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Another crushingly disappointing year of LOI in Europe. Hard luck, better luck next time platitudes are all that can be taken away from this year's collective experience.Fitness no longer is an issue, but tactical and mental awareness are still some way off what's needed to be group stage regulars.
Cork doing nothing here, although should have had a penalty considering some of the ridiculous calls the ref has been making.
"Maguire tumbles in the box as the ball is delivered in from the right. Cork players appeal for a penalty en masse..."
Ah it is fair, sure your best ever player couldn't even get into our squad 😉Quote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
It was a stone waller in fairness.Quote:
Originally Posted by White Horse
Cork haven't gotten many favours from this ref.
Some teams around Europe from lower ranked sides, winning matches and going through over 2 legs. 2 Lithuanian teams through. Could be Fola from Luxembourg too. Valur winning away in Slovenia. We just haven't had that win this year against a higher ranked Country. Yes I know Iceland is but you get my drift.
Ruzemberok from Slovakia beating Brann too; even Valletta only 1-0 down against Utrecht on aggregate with half an hour to go.
Larnaca and Cork fans would get on well as neither like tackles very much!
Basically they need the lower teams to average it out and make it a level playiny field.
Ive paid 10 quid in in pint bottles to have the privilege of watching this. Dundalk would habe beaten this team handy.
"Cork's finishing effort has been rather underwhelming. They're the younger, fitter side, but they too seem to be flagging in the dying minutes of this game. "
All in all, in Europe this year our LOI teams did about as well as anyone would have expected them to do. We beat the teams we'd be expected to beat and lost to the teams we'd be expected to lose to.
In Europe, the luck of the draw plays an enormous part. Rovers and Cork got ok draws but Derry and Dundalk had it tough.
With Dundalk seeded next yr I think they've a decent chance of getting through a couple of EL rounds.
A tame exit by Cork. They didn't disgrace themselves and showed glimpses of quality. They will need to improve their attack for their likely Champions League tie next season. They didn't create remotely enough chances over two legs. The Champions League is a significant step up from the European games they've played so far.
So only one LoI team left in Europe, and curiously enough, they haven't even qualified yet...
Philosophizer's summary is probably accurate, but I think it's still a bit disappointing. Four defeats in the second round of the Europa League takes the gloss off beating easy teams from Iceland and Estonia.
Leave it to the students - hopefully!
Very poor year overall. Last year may turn out to be a blip, and take on a kind of mythological status,like a sunny irish summer. Cork were much better when Sheppard came on, and youth plays a huge factor, but some of the Cork players looked out of their depth. When pressed or harried, there was nothing they could do about it. Long balls to a guy that's 5'9, surrounded by three defenders usually won't win you a tie, unless that guy is Messi.
So that's if for another year. 4 teams unseeded, 2 went through first round,with wins home and away, 1 went out AET & 1 got tonked by 2nd highest side in QR1. Better than the year we just lost and should be seen as a good year, relatively speaking & yet I'm a bit disappointed. Combination of optimism going into last week & what other 'lesser' sides have done in EL 2nd round. Maybe my expectations are a little too high. I did fancy Cork to do better against Larneca over the 2 legs & thought Dundalk could sneak past Rosenborg or at least win in Oriel. Oh well... There's always next year!
I think, by expectation, it was a bad year. Cork and Dundalk really could have got through their games. I wouldn't even say they were unlucky, but I think both teams under-performed in Europe.
You're mad, man. Dundalk over achieved by taking Rosenberg to extra time.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
In terms of resources, Rosenborg are in another universe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philosophizer
In terms of what was out on the pitch, I didn't think there was any great deal of difference between them. Dundalk blew two 1-0 leads, and they were deservedly punished for that, despite having more great chances that they failed to convert.
Thats a back handed compliment Nigel if ever there was one. I am glad that the expectation has risen to this extent! It could have been worse or a lot better especially for Dundalk and the finances involved. The width of a cross bar and go through and it wouldt have been an asses roar off getting 8 or 9 million at least over 2 European campaigns...ifs and buts.
Yeah, I thought Dundalk's result was the best of an iffy lot alright.
Arguably Sligo's win there a couple of years ago is impacting on it.
Disappointed by Cork against the Cypriot lot, though I know the Cyprus league is decent and Larnaka made the group stages a couple of years ago. But they're still not one of the top teams there.
Rovers did about what was expected given their season. And the less said about Derry, the better.
With an inform Maguire ye could have got into the Champions League last year! Imagine how f**ked we would be then!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgonigle
As for us tonight? Jesus I hate football.
Coming off the bench he might have nabbed a peno allright.
I have to say I expected a lot more from Cork over the 2 legs, they didn't look at any time in control and you never got the impression they could lift it. They'll face bigger fish too next season, but 2 defeats in this round of the EL was poor enough really.
Disappointing season overall from all clubs.
