Estonia V Ireland - Friday, 11th November 2011 - Euro 2012 Play Off 1st Leg

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Originally Posted by ifk101

Brian Kerr is of the opinion that if we get physical and stop Estonia having time on the ball, Ireland will progress. Indeed he believes Ireland should be far too good for Estonia. And in fairness to Brian Kerr, his Faroe Islands side did beat Estonia at home and were unlucky not to win both games against Estonia so he does know what he is talking about.

Then again Ireland is known for sitting back and letting the opposition have the ball under Trapattoni's leadership. We're also extremely weak when the opposition play three in the middle. If I was you I'd be dancing on the street non-stop at the prospect of meeting us.

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Originally Posted by French Toasht

Really? In Traps 22 competitive games, we have only been beaten twice and on both occasions, we were beaten by a single goal. If Estonia are to qualify they will have to do something only France and Russia have managed to do and beat us. That's not exactly a prospect I'd be "dancing in the street" about.

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Brian Kerr is absolutely correct! That is how you stop Estonia: stop having their time on the ball. I'm not sure about that being physical part though - we're not spanish, we're used to that stuff. Moreover, we're good at it. If Irish go physical, it won't go unanswered. Then it'll just be a physical match. I think Ireland needs to concentrate more on attacking and controlling the ball itself, not on physical defense. We're not a good defensive team, we have conceded in every single game in the qualifiers. Just attack fiercely and we're done! Yet again, Ireland is not that kind of team who could generate immense offensive pressure (like portugal and croatia could for example) throughout the game.

In my opinion, Ireland's play on the pitch has not been as convincing as is it's record under Trap. Am I right? Plus, we don't need a win - a draw could do it. We also have the luxurious privilege of being the underdogs (which the Faroes had agains us as well). You say you won't, but SURELY you will underestimate us a little bit, if not more... :)

PS! Fench Toast, my answer to you about the line-ups was approved by the moderator and lies on the forum page 23. Since I'm a Draconian and all...

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Originally Posted by tricky_colour

Yes sorry about that it was just supposed to a humorous comment as the thread seemed to gone so far off topic it had became a thread about mini-buses!!
So it was not really directed at you rather the other people reading the thread, and at least one person 'got it' (according the thanks thing) but you were probably not alone at missing the irony.

I just thought it must have been strange for you to come to a thread about the build up to the game and find us all talking about mini-buses, I could imagine you thinking, "those Irish are a strange bunch with all this mini-bus talk!"

Any how I see you did manage to get a 'mini-bus' joke into your post so well done on that!!

It was one of the better ones I must say!!

I think we might need to park something a bit bigger than a mini bus though.

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No swet, dude! Glad you enjoyed the humour. No prejudices agains Irish. I'm having a craic with Irishmen. http://foot.ie/images/icons/icon6.png

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Haha... penalty discussion. Come on, lads - it's Estonia you're playing. http://foot.ie/images/icons/icon12.png

I think if it goes to penalties we will win it. Penalty shootouts are more about mental strength than technique or anything else. Thats one skill our boys do have. I would imagine the Estonians might buckle under the pressure of knowing they are on the verge of a first ever championship in their countries history. That on top of the fact that they will be taking penalties in front of a very partisan Landsdowne Road would make me very confident.

That said this tie really should not be going anywhere near penalties and will hopefully be decided long before that.

Duffer's never taken one for us , even though he's got a good shot on him. I don't think he's ever taken a free from in front of the goals either . Great dead ball from the flanks though. He played very well on Sunday and was subbed on about 70 mins, so he should be fresh.

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Originally Posted by French Toasht

That said this tie really should not be going anywhere near penalties and will hopefully be decided long before that.

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I'd agree with this. Estonia seem very similar to Armenia - small country suddenly hits a purple patch, plays some great exciting stuff but gets completely nullified by Trap. Might even go as far as to predict the same 3-1 aggregate score.

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Originally Posted by French Toasht

I think if it goes to penalties we will win it. Penalty shootouts are more about mental strength than technique or anything else. Thats one skill our boys do have. I would imagine the Estonians might buckle under the pressure of knowing they are on the verge of a first ever championship in their countries history. That on top of the fact that they will be taking penalties in front of a very partisan Landsdowne Road would make me very confident.

That said this tie really should not be going anywhere near penalties and will hopefully be decided long before that.

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I thanked your post in spite of the first line - I wouldn't be as confident about our mental strength!

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Originally Posted by French Toasht

That said this tie really should not be going anywhere near penalties and will hopefully be decided long before that.

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As long as it's decided in our favor :)
I'm satisfied that Trap answers the press questions about penalties as a matter of fact and doesn't try to bury the question as if penalties (if it comes to that) are something to be feared and not up for discussion.

Randolph! Ciaran Kelly was the obvious choice. Trap out.!

Penalties....... possibilities depending who's on the pitch at the time

Keane Walters Andrews Ward Gibson Doyle

Prediction 1 1 in Estonia...................2 1 Ireland in dublin

If I was Trap, I would be showing a video of the second leg of the France playoff as all the inspiration the players need. Not alone the fact that it was the most inspirational display of football our lads have shown in years, the sheer will to prevent the feeling of devastation when the final whistle went in Paris would be motivation enough for the players.

