Trapattoni - who would you replace him with?

http://www.thesquareball.net/2013/09...land-position/

Brian McDermott has today ruled himself out of the Ireland manager’s position, which was vacated on the back of Trapattoni’s departure. McDermott was a favourite at the bookies and mentioned specifically by the FAI’s John Delaney, but he moved today to quash rumours that he could be set to leave Leeds, referring to himself as “100% committed” to the task ahead at Elland Road.
Having been embraced wholeheartedly by Leeds fans since taking over in April, McDermott says he feels as though he has been “adopted here at Leeds” and that he owes “these supporters” for that. Whilst McDermott would clearly love to manage Ireland, he says that “the Ireland job is in the future”.

Referring back to Leeds, McDermott set his eyes on what needed to be done, saying that in the past there has been too many quick fixes and a significant lack of stability. McDermott clarified that he sought assurances from Acting CEO Paul Hunt and MD David Haigh after Ireland’s interests became clear, and it can be seen as nothing but a positive that he came away from those talks with the confidence to move forward.

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Originally Posted by Junior

http://www.thesquareball.net/2013/09...land-position/

Brian McDermott has today ruled himself out of the Ireland manager’s position, which was vacated on the back of Trapattoni’s departure. McDermott was a favourite at the bookies and mentioned specifically by the FAI’s John Delaney, but he moved today to quash rumours that he could be set to leave Leeds, referring to himself as “100% committed” to the task ahead at Elland Road.
Having been embraced wholeheartedly by Leeds fans since taking over in April, McDermott says he feels as though he has been “adopted here at Leeds” and that he owes “these supporters” for that. Whilst McDermott would clearly love to manage Ireland, he says that “the Ireland job is in the future”.

Referring back to Leeds, McDermott set his eyes on what needed to be done, saying that in the past there has been too many quick fixes and a significant lack of stability. McDermott clarified that he sought assurances from Acting CEO Paul Hunt and MD David Haigh after Ireland’s interests became clear, and it can be seen as nothing but a positive that he came away from those talks with the confidence to move forward.

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I would imagine that what he was really thinking to himself when he uttered those words was 'The Ireland job is in the future... When they have better players and the public more realistic expectations'. But we'll never know.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

I would imagine that what he was really thinking to himself when he uttered those words was 'The Ireland job is in the future... When they have better players and the public more realistic expectations'. But we'll never know.

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could be waiting so...

How has mypost taken the news? Not seen him on here for a while.

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Originally Posted by Yard of Pace

Ashley Cole appears to be one of the worst human beings in the entire world but no fans of his club or his country have a problem with him lining out for them. Because he's a great player.

Gibson fell out with Trap. He seems like a bit of an eejit. But he's a very good player and I'd have no problem with him playing for us again. Unless he starts nicking handbags off old ladies in Portmarnock or bullying the younger members of the squad for their lunch-money, or something.

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Likewise I'd ultimately have Gibson back because he has quality.

However Cole is a world class left-back who appears to be a brilliant professional but a horrid person. Gibson is a decent midfielder who lacked class and professionalism when he decided to pick and choose when he plays for his country.

I don't actually care what type of human Gibson is, I care about his commitment and volatility when he doesn't get his way. Particularly when you consider Gibson would have a fraction of the caps (and been far less likely of a decent move) if it wasn't for manager the threw a strop at.

hughton also rules himself out...

"Leeds manager Brian McDermott and Norwich City boss Chris Hughton have ruled themselves out of the running for the vacant Republic of Ireland manager's job.

McDermott and Hughton revealed at pre-match press conferences for their clubs today that they wish to remain with their respective sides.

Hughton said: "I'm Norwich City manager, the fans and the board have been incredibly supportive to me and I'm very happy here"

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Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

Likewise I'd ultimately have Gibson back because he has quality.

However Cole is a world class left-back who appears to be a brilliant professional but a horrid person. Gibson is a decent midfielder who lacked class and professionalism when he decided to pick and choose when he plays for his country.

I don't actually care what type of human Gibson is, I care about his commitment and volatility when he doesn't get his way. Particularly when you consider Gibson would have a fraction of the caps (and been far less likely of a decent move) if it wasn't for manager the threw a strop at.

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Going on Ashley Cole's own tale of nearly crashing his car upon hearing that Arsenal were "taking the **** out of him" by offering him 5k less a week than he wanted, I'd be interested to see his reaction if he spent a tournament watching patently inferior left-backs play for his country while spending the entire time as an un-used substitute.