One of the frustrating things about this year in Europe for me is that if Dundalk had Horgan/Boyle they would have beaten Rosenborg of that I have no doubt, but its the same old problem, as soon as someone gets to a certain level..... their gone at bargain basement transfer fee's (Maguire this season) the resources are simply not there, and the asset stripping of players from the league at mickey mouse transfer fee's ( or even worse no f##king transfer fee) means that the clubs get FA in the bank.... and the circle continues.... and i'm not even going to go into the whole Delaney/FAI thing as you already know the deal there. I don't begrudge Horgan making a living but the clubs should do more to get transfer fee's .... sorry for the rant..... I thought Dundalk were excellent the other night played some lovely football, anyway there is next year....
Very disappointing all around alright. Never been so frustrated watching a game as tonight. Maybe the heat was a factor, but we just couldn't take it up a level like we needed too, but larnaca just didn't give us much space. Had they had a man sent off, and deservedly so, for that tackle on mcormack, maybe it could've been different, but suppose that's just a what if. Could've had a penalty too but shur I wasn't surprised it wasn't given. We just didn't create enough and when you don't do that, you don't deserve to go through. Was disappointing to concede a goal from a deflection on top of the scrappy one in the first leg. A favourable draw awaited in the next round so it's a case of what could've been. Back to the league now, try to adjust to life without seani and Kev.
It was deflected to allow a Larnaca player get the head on it past McNulty I thought rather than a deflected goal. It takes a few games at a good level in Europe to pick up the saavy and sometime ruthless nature of the game. Sportsmanship is nn existant and Rosenborg not giving the ball back first leg after it was put out to allow the player receive attention is a small example. The big ones are that you switch off at all ye get punished, and not being clinical when chances do come your way. Cork will gain plenty from tonight as there is no doubts that they are better than the result. A bit predictible with an over reliance on Maguire maybe. One of the facets of Dundalk's run last year was that there were potential goals from defenders at set pieces through midfield and top CL scorer McMillan. EL level is really where LoI is at and shoud be progressing. If Kenny is at Dundalk next season and a more settled team then, hopefully strengthened in areas, seeded also, if we dont progress a couple of rounds minimum then all we really can hope for is the odd run for LoI clubs if the draw is kind rather than a true step up by the league. Bray in the EL next season is possible with a cull of costs in the close season, Derry or Rovers will have improved, sepecially Rovers if their 'youth' project stays on the road under Bradley hmmm. Derry couldnt get a worse draw again surely. Cup winners if not from the top 3 could be a hit or miss depending. I think if 4 wins and a draw between both competitions is a disappointing European campaign for the leagues representatives is seen as a poor year then we have come on a bit.
Rovers' youth project is going OK. We were done by, as you say, lack of experience today. The Czechs were nothing great but they were able to push and pull us out of position fairly easily as, Cork and Dundalk aside, we don't really face teams of that standard. I suspect Cork would have struggled against the team we played too but Dundalk could have beaten them comfortably.
Jeez, prepare yourself for an apoplectic reaction from LeesidersQuote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
He's entitled to his opinion. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezeikial
So europe was a bonus for caufield but yet he wants to win so they go again in the champions league :rolleyes:
Cork were toothless. Larnaca are no great shakes and would do well to stay lower champipnship and not get relegated. Its like Cork didnt click. And maguire had two full legs to do something and did feck all to be fair. I hope his service is better in the championship cos if not he will struggle.
You feel with dundalk that the players and kenny have learned and used their experience playing better sides in europe. They can compete with them. You cant say the same with cork.
Real ale btw that last statement of yours pretty much covered all angles in response to my post :)
For all the resource discrepancy and Dundalk's physical endurance being stretched beyond limits, along with key injuries during the game, 3 things could easily have happened at the end of that tie, gone to penalties, Dundalk win it or Rosenborg grab a late winner.
Dundalk are good example of an organised team with an intelligent game plan which can put it up to better teams in europe and turn the winning of the game into a genuine 50/50 situation.
Strange enough maybe, but that alleged scouting report of their goalie came to pass in the 2nd game.
I didn't see any of the Rovers v Mlada games, I'll take Charlie's word for it as it fits what I saw of Mlada before.
In all likelihood Cork will not be seeded in the CL next year. The stakes have been raised in the european competitions due to the prize money, it's going to get tougher to make progress.
