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Ah yeah, ignore the fact that the Championship has improved immeasurably since Keogh got double digits at that level and ignore Idah getting 2 goals in 18 whilst Keogh got the same in 30 and then throw in a bit of flippant throwaway commentary and sure why wouldn't you prefer Andy Keogh over Adam Idah?.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Adam Idah is a good player who has been impacted by injuries - and he will get better. He is not the type of player who will score a hatful of goals - but he is an important asset for Ireland and any club he plays for. At the moment he is good with his back to the goal, receiving the ball and they laying it off for midfield runners - he does need to develop more of a killer instinct.
He actually reminds me of Frank Stapleton - able to hold the ball up and bring others into the play. Not as strong as Stapleton or as good in the air - but with more pace. He may never be as good as Stapleton - but he needs a couple of good years without injury before we will really see what he is capable of.
Now - there will be competition for places with Ferguson, possibly Armstrong, possibly Connolly, maybe Parrott will come good, Cannon if he finally opts for Ireland, Obafemi, Fraser, O'Neill, TKD, Emakhu, Springett, O'Mahony - but Idah does what many of the others are not able to and he has a role. I think in 3/4 years, if he gets a run without injuries, Idah will be playing consistently in the PL (not for one of the top teams - but he could certainly do a job for a team in the bottom half who are always looking over their shoulder at relegation).
The Championship improving doesn't factor into it. Otherwise you could argue Idah is better than GilesQuote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
My question was "Can you name a less effective player to have gotten so many caps for us?" There may yet be a player in Idah and he's now got a great chance to show it. But he's rarely been anything other than ineffective for Ireland to date unfortunately. It's a long time since that hattrick in the Cup but he still has a lot of the same weaknesses unfortunately
Well - like your comment about the Championship - the number of caps is a bit of a distortion - there are far more international games these days than there were 15/20 years ago - never mind 30/40 years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Anyway I'll give it a go (and I might take a bit of poetic license with the number of caps).
Harry Arter - 19 caps
James Collins - 14 caps
Gary Doherty - 34 caps
Paul Green - 20 caps
Eamon Gregg - 9 caps
Ashley Grimes - 18 caps
Colin Healy - 13 caps
Scott Hogan - 12 caps
Daryl Horgan - 17 caps
Alan Judge - 9 caps
Andy bloody Keogh - 30 caps (why?)
Alan Lee - 10 caps
Kevin Long - 17 caps
Alan Maybury - 10 caps
Jayson Molumby - 20 caps
Daryl Murphy - 31 caps
Alan O'Brien - 5 caps
Darren O'Dea - 20 caps
Darren Potter - 5 caps
Conor Sammon - 9 caps
Sean St. Ledger - 37 caps
Anthony Stokes - 9 caps
Now I am sure you can produce some stats to prove me wrong - but I would take Adam Idah over any of the above - and some others who got more caps who went through significant periods where they were bare noticeable on the pitch (e.g. James McCarthy).
Why are you including players who are not strikers in the comparison?
Red herring. You said you'd Andy Keogh over Adam Idah. Do you stand by it?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I thought he was effective against the Netherlands and France which were the last two games.
The poster has literally quoted exactly what Stu said and the version of the question he posed. I don't see any issues with what the poster has done.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Maybe it could have been assumed Stu was inferring strikers but I don't see the issue with this poster's interpretation.
Not a red herring at all. In absolute terms he's probably a better player than Johnny Giles because football has moved on since the 60s. Does that mean he's a more effective player for us? Course not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
But yes, I'd have Keogh over Idah. Idah wouldn't have been close to the squad ten years ago.
He had feck all to do in Paris - not his fault but hard to say he was effective. He wasn't great v Holland tbh. He had fewer touches (pro-rata) than any other player on the pitch bar two late subs who didn't get a touch at all. He wasted that early chance which showed a real lack of killer instinct. He barely touched the ball the last half hour. That's hardly what I'd call "effective". But it was probably still an improvement on his last two starts when he was rightly hauled off early for being completely ineffective.
I wasn't limiting things to forwards btw so JRG is right to spread the net to other positions. I did reference caps though - specifically as many as Idah has gotten - and that invalidates half his nominees. Otherwise we'd reference Paul Butler and Joey Lapira and close the thread.
