Martin Jol is a bit of a chancer, the Dutch Harry Redknapp.Quote:
Originally Posted by back of the net
Printable View
Martin Jol is a bit of a chancer, the Dutch Harry Redknapp.Quote:
Originally Posted by back of the net
I disagree totally with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungle
Thought 'washed-up' Dutchmen were flavour of the month...no?Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
Fair enough. I guess we will never know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
I would say that the signings of Henchoz, Hyppia, Finnan and Hamann were all very good and astute. The Liverpool defence was probably the best in the league at the time. Things were moving in the right direction. Liverpool came quite close to winning the league in 2002 and that was when the Gunners had a great side.
Having said that he did spunk money on a load of fairly ****e players after the world cup in 2002.
Anyhow, I wouldn't go near him right now.
He had to retire from mangt. for health reasons two years ago...Quote:
Originally Posted by IsMiseSean
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%A9rard_Houllier
Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
A bit extreme surely!
What makes u think this?
Extreme? Redknapp is a good manager with a very good record.Quote:
Originally Posted by back of the net
It's not an insult towards Jol to be compared with him, though Jol has a wider variety of experience.
I was referring to Jol been called a chancer by brine , nothing to do with RedknappQuote:
Originally Posted by geysir
In itself, brine calling some manager a chancer is utterly meaningless.Quote:
Originally Posted by back of the net
Saw him from afar at Red Bull Arena in New Jersey a few weeks ago. He's the head guy for Red Bull's teams.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Don't know why people are so narky to each other on here, I thought we were all following the same international team!
What's makes you say Jol is a chancer?
Whoever next manager is lets hope he doesn't become an ITV/BBC sofa sitter like Strachan and Coleman - I'd outlaw punditry while Ireland manager as it cheapens role IMO
Only speaking for myself but i was not been narky...i like martin jol, think he is a good manager, a good coach and a good man manager and i think he wud be good for ireland but thats just my opinion...you called him a chancer...this is a forum .,,,you made a comment .....so i am responding and asking...why is he a chancer?Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
Because some might think he is rubbish?
thats not answering the question...Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
No bother, it wasn't your comment I was annoyed at.Quote:
Originally Posted by back of the net
I follow Ajax and I remember when Jol was manager. He was very much a "wheeler dealer" type manager who would bring in loads of random players based on past reputation, most of whom didn't work out. Tactically he wasn't very strong either.
He's one of those managers who always does very well in the beginning, and by the second or third season things start to go bad.
Did you follow Ajax when Jol was manager? He had an incredible Ajax team, scored 100+ goals in the league, dropped one point at home all season (conceded 4 goals in total at home) and won his last 14 games in a row. He was very unlucky to be beaten in the league by a point after that record. He did manage to win the Dutch cup.Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
As for his transfers, he brought in a fair amount of players when he arrived (8), but only four of them were purchases. Of those four, Pantelic scored 16 goals in 25 games and de Zeeuw played almost every league game and scored 7 goals from midfield. One of the other purchases was a back up GK who only featured a couple of times and Atouba who Jol had used at Tottenham, but ended up being injury plagued at Ajax and only played once (but surely would have featured more if he wasn't injured all the time). I wouldn't worry too much about his transfer record anyway as it wouldn't be a factor in international football.
I think he would be a decent enough manager for Ireland. I think anyone with top level experience as well as a couple of trophies under their belt would be a massive coup for Ireland's football team. The position is extremely well paid and I think we actually have a squad that's good enough to compete with the second tier of European football despite recent results, so hopefully we could attract a manager like Jol or O'Neill.
I wanted Jol and Hodgson considered for the job last time around. I think Jol's reputation has fallen since he returned to Fulham but I think that by and large he "gets it" as to how to approach the modern game. I think it's been a while since we've had a manager who has had that attribute.
I think Hodgson was probably a near-miss, but who knows?
His tactic was give the ball to Luis Suarez. Most people here know how good a player Luis Suarez is, so imagine how he took the mickey out of Eredivisie defences. I think another manager would have done fairly well. At Fulham his tactic has been to give the ball to Berbatov. It's effective, but the Jol is no tactical genius and he has no Plan B. His Ajax hardly functioned without Luis Suarez.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serb
Martin Jol went against Ajax policy to sign six players by himself, without the Ajax scouts ever having looked at them. Those players were:
Atouba
Kerlon
Mido
Pantelic
Tainio
Hyun-jun Suk
They made something like 35 appearances for Ajax between them. 25 were by Pantelic.
Sure, international managers don't have to sign players, but they have to judge a player's quality and if they'll be any good for the international team. So I'd be very worried about a manager who signs a load of duds, because it's an indication of bad judgement.
Jol takes over clubs with money and plods along before getting sacked after two or three years. But people are impressed by him because he's managed some big name clubs. But what exactly has he ever achieved? He's Harry Redknapp.
Co Adriaanse, on the other hand, took Willem II to their highest league finish in the entire history of the club, and brought them to the Champions League/European Cup, for the first and only time in the entire history of the club. He led AZ Alkmaar to their second most successful European campaign in the entire history of the club. These are massive achievements. He was in charge of the Ajax youth setup in the early 1990s, and reorganised and modernised the whole thing. This is something he could also help do in Ireland - to look at the big picture, together with Ruud Dokter.
We have to look beyond Premier League managers and other big names like Trapattoni.
No Dutchmen. Full stop.
