Tipp South & District League 2010/11

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Originally Posted by saintsfan

Yeah was at game. definitely a case of 2 points dropped by Saints. Peake were delighted to get the point. I heard someone say that the goalie was an outfield player. Saints hit cross bars, posts, everything, except the back of the net. They just couldnt finish the job. Saying that, Derek Breen was virtually a spectator for most of game. Peake goalie didnt have a minute to catch this breath. it's still game on. Saints have a game in hand against Galbally and town have to go to Cooke Park, so its all to play for. Saints were missing 5 players. They better improve for next Sunday. Celtic will be a hard test for them in FAI.

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What happens St.Michaels every season. Last season won first seven league games, then collapsed, didn't even finish runners-up. This season hammered everybody in first six games and now dropped four points in last two games. They struggled to beat Moyglass in last round of cup, stated short 6 players. Yesterday stated short 5 players. Why always short players? Who were the 5 missing against Peake and why were they missing? Where is Chalkie - has yet to play in this years F.A.I. cup. There was nothing wrong with him playing for international team recently. Is everything okay in the camp? All to do to beat Clonmel Celtic who always perform well in Cooke Park.

starting 11 for saints versus peake taken off saint michaels website
ST.MICHAELS:
1.DEREK BREEN
2.MICHAEL FITZGERALD
3.CHRIS HIGGINS
4.JAMES POWER
5.PAUL BREEN
6.RAY McMAHON
7.JOHN CONNERY
8.RICHIE RYAN
9.PA QUINN
10.PADRAIC FOGARTY
11.JIMMY CARR
---------------------------------
SUBS: 14. DANNY O'BRIEN FOR
7. JOHN CONNERY;
12. SEAN O'HALLORAN FOR
10. PADRAIC FOGARTY;
13. JASON SUTTON
15. JOHN BOURKE

PEAKE VILLA:
1.CHRISTY BOURKE
2.JODY O'GRADY
3.CONOR WALSH
4.DONAL DUGGAN
5.DAVID SHANAHAN
16.BRENDAN CONNOLLY
7.MICHAEL RYAN
15.KIERAN DWYER
12.STEPHEN CARROLL
10.DAVID MAHER
9.BART SHAROWSKY


Saints appearr to be missing paul tobin, james walsh, thomas fahey, trevor cosgrove all starters in there 1st eleven. plus new signings in squad ross cosgrove and shane guerin appear to be missing, so thats alot of players out. there squad is so big there always gonna be missing a few every week so wouldnt read too much into it. looking at peake team its almost unrecognisable from title winning team last year but fair play to them for getting the point must have battled real hard

Ya christy bourke would be a striker for the peake villa youths team, a very good player. Never heard of him before to play in goal. Fair play to him.

Two-Mile-Borris v Michaels B
Just to Quietman. I know a referee should never be assaulted but there was only a jersey caught. It`s easy to come out with stupid jokes like why don`t you do a course yourself but referees don`t go out and ref a match out of the goodness of their hearts, they get paid well for it and you expect a bit of fair play.

The fact that the referee had a brother playing for michaels is just absolutely shocking. If anybody outside of the league heard about this we`d be the laughing stock of the country. Is it any wonder paddy power allegedly won`t take any bets on TSDL matches suspecting match fixing!

It`s typical of the favouritism the league show to st michaels that this referee was appointed for this match. And Michaels the honest team that they are (reporting pike last year) never thought to ring the league and report the fact that there might be a conflict of interest!

The league need to show the smaller clubs a bit of respect and stop making there favouritism so blatently obvious.

