I guess Ealing based from what I have read in this thread so far would be clubs that have a U19 side lookin to get into LOI Klub Kildare Carlow-Kilkenny etc.Mightnt have the team names right though?Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
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I guess Ealing based from what I have read in this thread so far would be clubs that have a U19 side lookin to get into LOI Klub Kildare Carlow-Kilkenny etc.Mightnt have the team names right though?Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
CK United and Klub Kildare seem to be taking the better steps towards creating a side to compete in the third tier.Quote:
Originally Posted by JC_GUFC
Are many LoI clubs likely to commit to more than soundings? Six fully committed LoI reserve teams, CK United and Klub Kildare should be enough to get a third tier off the ground.Quote:
Originally Posted by JC_GUFC
Klub Kildare can't be let in with that name. It sounds like a summer camp for primary school kids.
Whatever else you might call it, a construction like that simply could not be considered to be a "Third Tier" of the LOI.Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
For implicit in any such deal is the idea that Licencing permitted, each participant should theoretically at least be capable of getting promoted to the next level up, with every FD club capable of being relegated into it, also prepared to drop down.
Simple fact is, many (most?) other league pyramids also have Reserve Leagues and/or under-age leagues eg U-23's/U21's/U-19's etc, but these run in tandem with the pyramid, not as part of it.
Well it'd be better than nothing!Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Actually most other pyramids have the reserve structure built in (though not underage teams)Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
So FC Basel II are in the Swiss third tier, Molde II are in the Norwegian fourth tier, Legia Warsaw II are in the Polish fourth tier, PAOK II are in the Greek second tier, and so on.
That said, a third tier of six reserve teams plus two other sides, as legendz suggests, isn't really a third tier. You can't add two teams to a reserve league and pretend it's a senior division.
Was surprised to learn only today that the Dutch have had a right dong dong to try to get a fully functioning pyramid established with clubs not wanting to meet the criteria to join the professional second tier mostly. The second tier there has twenty clubs & four of those were the reserve / youth sides of Ajax / Utrecht / PSV & AZ this season.
All the leagues are connected by a promotion and relegation system, but in order to be promoted to the Eerste Divisie a club has to submit a solid business plan to be approved by the Royal Dutch Football Association, as well as meet certain stadium demands, and some other demands that the association stated for all the teams in the top two leagues.
Before 2010 there was no promotion and relegation (based on league result) between the highest amateur level (back then the Hoofdklasse) and the professional leagues. In the 2010–11 season the Topklasse was introduced as an intermediate level between the professional and amateur leagues. Promotion was optional, so it was possible that the IJsselmeervogels who won the 2010–11 Topklasse, was not promoted because they did not want to be bound to the demands for playing in the Eerste Divisie.
In 2016 the Tweede Divisie was (re)introduced between the Topklasse (renamed to Derde Divisie) and Eerste Divisie to further work on stimulating promotion and relegation between the amateur and professional leagues. However, due to resistance from the amateur clubs to meet the demands for the professional leagues and worries from the professional clubs to face bankruptcy after relegation, mandatory promotion and relegation has been postponed until at least the 2022–23 season.
From 2023 to 2024, promotion and relegation between Eerste Divisie and Tweede Divisie has been introduced.
It sure would.Quote:
Originally Posted by GUFCghost
Fair comment. It can be a starting point though. There are very few potential new first teams building through the youth structures put in place. Shamrock Rovers are the only standout candidate to field a reserve team. A so-called third tier will be doing well to start with 8 teams as suggested. It will also be doing well to have 4 first teams and upto 10 reserve teams long-term.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Fair dues, I stand corrected.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Though looking closer, most of those leagues have rather more than 20 clubs in their top two tiers i.e. before you get to where the Reserve teams are. And when you do get there,. you're usually talking 3 or 4 Reserve teams in a division of maybe 12, 14 or 16 teams. That is, they supplement the pyramid, rather than (effectively) being it.
And in any case, 8 teams is not generally a proper basis for a league of any sort - 10 is usually the minimum.
Exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I'd have serious reservations around CK United entering the League at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
This thread came back to life because I asked where they intended to play should this ever happen but there is nothing remotely suitable to being a League of Ireland ground that their teams currently use from what I can see.
On top of that their u19 team have lost all 10 of their matches in the first phase of the u19 League - so if anyone thinks Kerry FC are bad this season these lads would bring it to a whole new level next season. I'd imagine there would be some link-up with Carlow IT should they join the League, so they may get facilities and a team that way!
John Caulfield had a piece in the programme this weekend about the need for an u23/development team - he's been getting a bit of stick for his lack of use of underage players when we're cruising to wins in a lot of matches this season.
I would hope that if the 3rd tier is supplemented by these type of teams that they can't be promoted to Division 1 as happens in some other leagues.
