Election 2011 - General

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

The Greens should be taken out and hung, they spoke in favour of a Nuclear Power Station in Wexford, laughing about the tiny number of Chernobyl deaths (less than 10).

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Link. Please, pretty please, link.

Spudulika, I usually find myself in agreement with you, but those facts are, afaik, dead wrong. A nuclear reactor for Wexford wasn’t in the Programme for Government, the revised PfG, or either of the manifestos of the three governing parties in 2007. Are you mixing up your information with Eamon Ryan calling for a debate on nuclear energy, which, he said, would give voters enough information to decide to reject an Irish nuclear plant? I graded a dissertation recently enough on governmental policy on nuclear power in Ireland that failed to mention either of your points. (Granted, they may have been made after the student finished: I stand open to correction).

Is it just me or is there a lot of guff on this site recently about the Greens? The kind of screaming hyperbole that would fit better with the Tea Party Movement than with otherwise sensible posters (and even those I disagree with are generally sensible and well-reasoned)?

Yes: the Greens are architects of their own misfortune. Yes: they are going to be punished by the electorate for propping up FF, and it’s not undeserved. Yes: people are hurting because of increases in fuel prices, and because many Green policies cost to implement. Yes: they deserve criticism for their actions. Yes: they showed incredible naivety over the last 4 years. Yes: they speak to a middle-class urban voter, and not the electorate as a whole....

But no party deserves to be slaughtered with wilful disinformation and the kind of vitriol those articulate chaps in the IFA and the tally-ho West Brit hunting brigade proffer instead of discourse.

And lest I’m accused of partisanship, the same applies for every party.

A little more belle raison, chère clarté, if you please.

Rant over. Politics lecturer’s hat taken off until classes recommence next week...

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Originally Posted by Eminence Grise

But no party deserves to be slaughtered with wilful disinformation and the kind of vitriol those articulate chaps in the IFA and the tally-ho West Brit hunting brigade proffer instead of discourse.

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I wouldn't have thought they've been hammered on here on the basis of IFA or pro-hunt lobby tbh. For all the other completely valid (imo) reasons you mentioned - and you missed Gormley leading them in after the feckin planet bertie speech - yes they have been hammered on here.

I'd agree with you I don't recall them being in favour of nuclear, and I think that all blew up over Greens in other countries moving towards nuclear being a least worse option. Not 100% but I think the French Greens support nuclear power as a fossil fuel alternative. Of course, once the interconnector (one of Ryan's pet projects) is live, if it isn't already, Ireland is already effectively nuclear powered anyway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eminence Grise

Link. Please, pretty please, link.

Spudulika, I usually find myself in agreement with you, but those facts are, afaik, dead wrong. A nuclear reactor for Wexford wasn’t in the Programme for Government, the revised PfG, or either of the manifestos of the three governing parties in 2007. Are you mixing up your information with Eamon Ryan calling for a debate on nuclear energy, which, he said, would give voters enough information to decide to reject an Irish nuclear plant? I graded a dissertation recently enough on governmental policy on nuclear power in Ireland that failed to mention either of your points. (Granted, they may have been made after the student finished: I stand open to correction).

Is it just me or is there a lot of guff on this site recently about the Greens? The kind of screaming hyperbole that would fit better with the Tea Party Movement than with otherwise sensible posters (and even those I disagree with are generally sensible and well-reasoned)?

Yes: the Greens are architects of their own misfortune. Yes: they are going to be punished by the electorate for propping up FF, and it’s not undeserved. Yes: people are hurting because of increases in fuel prices, and because many Green policies cost to implement. Yes: they deserve criticism for their actions. Yes: they showed incredible naivety over the last 4 years. Yes: they speak to a middle-class urban voter, and not the electorate as a whole....

But no party deserves to be slaughtered with wilful disinformation and the kind of vitriol those articulate chaps in the IFA and the tally-ho West Brit hunting brigade proffer instead of discourse.

And lest I’m accused of partisanship, the same applies for every party.

A little more belle raison, chère clarté, if you please.

Rant over. Politics lecturer’s hat taken off until classes recommence next week...

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It was on PK Today Spring 2009, a debate with the Greens spokesman on the Nuclear debate, a rep from Npower and "a nuclear energy expert". The Greensman spoke heavily in favour of the Carnsore Point development, Kenny never took him apart. The "expert" said that the deaths from Chernobyl were in single figures, the Npower rep said that Nuclear power would be good business from an Irish point of view.

I know what I'm talking about on this as part of a mini-thesis I re-discovered the old plans from the late-70's in a study of an old Marxist Geography Journal which correctly pointed out the major flaws in Government thinking. Since then I've always kept an eye on the objectives of the government shakers because the plan has only been shelved. I know what I heard on RTE Radio 1 and I apologise I cannot produce a link, though I have mentioned this previously on threads.

In the past I voted for my local Green candidate where there was one, usually up in the top 3 preference slot. I was delighted to see them come in, though as in the mid-late 90's in Germany, they proved themselves no match for the lizards that occupy mainstream politics. They got into bed with one of the most corrupt kleptocracies this nation has seen since DeValera, and didn't have the courage of their convictions to get out when they saw what they were dealing with.