Fairdecision....(l take it the name is a pun), Firstly, think about what you're saying here. you seem to be condoning a player grabbing a referees jersey and from what I heard the player was agressively shaking the poor referee? But even if he "only" grabbed the jersey as you said, that is an assault!! I dare you to walk down to your local school and agressively grab a teacher by the shirt. I think you'd quickly find yourself in cuffs. Would you be ok with the referee agressively grabbing a player and shaking him. I bet not, all the "you can't do that ref" heads would be out calling for him to be crucified

Secondly I don't recall making any stupid jokes, I'm serious, I'm sick of people whinging about referees, if you honestly think the standard of referees in our league is that poor, do something about it. Even if to only see how they're taught and to try understand where they are coming from when making their decisions. As I said before it's Sunday league football, you're going to have to put up with Sunday league quality referees. As for them being paid well, get a grip, we discussed this last season if memory serves correct, they get €42 euro for, when you take into account travelling, petrol and the game where they are frequently abused for 90 min and then you have some idiot, as in this case actually assaulting the referee. Would you do that for €42?? Me thinks not!! If the money was so good the game would be flooded with referees, especially in the current economic climate........

On the point of the referee having a brother playing for one of the teams, I somewhat agree with you, it shouldn't happen. Firstly the League shouldn't make the appointment in the first place and secondly, if the referee is aware that his brother is playing he should get another referee to do the game. This would avoid anybody accusing the referee of being biased.......However, with your comment re: the "conflict of interest" you seem to insinuate that because the referees brother was playing, that he favoured that team and you question his integrity. I think that that is utter b"$%Sh:_e........Again you refer to match fixing in the TSDL, again maybe I'm wrong but I believe that story earlier this year was aimed at players throwing games and nothing to do with the referees.......

Anyways, welcome and good first post........................rant over!!

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Originally Posted by balls

starting 11 for saints versus peake taken off saint michaels website
ST.MICHAELS:
1.DEREK BREEN
2.MICHAEL FITZGERALD
3.CHRIS HIGGINS
4.JAMES POWER
5.PAUL BREEN
6.RAY McMAHON
7.JOHN CONNERY
8.RICHIE RYAN
9.PA QUINN
10.PADRAIC FOGARTY
11.JIMMY CARR
---------------------------------
SUBS: 14. DANNY O'BRIEN FOR
7. JOHN CONNERY;
12. SEAN O'HALLORAN FOR
10. PADRAIC FOGARTY;
13. JASON SUTTON
15. JOHN BOURKE

PEAKE VILLA:
1.CHRISTY BOURKE
2.JODY O'GRADY
3.CONOR WALSH
4.DONAL DUGGAN
5.DAVID SHANAHAN
16.BRENDAN CONNOLLY
7.MICHAEL RYAN
15.KIERAN DWYER
12.STEPHEN CARROLL
10.DAVID MAHER
9.BART SHAROWSKY


Saints appearr to be missing paul tobin, james walsh, thomas fahey, trevor cosgrove all starters in there 1st eleven. plus new signings in squad ross cosgrove and shane guerin appear to be missing, so thats alot of players out. there squad is so big there always gonna be missing a few every week so wouldnt read too much into it. looking at peake team its almost unrecognisable from title winning team last year but fair play to them for getting the point must have battled real hard

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Yeah, they're the six players they were missing, sorry I said 5!! james walsh picked up an injury lately but will be ok for next week. Paul Tobin also carrying an injury, Cooper was playing for Aherlow and dont know why Cosgroves were missing, S Guerin suspended. yeah, they always start great and then go down hill to a certain extent in the league anyway. winning the league is what most supporters would love this year on top of good Cup runs hopefully! we will have to wait and see what happens. will be tough in Cooke Park, and they know Celtic will be hard to beat. Having said that, P Breen played a blinder last Sunday, so it is great to have him back at his best. everybody looking forward to it. also, with regard to last Sunday, Peake were as tough as ever, and anyone going there, will find it hard to beat them on their own patch. The tackles were very lively to say the least, from both sides. either team could have had a red card but stayed on the pitch!

I`m not condoning anybody grabbing a referee. As you probably know games is this league get heated and when a player feels hard done by some times tempers spill over. Most of the time it`s a foul mouthed rant at the referee, unfortunately this time a jersey was grabbed. This is a game of football and not a class room. You could also argue by your reasoning if somebody tackles another student in a classroom and there`s not a ball at his feet he could also end up in cuffs! Lets not blow this out of proportion, this is often referred to as handbags.