I'm prepared to cut Gibson some slack. He seems like a winner. I'd rather him than some useless plodder who got ideas above his station and would lick Trap's hole at any opportunity just because he was getting his game. Like Glenn Whelan. :D

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Originally Posted by Yard of Pace

I'm prepared to cut Gibson some slack. He seems like a winner. I'd rather him than some useless plodder who got ideas above his station and would lick Trap's hole at any opportunity just because he was getting his game. Like Glenn Whelan. :D

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what has gibson ever done in an Ireland shirt (or everton or man utd for that matter) that suggests he is a "winner"?
lazy, soft, moody and disinterested are words that are probably more appropriate.

what has glenn whelan ever said or done that would suggest he "got above his station"?

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Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

Likewise I'd ultimately have Gibson back because he has quality.

However Cole is a world class left-back who appears to be a brilliant professional but a horrid person. Gibson is a decent midfielder who lacked class and professionalism when he decided to pick and choose when he plays for his country.

I don't actually care what type of human Gibson is, I care about his commitment and volatility when he doesn't get his way. Particularly when you consider Gibson would have a fraction of the caps (and been far less likely of a decent move) if it wasn't for manager the threw a strop at.

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Could your assessment of this situation be any more one-sided? There are two sides to every story. Gibson hasn't exactly gained much from exiling himself. Makes you think he might have strong reasons to do so, no?

Also plenty of players pick and choose when they play for their country. Injury requirements by clubs, early retirement etc. All of which could be easily seen as being more unprofessional than refusing to play for a manager who you have an acrimonious relationship with.

You also give Trap way too much credit. I'm sure Gibson would have gained plenty of caps under a different manager. He was already in the squad pre-trap, he was a young Man Utd player and there were very few viable CM options available. You then give Trap credit for Gibson's move as well. Going by the average person's comments here, if anything his international appearances would have hindered any move due to him being such a poor player and failing to do anything in a green shirt. He got his move because he's a good player and the current and former Man Utd managers both agree with this sentiment. His 8 starts for Trap over 5 years had little to with it.

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

what has glenn whelan ever said or done that would suggest he "got above his station"?

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He said a few things over the years after Trap compared him to Gattuso at the beginning of his reign.

I really don't like Glenn Whelan, so don't mind me.

As for Gibson....
http://ballsdot.wpengine.netdna-cdn..../12/gibson.gif

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Originally Posted by Irwin3

Could your assessment of this situation be any more one-sided? There are two sides to every story. Gibson hasn't exactly gained much from exiling himself. Makes you think he might have strong reasons to do so, no?

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I'm sure he considers them good reasons. I just take a dim view on taking yourself out of consideration.

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Originally Posted by Irwin3

Also plenty of players pick and choose when they play for their country. Injury requirements by clubs, early retirement etc. All of which could be easily seen as being more unprofessional than refusing to play for a manager who you have an acrimonious relationship with.

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Not an argument I buy at all. Disingenuous injuries are poor form, early retirement depends on context - but let's not get into non-specific whataboutery. I happen to think it extremely unprofessional for a player to repeatedly refuse to play for a manager who he played under for a number of years, whether because of a falling out or because the manager didn't pick him at a tournament.

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Originally Posted by Irwin3

You also give Trap way too much credit. I'm sure Gibson would have gained plenty of caps under a different manager. He was already in the squad pre-trap, he was a young Man Utd player and there were very few viable CM options available. You then give Trap credit for Gibson's move as well. Going by the average person's comments here, if anything his international appearances would have hindered any move due to him being such a poor player and failing to do anything in a green shirt. He got his move because he's a good player and the current and former Man Utd managers both agree with this sentiment. His 8 starts for Trap over 5 years had little to with it.

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What might and might not have happened doesn't concern me, but it's laughable to suggest his international career had no bearing on his move. Ferguson can agree with the sentiment all he wants - he played him only occasionally, and rarely in his final season or so at OT.

Meanwhile Trap made him a fixture of an international squad, and the de-facto third choice midfielder for most of his tenure up until the Euros. This despite Gibson's continued selection being held up by a section of support/media as an example of Trap's muppetry.