St Ledger, Molumby and Doherty are daft nominations though. Doherty was our leading scorer in a campaign (04?) FFS, and with no penalties or goals against tired part-timers either. Sledge was a solid defender in a side that got to the Euros (and he scored there too). Molumby isn't the player we thought he might be at one stage but he's still more effective than Idah in the current setup
(Watch now as I jinx him into a hattrick this afternoon!)
stu said 'less effective player' - not 'less effective striker' - although there are a fair few strikers in the listQuote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Ten years ago, we lost 1-0 away to Austria. We used Conor Salmon in that game. His effectiveness in that game was summed up as followsQuote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Quote:
Conor Sammon: 5
Barely noticeable after coming on as a late replacement for Shane Long.
Ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Quote:
Adam Idah - 8
Hesitated after being gifted a glorious opportunity by the Dutch goalkeeper early on, but took the chance to make up for it from the penalty spot soon after.
Idah caused real problems for the Dutch defence with his running off the ball, although the referee did him no favours by giving some very soft decisions to the visitors. Following on from a decent showing in Paris, this was a quality performance against a top class Dutch back three.
Arguably his best performance in an Ireland shirt. https://www.balls.ie/football/irelan...ds-loss-569979
Quote:
Adam Idah 7 - Scored the early penalty and was a real handful for Van Dijk. Dropped deep to help out in a good performance. https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soc...layer-30908050
Quote:
Adam Idah 7
Nerves of steel to convert his early penalty for his second senior goal and worked tirelessly. Great strength to hold off Van Dijk on several occasions but had less luck in the air.
https://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...611885723.html
Quote:
Adam Idah: Caused Virgil van Dijk a serious headache in the first half with his pace and physicality in the first half, and took his penalty very well, but his influence lessened as Ireland wilted after the break. 7
Decent chance for him just now, ball crossed from the left, finds him unmarked in the middle but on the stretch, gets a toe to it but can’t direct it and the keeper parries away to safety. First thing of note from him in this game. Might have been his first touch in this half.
Lovely goal for Idah!
Nice strike from just inside the right hand side of the box to the far corner. Very nice, very composed.
Delighted for him.
Goal number two for him. Penalty. Carbon copy of his penalty against the Dutch.
!Take that Pineapple! He says (probably)
What can I say - I called the jinx! He's welcome :)
Anonymous up till then as you say, and keeper will be disappointed with the opener. But well done; certainly what he needs to do while the others are out injured.
The problem for Idah now is that Norwich look a poor team - an a team that is getting worse. I'm surprised because they haven't lost a huge number of players and Wagner should be a decent manager. I suspect stuff about Smith selling the club might be having an impact all around.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
No goals or assists in seven games now for Idah. Dropped to the bench for today; Hwang started instead and scored, but Norwich still lost 3-1.
Their form has collapsed since Sargeant got injured after four games (and Barnes followed three games later). 13 goals and 10 points from the first four games; 12 goals and 7 points from the next ten games. Obviously that's not all on Idah, but safe to say he hasn't made a great case for him to keep his place when Sergeant/Barnes come back unfortunately. And Wagner the manager has to be under a bit of pressure too; Norwich finished last year badly too (one win in ten), and he's only been there since Jan.
Think their problems are actually more at the back. Duffy has been poor by all accounts. Think he's done at an anyway decent level unfortunately (Duffy, not Idah - though I have limited expectations for Idah too).
Worst defence in the league, so certainly hard to argue against that point. Duffy - from browsing the Norwich forum - I think seems to do ok and then go missing at a crucial time about once a game (see this thread for example).
Which ultimately is one way of looking poor at that level.
Damning enough to not return in seven games after getting the run I was hoping he would. He has time when the sporadic goals and good performances being to yield less hope he really will lose relevance. I have hope.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
He has the makings of a decent player with potential for a good output. But it’s a question of FIT. Truth is he doesn’t merit a tactical team change to suit his strength alone.
He’d benefit from a move. Being targeted by a manager with a specific style in mind for the team and a role in that team for a player of his attributes. Then slotting in to do that job.
Rather than being inherited by and trying to adapt to successive managers.