Secondly, I wasn`t talking about the standard of refereeing being that poor. I`m on about a referee making the decision to referee a game that he simply cannot be unbiased in. I`m not questioning his integrity, he might not be intentionally biased but thats why this situation isn`t supposed to happen, he can`t help but be biased. And what about the 11 players on the other team. It`s in their head from the ofset rightly or wrongly that this referee could be favouring the other team. This is no way to go out and play a match. That put the game on edge before the whistle was even blown. You can call it "b"$%Sh:_e" if you like but if the best most honest referee in the word was paul scholes brother and ref`d a united match how do you think the oposition would react.

As for the referees fee and the expense of travelling, there is a travel expense on top of the fee depending on how far they have to travel. And as we all know some of the refs in the league haven`t any interest in football but I`m not saying that they are doing any less of a job.

Also I know the rumours from the summer weren`t aimed at referees I was just pointing out how these decisions look for someboody on the outside looking in at them!

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Originally Posted by saintsfan

Yeah, they're the six players they were missing, sorry I said 5!! james walsh picked up an injury lately but will be ok for next week. Paul Tobin also carrying an injury, Cooper was playing for Aherlow and dont know why Cosgroves were missing, S Guerin suspended. yeah, they always start great and then go down hill to a certain extent in the league anyway. winning the league is what most supporters would love this year on top of good Cup runs hopefully! we will have to wait and see what happens. will be tough in Cooke Park, and they know Celtic will be hard to beat. Having said that, P Breen played a blinder last Sunday, so it is great to have him back at his best. everybody looking forward to it. also, with regard to last Sunday, Peake were as tough as ever, and anyone going there, will find it hard to beat them on their own patch. The tackles were very lively to say the least, from both sides. either team could have had a red card but stayed on the pitch!

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Wilderness came up and won comfortably 2 nil and Clonmel Town game up when we still had Foggy,Alan Leahy and a goalkeeper playing and beat us 4 nil, Saints also scored 6 minutes into injury time in Cooke Park to snatch the win against us, it is far from "tough as ever" without Leahy,Foggy,O Connor,David Duggan,Bannon,Aoron Ryan,Pj Mooney

thats some list of players to be down megatots you could nearly add barry ryan and derek loughnane to that list too they prob should still be with peake too. aaron ryan and leahy massive loss to any defence, is aaron ryan gone to another club or is he injured?

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Originally Posted by fairdecision

I`m not condoning anybody grabbing a referee. As you probably know games is this league get heated and when a player feels hard done by some times tempers spill over. Most of the time it`s a foul mouthed rant at the referee, unfortunately this time a jersey was grabbed. This is a game of football and not a class room. You could also argue by your reasoning if somebody tackles another student in a classroom and there`s not a ball at his feet he could also end up in cuffs! Lets not blow this out of proportion, this is often referred to as handbags.

Secondly, I wasn`t talking about the standard of refereeing being that poor. I`m on about a referee making the decision to referee a game that he simply cannot be unbiased in. I`m not questioning his integrity, he might not be intentionally biased but thats why this situation isn`t supposed to happen, he can`t help but be biased. And what about the 11 players on the other team. It`s in their head from the ofset rightly or wrongly that this referee could be favouring the other team. This is no way to go out and play a match. That put the game on edge before the whistle was even blown. You can call it "b"$%Sh:_e" if you like but if the best most honest referee in the word was paul scholes brother and ref`d a united match how do you think the oposition would react.

As for the referees fee and the expense of travelling, there is a travel expense on top of the fee depending on how far they have to travel. And as we all know some of the refs in the league haven`t any interest in football but I`m not saying that they are doing any less of a job.

Also I know the rumours from the summer weren`t aimed at referees I was just pointing out how these decisions look for someboody on the outside looking in at them!