I hope and pray that this upcoming election will deliver a government worth respecting, though the manner in which they will push through this finance bill, continue to sell the soul of the nation, and refuse to do anything that resembles progressive planning, it's sickening.

Again I apologise for not providing a link, though I am certain that an RTE head on hear can provide an archived link to prove me right.

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Originally Posted by Lim till i die

Wow. Just WOW!

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Although he does make a good point near the end, the Irish electorate is easily stupid enough to put Brian Lenihan in charge of the country purely on the basis that he got better from cancer.

The redtop readers probably think he cured it.

Mattie McGrath to run as an Independent: http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0125/treacyn.html

Fortunately we can trust the good people of Tipperary not to be taken in by such a transparently cynical move.

Well. It could happen.

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Originally Posted by Mr A

Mattie McGrath to run as an Independent: http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0125/treacyn.html

Fortunately we can trust the good people of Tipperary not to be taken in by such a transparently cynical move.

Well. It could happen.

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My mother's from there, and I swear that every time I visit relatives down there I hear a new story about Mattie McGrath doing something stupid. It's like he's their pet retard or something.

First of all deepest condolences to all those effected. I am conscious of the sensitivities involved and not at all attempting to play down or belittle the tragedy that occurred in Cork yesterday.

But what, if any, will be the impact on the election campaign of the plane crash? Events such as this can have a dramatic impact on elections. A different situation entirely, but the Madrid bombings cost the peoples party a Spanish General Election they were almost certain to win.

We are a lot further out, and even FF aren't daft enough to try to pull the stroke the PP tried then, so one would expect the impact to be much less in this situation. But will there be any impact at all?

Could the statesmanlike performance (he has done very well in the coverage we are getting in the north, though I haven't seen as much of him in southern news) of Martin McGuinness, or the fact he was almost on the plane, have any impact on SF's performance? Is the airport in Micheál Martin's constituency?

Obviously this is remains speculative business at this point. There are a number of funerals to come, which will, rightly or wrongly, be set piece media events where a politician can do him or her self enormous credit/damage with a few words. and

Without trying to minimise the loss of life, it's a 12 person crash with 6 fatalities, what possible effect could it have on a national election? If it does, we're a lot worse than even my low estimations of the country as a whole.

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Originally Posted by dahamsta

Without trying to minimise the loss of life, it's a 12 person crash with 6 fatalities, what possible effect could it have on a national election? If it does, we're a lot worse than even my low estimations of the country as a whole.

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Not necessarily anything so blunt as someone deciding that they have got over 30 years of the IRA because McGuinness missed his plane, but it has had an affect already by dominating the news agenda for 2 days. As tragic an event as it was, it couldn't have happened at a better time for Enda Kenny. Debate-gate is dead because of it.

And no one on here will need to have the role of funerals in Irish political life explained to them.

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Originally Posted by backtowalsall

But what, if any, will be the impact on the election campaign of the plane crash? Events such as this can have a dramatic impact on elections. A different situation entirely, but the Madrid bombings cost the peoples party a Spanish General Election they were almost certain to win.

We are a lot further out, and even FF aren't daft enough to try to pull the stroke the PP tried then, so one would expect the impact to be much less in this situation. But will there be any impact at all?

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Al-Qaeda Outrage v Air Accident from Fog. It's not really a like-for-like comparison. FG and Lab will still coast home.

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Originally Posted by backtowalsall

Not necessarily anything so blunt as someone deciding that they have got over 30 years of the IRA because McGuinness missed his plane, but it has had an affect already by dominating the news agenda for 2 days. As tragic an event as it was, it couldn't have happened at a better time for Enda Kenny. Debate-gate is dead because of it.

And no one on here will need to have the role of funerals in Irish political life explained to them.

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"Debate Gate" as you call it, was a non-event anyway. Even the meeja are acknowleding that Kenny's non appearance won't matter, especially as he is due to appear in 3 debates before the end of the campaign.

So... how will all these O'Callaghan revelations affect Micheal?

Who's for an FG minority government?

FG 38% (+3)
Lab 20% (-2)
FF 15% (-2)
I/O 14% (+3)
SF 10% (-3)
GP 3% (+1)

If it did transpire that Labour became the main Opposition party, it would pretty much lock FF into third-party status (they'd barely make 20 seats on these figures).

Are these the new RedC figures?

Yes, this is the new Red C poll - the projections given from this are:

FG 76
Lab 38
FF 20
Ind 20
SF 12
Greens 0

Still can't see us having that many independents.

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Originally Posted by culloty82

Yes, this is the new Red C poll - the projections given from this are:

FG 76
Lab 38
FF 20
Ind 20
SF 12
Greens 0

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:eek:

We're overestimating the power of the voting booth, FF will jump a good 10-15 seats. 10 Independents, FG with less, hopefully Leo the Lovely not re-elected.

That Independents category also includes ULA candidates.