Just have the same rules that applied in the old A Championship - not just that the reserve sides couldn't be promoted, but the senior clubs would have to finish in the top three of the division to qualify for a play-off with the bottom First Division team, which would ensure that if they did come through that process, they would be able to make an impression on the second tier.Quote:
Originally Posted by JC_GUFC
So effectively you're resurrecting the old 'A' Championship, but with a minor tweak.Quote:
Originally Posted by culloty82
What could possibly go wrong?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Championship
Agreed on most of that. If a first team hold a First Division licence, finish as the top first team and are in the top half, e.g. 4 of 8 or 5 of 9, let them in a playoff. An active playoff system as much as possible within reason will give first teams in a third tier a lifeline. First Division clubs have been given a lifeline by 2nd to 5th entering the playoffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by culloty82
The main problem with the A Championship was that some Premier clubs detested having to enter a side. Pat's and Sligo were fiercely against it. The solution should have to remove the obligation on Premier clubs and possibly have attempted one national league instead of north and south. A lesson learned from the A Championship is not to have a repeat of the 3 clubs in Galway situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Another team who will want in will be Limerick FC.
Pat O’Sullivan is still keeping this entity alive and likely will apply to A Championship.
Can the League/FAI just flat out refuse? I’d imagine he’ll have Hogan Park as their home venue.
This would bring back memories of the Galway situation. I don’t know would he have any clout to bring in decent Junior players.
I'm probably more on the periphery of football in Limerick than you are at this stage JC but I wouldn't take it as a given that POS has any real interest in going senior again.
I doubt he can afford it anyway and the current 'project' is a convenient enough faux-altruistic shield for him to hide behind without risking any further exposure.
I presume his only interest is in keeping the "rights" to the Limerick name in League of Ireland football. I'm not sure he can just do that by running one "academy" team who just get hammered in every match they play, which is why I think he would be looking to enter a side in the A Championship. If he even causes some doubt around the feasibility of Treaty United that's enough for him I'd imagine.Quote:
Originally Posted by sadloserkid
There's obviously something still badly wrong in Limerick football that Treaty haven't been a success - previously people pointed to the move away from Markets Field having killed the interest in it. I know the Junior scene is very strong and hurling is going through a golden generation in city and county but Treaty are one of a very small handful of clubs who don't seem to have benefitted at all from the newly found interest in League of Ireland.
Just shows another problem with the current "We'll take whoever's interested" approach.Quote:
Originally Posted by JC_GUFC
Ok, they shouldn't get promoted - unless the rest of the league is either ineligible for promotion or unsuited dross that loses pretty much every game at youth level and clearly isn't ready to step up to a third tier...
LOI should steer well clear of any POS-related venture, though I do genuinely doubt he'd make an application at this stage. I can't find how old he is now. but I presume he must be pushing on, I don't know how much of an actual role he has in whatever Limerick FC is now.
Regards Treaty support, there's a combination of reasons of course, but never underestimate the fairweather nature of a lot of the potential support in the city, which has always been the way. If Treaty started a non-stop winning run this weekend and were flying high on the top of the table they could start getting closer to four figures. Consistent mid-table/last play-off spot with no realistic chance of promotion will get them a few hundred. LFC was like that too, albeit with a base support that was a bit more numerous in fairness.
I resurrected this thread wondering about CK United and where they'd played. Someone on the GUFC forum posted that the club have submitted to Kilkenny County Council to keep Buckley Park zoned as Sporting/Community usage and that they'd be interested in being involved in being the anchor tenant.
The club is referred to Carlow Kilkenny FC, so that's obviously from before this season when they rebranded as CK United.
Still I suppose it is an indication of where they most likely see their future.
Meanwhile Mayo FC have successfully applied to be part of the u14 and u15 leagues next season with Kerry FC entering the Women's U17s from next season.
Stadium nerd that I am, I googled Buckley Park.Quote:
Originally Posted by JC_GUFC
Seems to have been a very tidy stadium back in the day, but has been allowed to become very delapidated since:
https://www.facebook.com/eireguide/p...R3wteMQPSqZQil
and
https://scoreline.ie/a-sad-sight-to-...of-lying-idle/
Would cost someone a lot of money to renovate it, I'd guess. Also seems to be a good bit out of the town (3-4 kms?).
It's a bit of a run out of Kilkenny, but it's a fine little ground. Wouldn't take a huge amount to get it up to scratch again.