Another manager may have started him every Ireland match, but another might've discarded him completely. Gibson's a good player, but his position even in the squad was under scrutiny from day one because he barely got a game with his club and split the crowd when in a green shirt.

Moyes might have taken an interest, might have signed him. But Gibson was a punt, albeit cheap, and Moyes has a hard-won reputation for thriftyness. I really can't see him signing a player just because he's buddies with the guy's manager, particularly when that manager doesn't even play him and is willing to let him go easy.

Moyes had to weigh it up carefully - you really don't think the consistent seal-of-approval from an international manager didn't feed into that?

As for being one-sided, it's not that I haven't considered what Gibson's side could be - I just find it really weak sauce for prolonged self-exile. If it turns out Trap called him a chubby nordie turncoat, I might reconsider but, even then, I find self-exile really, really infuriating.

So remaining realistic candidates:


O'Neill
Pros
- Experienced at top level management.
- Had an excellent managerial record before Sunderland.
- Available straight away.
Cons
- Generally his teams play negative football which has been one of the main criticisms of Trappatoni.
- Perhaps his best years are behind him.
- Not a former player so perhaps won't have the same affinity for the setup, fans and players as some of the other candidates.

McCarthy
Pros
- Already an experienced International manager.
- Has a great affinity with the team and fans.
- Apparently has a release clause in his contract which allows him to take the job if offered.
- 2002 World Cup perhaps the pinnacle for any Irish team, performance wise.
Cons
- Has a very average managerial record compared to some of the alternatives.
- Besides the 2002 World Cup his almost 7 years in charge were fruitless with considerably better resources than Trappatoni.

O'Leary
Pros
- Has a very decent record at the top level in club management.
- One of our greatest ever players. Who can forget Italia 1990?
- Available immediately and perhaps looking to prove himself after a considerable time in the wilderness.
- His teams play attractive football.
Cons
- Perhaps more likely than most to use the position as a stepping stone to get back into club management.
- His post match interviews are excruciating.
- Hasn't done anything of note as a manager for a number of years.

Keane
Pros
- Arguably our greatest ever player.
- Inspires confidence in all around him.
- His desire to win is legendary. He's not going to take the job just to do the best he can.
Cons
- Likely to fall out with players leaving them in the International wilderness.
- Polarising figure. May create disunity within the team and amongst the fans.
- His management record is fairly poor.

Coyle
Pros
- His teams play attractive football.
- He has a good record of getting the best out of teams with limited resources.
Cons
- His management profile has been on the slide in recent times.
- Has only recently accepted a new job so unlikely to be interested.

You're right it's all about circumstances. Duff, O'Brien, Steven Reid. Retired, withdraws to manage injury but plays for club, retires but available in an emergency. All took themselves out of consideration.

You talk about whataboutery. You might want to look in the mirror, my friend. You are just speculating about things yourself. You, like I, don't know the specifics of what transpired between them.

On one hand you're saying that Gibson was poor for Ireland and that he should be thankful to Trap for picking him. And on the other you're saying that these poor performances helped him get a good move. Doesn't quite add up.

What helped him get a good move is that he's a good player and Ferguson advised Moyes to take him.

EDIT: In reply to Swans monster above.

down to 59th in world rankings

Iceland, wales , cape verde islands , and uzbekistan are all ahead of us
http://www.fifa.com/worldranking/ran...ble/index.html

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Originally Posted by youngirish

Keane
Pros
- Arguably our greatest ever player.
- Inspires confidence in all around him.
- His desire to win is legendary. He's not going to take the job just to do the best he can.
Cons
- Likely to fall out with players leaving them in the International wilderness.
- Polarising figure. May create disunity within the team and amongst the fans.
- His management record is fairly poor.

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Don't disagree with much in your post except the BIB. Roy Keane's desire to win is not legendary. It's a myth. Roy Keane's desire to do what's best for Roy Keane is legendary. Most of the time, that entails winning but sometimes it involves doing things that actually hinder his team's ability to win for selfish reasons.

Two examples:

1. Getting deliberately sent off for assaulting Haaland with a Manchester derby poised at 1-1 to settle an old score.
2. Getting deliberately sent off for elbowing McAteer with a game against Sunderland poised at 1-1 to settle a petty argument.

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Originally Posted by Irwin3

You're right it's all about circumstances. Duff, O'Brien, Steven Reid. Retired, withdraws to manage injury but plays for club, retires but available in an emergency. All took themselves out of consideration.