We lost that game. That dvd should be burnt.
Trap would only be endorsing the sense of inevitable failure, inferiority complex and victimhood, should he focus on that game as an example of what we should be doing in Tallinn.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Your most technical players should take your penalties. That means Keane, Duff, McGeady, Walters, Cox if he's on the pitch. I'd imagine Dunne would take one too, maybe Whelan.

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I've always been a fan of the Full Backs penalty, if you know what i mean. Like Irwin. The happy medium of power and precision.

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Originally Posted by geysir

We lost that game. That dvd should be burnt.
Trap would only be endorsing the sense of inevitable failure, inferiority complex and victimhood, should he focus on that game as an example of what we should be doing in Tallinn.

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Its interesting, the All Blacks always say that it is a fear of losing that motivates them more than anything. Having a fear is a good thing, as long as there is determination to ensure the feared outcome does not transpire.

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Originally Posted by dr_peepee

I've always been a fan of the Full Backs penalty, if you know what i mean. Like Irwin. The happy medium of power and precision.

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I'd go along with that and advocate Finnan's effort in the shootout against Spain as an example of how they should be taken.

Dmitri Kruglov is the Estonian Rory Delap. He's the long throw specialist who they use to good effect, and get the big centre backs like Piiroja up front and Ahjupera is a lanky forward as well.

Toolik would I be right in saying the Estonian's would be mostly worried about Duff and McGeady? It was clear the Armenians were concerned about those two and in fact doubled up on them every time they had the ball.

Is there any mods who can take Toolik out of pre moderation? Considering we have an insider on board, who's quite clearly not on the wind up, its kind of inhibiting discussion if his posts only go up long after they were originally posted.

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Originally Posted by French Toasht

Its interesting, the All Blacks always say that it is a fear of losing that motivates them more than anything. Having a fear is a good thing, as long as there is determination to ensure the feared outcome does not transpire.

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In order for that analogy to work for us, would we not need a compliant ref in order to overcome the fear of losing?

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Originally Posted by ifk101

Brian Kerr is of the opinion that if we get physical and stop Estonia having time on the ball, Ireland will progress. Indeed he believes Ireland should be far too good for Estonia. And in fairness to Brian Kerr, his Faroe Islands side did beat Estonia at home and were unlucky not to win both games against Estonia so he does know what he is talking about.

Then again Ireland is known for sitting back and letting the opposition have the ball under Trapattoni's leadership. We're also extremely weak when the opposition play three in the middle. If I was you I'd be dancing on the street non-stop at the prospect of meeting us.

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The faroes results certainly would be encouraging however, it was at the end of the campaign that they really got the results that make you sit up and notice, beating Serbia away in particular.

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Originally Posted by elroy

The faroes results certainly would be encouraging however, it was at the end of the campaign that they really got the results that make you sit up and notice, beating Serbia away in particular.

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They beat Serbia away at the start of the campaign ie October 2010. It was the same weak as Serbia had been reprimanded for their fans behaviour in Italy. So in fairness, they did catch Serbia at a low moment.

In 2011, they lost 6 games in a row (admittedly a few were friendlies) but that is a striking statistic all the same. Respect them, but lets not talk about them as world beaters either.

Sorry meant Slovenia not Serbia.

But definitely agree with your overall analysis, respect but not too much. I think we should go for a score draw at least in the first leg. At home they don't appear to be exactly formidable.

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Originally Posted by geysir

In order for that analogy to work for us, would we not need a compliant ref in order to overcome the fear of losing?

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No I wasn't referring to anything regarding the handball incident, but to be motivated by the will to avoid the heart break of falling at the final hurdle, ie Paris, Turkey etc. The All Blacks players stated that they were motivated by the fear of losing, ie fear of not winning a world cup on home soil, the fear of being the first All Black team to lose to an Irish side.

Looking at the images of dejected Irish players at the final whistle in previous playoffs, ie Paris, Bursa, Brussels and Anfield, can be hugely motivational for players and ensure a desire not to end up in a similar situation again.

It doesn't surprise me that Duff isn't good at penalties. He's not a crisp ball striker, he tends to float balls in rather than drill them. He's a placer rather than a pacer, and given his one-on-one record I don't think he's that confident in front of goal.

Being the football geek that I am I actually watch players' ball striking abilities.

Robbie clearly has the knack.
Andrews is a good ball striker - but then so was Matt Holland.
So too is Walters.
I'd trust Whelan.
Dunne is a mean ball striker.
Given is a good ball striker, and mentally strong.
I'd say Fahey is a good penno taker.
Likewise Cox.

Who'd I be nervous about, as well as Duff?

Despite having taken pennos at club level I'd have concerns about McGeady & Doyle. Doyle has missed a few for Wolves and Reading. Ward strikes a ball well but I'm not sure about his mentality. He strikes me as one of those guys who'd call a coin toss wrong 8 times out of 10.

St. Ledger - I think he'd roll the sleeves up, run up confidently and then it's anyone's guess. Likewise Kelly.

I'm also a fan of full backs and pennos. Anyone remember Ray Stewart? Steve Finnan in Suwon. Irwin. Harte.