I doubt its as far out of Kilkenny as Bishopsgate is out of Longford Nigel! Shocked to see how diplated the ground has become. Last time I was there was 21years ago when Kilkenny City knocked us out of the FAI Cup in 02/03 season!Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
It's a fair bit out of the town Marty! Certainly not something I'd be walking anyway. About 4km out of the town centre. I was down around the ground a couple of years ago, but last was inside Buckley Park at the end of 2007 season with a big Harps crowd that night. Superb stand behind the goal that would rival anything in either division currently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinho II
The entrance to Buckley park is up the same lane as a nursing home off the Kilkenny to Callan road around 4km from the City Centre. The entrance is incredibly easy to miss as it isn't signposted at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
We don’t know what the criteria is for the third tier, we may not need a stand...
https://carlow-nationalist.ie/2022/1...als-on-sunday/
Now that the FAI have formally approved Mayo FC for the 2023/24 season, maybe they could start in the Third Tier Proposal, if it ever gets established!
:confused:
Further in what I posted the submission seemed to indicate that Buckley Park is in an area earmarked for development of housing and amenities. That would presumably help with the accessibility of the ground from the town - it's probably a similar distance from the town as Monaghan was.
That's one of the issues for clubs like Longford and Wexford I feel, it's an effort to get to the ground to arrange a lift etc. so it's very easy for crowds to drop off when things aren't going well.
In saying that if that stand can be salvaged and the pitch re-sown you'd think it would be the best option rather than building a whole new ground.
Apparently it is privately owned though, so a lot would depend on what the owner's wishes are.
Only for the Men's U14 and U15 leagues, so you'd imagine a senior team is probably at least 4 years away for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by nr637
The women's senior team could be sooner than that if their u17 entry is successful. The Women's league is very young in any case so it wouldn't surprise me if they were entering into 2025/26 senior season.
Am I the only one who thinks that 'CK United' is a terrible name for a football club ?Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
Unlike last season, there doesn't seem to be any new edition of the Licensing Manual on the FAI website - at least then, a person could track the timetable to see the deadlines Kerry had to meet, whereas now we don't know about any third-tier schedule if/when it does go ahead next year.
Nope.Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
If they didn't want to be associated with a single town or county only (makes sense), then I think they should have gone for something like "South East Celtic FC" - a bit anodyne perhaps, but they could capitalise on being the only "Celts" in the LOI.
KilCarlow FC / CarlKenny FC? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Not The Irish Sea FC?
I'll get my coat...
There's surely got to be an opportunity for a team here called the Irish Rovers?
I was bemoaning the fact on our forum that we have Wexford FC, Kerry FC and now Mayo FC.Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
Terribly unimaginative names - I understand that they don't want the new entity to be associated with (Castlebar) Celtic or (Westport) United in Mayo's case but 'Kingdom FC' could have been a bit different for Kerry.
Or even "Kerry Kings FC" - at least until they get (ahem) deposed...Quote:
Originally Posted by JC_GUFC
Aye, but don't you know the fate which befell the original Irish Rover?Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
Sure even the poor oul dog was drowned...
Are you trying to upset the sligo lads? they are a bit sensitive on this issueQuote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
For years the First Division only had 3 series of fixtures, e.g. 27 games in 2019. The Premier Division and First Division both have 36 games this year. 11 teams playing 30 games wouldn't be ideal. Cutting 3 home games each.Quote:
Originally Posted by nr637
With the Premier Division and First Division having a 36 game strong season, the third tier should build on that. Unexpected situations can arise. If there are 2 or 3 clubs with a First Division licence in a third tier, if any LoI club suffers an unexpected situation, a club can be ready to take their place in the following year. Where everything is going hunky dory, there can be a playoff mechanism from the third tier to First Division.
The number of potential first teams clubs in a third tier stands at 3. Kildare, CK and Mayo. Kildare and CK are likely to be the first two ready to join. The tipping point for a third tier then will be at least 6 LoI clubs fully committed to entering a second team. The running costs show be as low as entering an U19 team. The main additional cost will be the travel costs for a national league, as opposed to the regional leagues at youth level.
With this new proposed 3rd tier does that mean relegation from the 1st Div? That was one criticism the last time this was launched in 09!
You'd expect and hope so, whether that would be automatically or after a play-off could be decided later, when the number of interested first teams becomes clear.
A source in Mayo seems to expect a third tier in 2024 and that Mayo FC will join that tier in 2026.Quote:
The FAI are to create a third tier for the for the upcoming League of Ireland season, in which an adult Mayo FC team could potentially compete in their first year.
"It’s a better launching pad for a young Mayo League of Ireland team, rather than being thrown in at the deep end and being hockeyed every week,” said a source
https://www.mayonews.ie/news/home/12...tablished.html
The Irish Mirror have suggested since the third tier talk first started that there is likely to be promotion/relegation.Quote:
Promotion and relegation between the current First Division and the new third tier is on the cards but the reserve sides of existing League of Ireland clubs won’t move up or down.