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You think they were unprofessional? With those who retire early, commitment is usually beyond reproach.

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Originally Posted by Irwin3

You talk about whataboutery. You might want to look in the mirror, my friend. You are just speculating about things yourself. You, like I, don't know the specifics of what transpired between them.

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That isn't what whataboutery means. Anyway I've barely speculated on the details between between Trap and Gibson. What we know is Trap didn't play him at the Euros, Gibson subsequently didn't want to play for Trap. I find that unacceptable, as outlined in several 'monster' posts.

For the circumstances to dramatically change my mind, they'd have to be so sensational they'd likely be widely known amongst players, FAI and media ie Trap called Gibson fat, which is rumoured. I talked about this over in the Gibson thread - there isn't any indication of this was the case beyond innuendo.

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Originally Posted by Irwin3

On one hand you're saying that Gibson was poor for Ireland and that he should be thankful to Trap for picking him. And on the other you're saying that these poor performances helped him get a good move. Doesn't quite add up.

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Where did I say Gibson was poor for Ireland? If you want to check my views on Gibson the player, they're largely in this thread - I've always been a fan.

Where did I say 'these poor performances helped him get a move'? I just didn't, not even close.

What I actually said is there was large number of fans and media who questioned him being a fixture in matchday squads. That's 'fans and media'.

I separately said Gibson helped get his move because Moyes would have factored in the player regularly being included in matchday squads.

Would you say Moyes would listen to fans and media or the actions of an acclaimed manager?

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Originally Posted by Irwin3

What helped him get a good move is that he's a good player and Ferguson advised Moyes to take him.

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That's a reason. But are you saying, categorically, a player's international exploits bears no bearing on getting a transfer?

Best take this to the Gibson thread or PM if you want to actually answer.

- You don't?

- I know what whataboutery means. My use of it is fine. Maybe check the meaning yourself?

- Maybe not yourself saying Gibson was poor but your support/media line who perceived him to be poor, as you then point out yourself. You know what I'm saying.

- A 1% bearing, maybe. It's insignificant, really. Being behind Whelan, Andrews, Green isn't really a ringing endorsement to join the 6/7th best team in the PL. Getting caps for most countries isn't really a bearing on whether a manager deems that they have the ability to play for a top PL side. All they show is roughly your ranking among your fellow countrymen, which in this case isn't such a great endorsement for Gibson.

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Originally Posted by Irwin3

- You don't?

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Generally, no. Duff's gave his all for Ireland. Steven Reid's history of injury makes his retirement understandable. You talking about Andy O'Brien? Not really all that exercised about it to be honest. He certainly didn't decline to come back repeatedly, unlike Gibson.

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Originally Posted by Irwin3

- I know what whataboutery means. My use of it is fine. Maybe check the meaning yourself?

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Really doesn't seem like you do. Feel free to specifically point out where I've engaged in whataboutery in regards to Gibson.

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Originally Posted by Irwin3

- Maybe not yourself saying Gibson was poor but your support/media line who perceived him to be poor, as you then point out yourself. You know what I'm saying.

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I know you've totally misunderstood me, yes.

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Originally Posted by Irwin3

- A 1% bearing, maybe. It's insignificant, really. Being behind Whelan, Andrews, Green isn't really a ringing endorsement to join the 6/7th best team in the PL. Getting caps for most countries isn't really a bearing on whether a manager deems that they have the ability to play for a top PL side. All they show is roughly your ranking among your fellow countrymen, which in this case isn't such a great endorsement for Gibson.

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Thanks for actually answering the question. That's your assertion, I don't think it's on the money. As I've said international recognition mattered with Gibson because he barely made a dent in the Utd first team (cue 'CL semi-final' etc etc) and was way down the pecking order when shipped out.

Done with this, Gibson thread or bust.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

So remaining realistic candidates:



McCarthy
Pros
- Already an experienced International manager.
- Has a great affinity with the team and fans.
- Apparently has a release clause in his contract which allows him to take the job if offered.
- 2002 World Cup perhaps the pinacle for any Irish team, performance wise.
Cons
- Has a very average managerial record compared to some of the alternatives.
- Besides the 2002 World Cup his almost 7 years in charge were fruitless with considerably better resources than Trappatoni.

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Reports say Mick's free release clause ran out in August.

I don't understand why he'd have an international job release clause that expires in the middle of an international campaign.