Look what happened the last time they interfered in Ireland...
;)
Redknapp is a good manager by EPL standards.Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
Jol resigned from Ajax and had good seasons with Spurs before he got the boot. His last full season was probably their best ever season in their modern history. I supposed he chanced upon that with lucky result after lucky result. Where do you get the idea that Fulham is a money club? This is Jol's 3rd season there and the club has sold more than it has bought, to the tune of £4m. Less of the biased, one sided, chancer type assesments please :)
Co Adriaanse is interesting but he could be a washed up chancer like Rikjard, who knows? He rarely lasts a year with each recent contract, some psychological problems perhaps?Quote:
Co Adriaanse, on the other hand, took Willem II to their highest league finish in the entire history of the club, and brought them to the Champions League/European Cup, for the first and only time in the entire history of the club. He led AZ Alkmaar to their second most successful European campaign in the entire history of the club. These are massive achievements. He was in charge of the Ajax youth setup in the early 1990s, and reorganised and modernised the whole thing. This is something he could also help do in Ireland - to look at the big picture, together with Ruud Dokter.<br>
<br>
We have to look beyond Premier League managers and other big names like Trapattoni
Apparently it's going to be MO'N, after he gets sacked by Fulham in March....
Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
Did Co Adriaanse not lose the players and staffs confidence in him during his time at AZ through over experimentation though which led to his sacking? Same issue at Ajax I believe which led him to be fired - known for making controversial stmts to the press about players and staff and his training methods were at times...obscure.
Do we want a manager like that?
I agree with you in that we should be thinking outside the box for the next ireland manager but disagree on your Jol comments...Good Manager, Good Coach, seems to be liked by players and staff and plus has experience of the British and Irish Players mentality through his time at spurs and Fulham.
Co Adriaanse left AZ for a better paying job at Porto. He wasn't sacked. He then won the double at Porto and left after one year.Quote:
Originally Posted by back of the net
He was sacked at Ajax because Ajax is a basket case of a club. In fairness to Jol, that's also why he was sacked at Ajax. If you get on the wrong side of Johan Cruijff, for whatever reason, you are out the door at Ajax.
Rijkaard is good at managing big stars. That's why he did well at Barca, but got Sparta Rotterdam relegated.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Co Adriaanse is good at managing underachieving clubs and getting the most out of a limited group of players. He does everything on his own terms and likes new experiences, that's why he's been going from club to club. So if we appointed him as manager, it might only be for one campaign, yes. But at least you know he won't stick around when the writing is on the wall, like Jack, Mick and Trap did near the end. Adriaanse knows when it's time.
Adriaanse's achievements in football management dwarf those of Jol. Jol is a more skilled politician, though. He'd know how to sweet talk Delaney in a way that Adriaanse doesn't.
In his 1 year at Hamburg he took them to the semis of the UEFA and German cups - first time they had got that far in either competition since the early 80's it seemsQuote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I've no doubt he'll be applying and he's certainly worth considering. You'd imagine the Dokter will have a decent insight.
Sorry Brine - typo on my part. I meant Twente. Did he not lose the players and staffs confidence there?Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
Was thinking re: Robbie Keane and the fact that he is coming to end of his fantastic career - Jol and him had a fantastic relationship so I believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Thoughts on Jol as manager with Keane as a part of his staff. Robbie would be a useful addition in the sense of giving Jol a deeper insight into irish football at all levels...just a thought i had
I don't think Robbie should get any sidekick gig just because he's been around and gets on with Jol. If we went for a foreign manager I'd sooner give the sidekick / bridge-to-Ireland gig to someone with coaching credentials, Kilbane maybe. In fairness, Noel King probably has all the attributes. I hope his stock rises this month.
Was it not the decision of Beenhaker and not cruyff that ended Co's time at Ajax?Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
Did someone mention Leo:pQuote:
Originally Posted by back of the net
Again the guys with the stats - jeez. All I know is anytime i see a Jol team its tactically all over the place. Would be a terrible appointment for a potential EPL cast off
Cruijff has his fingers in the pie all over the place at Ajax. He's also very good at getting people to do his bidding for him. Cruijff is very accomplished in never taking responsibility for anything but still having a say in everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by back of the net
Ajax is a well known snake pit. They've gone through 9 full-time managers and four caretakers since Van Gaal left in 1997.
The worst was probably when Morten Olsen was sacked six months after winning the double in style. He achieved the highest goal difference and points tally in the history of the club and beat PSV 5-0 in the cup final. Gone six months later.
Hence my earlier post!
http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-29636264.html
http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-29636256.html
....All are back-up options, though, because the real contenders are Irish. Martin O'Neill, the chosen one, has told the FAI – through a third-party – that this is a dream job
For some reason i just can't get excited about Queiroz or Meulensteen.
I don't know much about Meulensteen, other than he was assistant at Old Trafford, but Quieroz wasn't great when he was in charge of Portugal, and lasted less than a year in charge of Real, with a team including Beckham, Zidane, Figo, Raul, etc.
I think it's very unfair on the managers being considered and interviewed for the job that their names etc... are being leaked to the media. Today the word was that Cuper was interviewed during the week and that a call was to be made to Hiddink to canvas his interest... that's just some of it.....
Someone in the FAI needs to keep a lid on things IMO
Hardly a surprise in this day and age though...
:rolleyes:
For very good reason I can't get excited by them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosby87