
I really wasn't expecting a serious response to that but I appreciate getting one! FAI would need to offload the costs - the roaming charges would off the scale.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Celtic no longer interested. Wolves look for £2-3 million: http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/spor...sylvan-4022219
Celtic Interested again.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/mome...-29441725.html
Didn't Trap say something quite dismissive of Doyle in the Wales squad announcement? Something like "we know about x, y and z but we have better players now". I took it to read that Sammon is now quite a bit ahead of Doyle in Trap's thinking.
I think he'd be good at Celtic and Celtic would be good for him, keeping him in the public eye. Hooper is on his bike so there's an opening for him.
How Sammon can be rated ahead of Doyle is beyond me, even considering that Doyle has had a year to forget. Doyle has 12 goals, which is an okay return for his 50+ caps considering the thankless battering ram task he is given. I just don't see what Sammon has to offer. He looks like a target man so he makes us even more likely to play pointless long balls, which has been our problem now for years. We need to get away from that game.
I think if someone like Doyle had been brought on for an obviously knackered Sammon after 70 minutes against Austria to hold up the ball and do some pressing (both of which Sammon had stopped doing), we'd be in sole 2nd place in the group now. And say if Hoolahan had come on to hold up the ball, and/or Green's energy for Whelan's lack of it instead of Green being stuck out right.... Anyway, rant over.
Celtic would be good for Doyle. Hopefully get a few goals in the SPL, get some Champions League games. He's been a good servant to us, seems a sound fella and not nice to see him in League 1 with Wolves.