Really. I said it at the start of this thread that when Cork came up against a half decent European team that knows how to control possession that they would struggle. They bowl teams over in the LOI. That will only get you so far in Europe where more finesse is required.Quote:
Originally Posted by oriel
This is the reason why the PFAI think that Brexit could transform the LOI. If/When Brexit happens it's likely LOI players won't be able to freely travel to English clubs as they can now. They'll have to satisfy certain visa criteria, like have played a certain amount of senior international games etc, so the talent drain that we've had for decades could stop overnight. Imagine that!!Quote:
Originally Posted by oldskool
Cue big JD getting brown envelopes from English clubs to persuade the international manager to give player X a few handy caps to meet the criteria :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Philosophizer
I don't think it was 50/50 though, as the game progressed it looked more and more like Rosenborg would score - which they did. And even then you get the feeling had it gone to penalties they would also have won. I agree overall with the 50/50 but its a lot more than just down to organisation and intelligent game plan.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Compare and contrast corks two legs and Dundalks two legs. Dundalk can control the ball they can hold onto possession and pass it about well, they can play the triangular passes, the faint run and the quick pass and go as effectively as European sides - Cork cant. It's hard to pin down exactly what was wrong with Corks displays but toothless was the best I put it at, for all the endeavour and ball playing they never looked like scoring or creating clear cut chances. Its not just finesse, or structure, but no real idea of what they should do. Perhaps caufields gameplan or even scenarios weren't well thought out. Dundalks free kick in the 2nd half proved they had worked on certain things in training, nothing from Cork to suggest the same. I don't want to keep harping back but that's down to good coaching and management as well. I sometimes get the feeling I'm watching a junior b coach when I see Caufield on the sideline.
I think a bit of perspective is needed here. There seems to be the assumption that Rosenborg are a much much better team than Larnaca but the facts don't bear that out. Rosenborg has won the Eliteserien four times in the last ten years so it's safe to say that the Norwegian league is no longer like the SPL. The other teams have seemingly caught up with Rosenborg and it's a more level playing field.
One of those four titles led to Rosenborg dropping into the ELQ4 stage in 2011 after losing to the Czech champions. Coincidentally they met AEK Larnaca. Larnaca drew 0-0 in Trondheim and beat Rosenborg 2-1 at home to make the group stages. Even more coincidentally, Larnaca beat Mlada Boreslav 5-2 on aggregate in the previous round.
In the five seasons since that Cypriot teams have outperformed Norwegian teams in Europe, despite the qualifiers being in their pre-season. So the evidence suggests that a little more respect is due for the Cypriot league as a whole.
I'm not knocking Dundalk's efforts by belittling Rosenborg btw. Rosenborg has a much better club coefficient than AEK but AEK has only played in Europe in three of the last five years and their Europa league run was six years ago. If you rank the top three Cypriot teams against the top three Norwegian teams then the Cypriots come out on top in each case. Incidentally, going by club coefficients Rosenborg isn't even the best Norwegian team, coming in at 154 against Molde's 102. Individual club rankings only tell so much however, the league rankings is arguably a better indicator of how hard a tie is going to be.
As for the City games the switching of the ties played a big part imo. AEK played very deep and pressed effectively. They played for an away draw but got an away win. Because of that, they had no incentive to change the way they played in the second leg. City had all of the work to do.
Playing deep and pressing well forced City to go wide as there was no space going forward. Lumping crosses into Maguire isn't going to work so City had to try to thread passes to him from wide or go direct to Buckley with the hope that Seani could profit from the second ball. Set pieces were always going to be hugely important in that type of game and City came up short here, but we lacked a bit of height here compared to the Larnaca players. Larnaca dictated the way the game was played with their tactics and their players were very good technically. The heat and humidity in the second leg negated any fitness advantage, Delaney looked like he was going to collapse by the end. McCormack put in two good shifts but he's not a CB and I'd argue that Beattie is not a natural RB either so there were two converted midfielders in defense. McCormack and I think Beattie played Florian onside for last night's goal. Bennett and Dunleavy may have been quicker to step up.
AEK had better technical skills and were better disciplined at keeping to the tactical plan, but you'd expect that from their experience. Our squad is younger, has no senior international experience and plays in a technically inferior league. Still it was relatively close run. Maguire had two good shouts for a penalty. AEK should have a player sent off as well.
The problem with the Irish clubs this season is that we're lower seeded clubs playing as unseeded. Barring Derry, all clubs were not far off the best of supposedly superior leagues. If Levadia Tallinn can get seeded then there's no reason why our clubs can't, but it may take a few years yet. It will be interesting to see how Dundalk fare as a seeded team in the EL qualifiers next year.
Except that that doesn't take into account the Common Travel Area agreement which precedes and still runs in tandem with current EU laws. EU players cannot move outside of EU/EFTA countries before the age of 18. Irish citizens may leave the family home at age 16 with the consent of their parents and Irish citizens are free to travel to the UK and seek employment as part of CTA. After Brexit which takes precedence? Who will adjudicate? The UK is adamant that the ECJ will not get involved. Will the CTA remain as part of a negotiated settlement? Will Ireland be the only country in the EU where players can go to the UK before the age of 18?Quote:
Originally Posted by Philosophizer
It's way to early in the negotiations to be complacent imo. There's a small but increasingly likely chance that Brexit won't happen at all. It's way to early to be making predictions.
Dundalk are very much the Toblerone when it comes to the League of Ireland in European football, City are still the Minstrels.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
You clearly didn't watch our game in any great detail then. Our first two corners were moves from the training pitch. That's just off the top of my head.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
I agree with most of that but we are supposed to be a 15-18 point better team than Dundalk this season - we in no way played to our potential last week and the team and manager are getting a bit of stick for that and probably rightfully so - we should have done better than what we did.Quote:
Originally Posted by derm