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It still sounds to me like you are condoning this as "handbags" as you put it. The point I was trying to make is that any unwanted contact crosses a boundary, when this contact is in an aggressive manner it is an assault, a minor assault granted but under UEFA directives the match must be abandoned. No-one involved in football in their right mind would even try justify this players actions. In my opinion he's looking at a lenghty ban, and rightly so!

As for the fees, they do get travel expenses but not on top of the €42, it's on top of the match fee which is only €24 and it's at .50 cent a mile. So as you can see they would have to travel more than 18 miles from home in order to come above €42..............

As I said I agree the referee shouldn't be on the game to begin with, but to say that he cannot help but be biased?? I'm sorry but you are questioning his integrity!! And I'm guessing you don't know the referee personally so the only basis for your comment is that he had a brother on the opposing team...

OK Quietman it still sounds to me like you`re condoning the appointment of this referee for this match. It`s obvious you know this ref personally as probably all the st M`s camp do. Maybe I am questioning not his integrity to ref a match fairly but his decision not to report this to the league and also st M`s decision not to report this to the league. It`s not his or st M`s decision as to whether he can ref a match like this in an unbiased manor or not. The simple fact of the matter is this game shouldn`t have been played with this ref and call it a coincidance but there has never been a match between T-M-B and st M`s abandoned before to my recolection but maybe you can correct me on that?

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Originally Posted by Quietman

As for the fees, they do get travel expenses but not on top of the €42, it's on top of the match fee which is only €24 and it's at .50 cent a mile. So as you can see they would have to travel more than 18 miles from home in order to come above €42..............

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Are you sure of this. I have heard of referees charging up to 66 euro

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Originally Posted by fairdecision

OK Quietman it still sounds to me like you`re condoning the appointment of this referee for this match. It`s obvious you know this ref personally as probably all the st M`s camp do. Maybe I am questioning not his integrity to ref a match fairly but his decision not to report this to the league and also st M`s decision not to report this to the league. It`s not his or st M`s decision as to whether he can ref a match like this in an unbiased manor or not. The simple fact of the matter is this game shouldn`t have been played with this ref and call it a coincidance but there has never been a match between T-M-B and st M`s abandoned before to my recolection but maybe you can correct me on that?

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Obviously I'm not making myself clear here, I agree that the referee shouldn't have been on the game. Not because he would be biased towards the team on which his brother was playing but to save himself from this exact scenario where the other team question his integrity. I don't know the man and I'm not a St. Michaels follower so lose all the conspiricy theories.....Also he wouldn't be the first referee to referee a game where he had a direct blood relative playing. Quite a few of the referees in Tipperary have sons playing for local teams and have refereed games in which they played. The appointments are made by the League who I'm sure are aware of the situations but have full trust in the integrity of the referees...............

I couldn't tell you if there was ever a game abandoned between your two clubs, but the fact that this one was has nothing to do with the appointment of this referee. It was abandoned because an idiot assaulted the referee. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't there one of your B Teams games abandoned last season because a referee was assaulted?? By a goalkeeper if memory serves correct.....maybe it was Peake actually but Maybe the Club should look internally at its own discipline............

ive seen a ref paid 75 euro this season for a game in tsdl

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Originally Posted by ponyobrien

Are you sure of this. I have heard of referees charging up to 66 euro

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Maybe in seasons gone Pony, the FAI mileage rate was reduced from .72 cent to .50. Any refs on here can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe It's broke down like this:

Match fee of €24 + €18 expenses = €42 per game. If ref travels more than a 36 mile round trip then the expenses are dropped and they add .50 Cent per mile. So to use the example you gave the ref would have to travel a 42 mile round trip, thats 21 from his home to the pitch to charge €66. Also if it's a premier game the match fee is €30..................

But where did he come from, and to where?? Was it premier game??
Also it must be put on the matchcard, and the League check it I'm sure!!

It was a villa B game. Can`t comment on it as I wasn`t at the game.
Can`t comment on whether the league knew about the refs situation because I don`t know. I`m sure if they did they`d have appointed someone else.
As for the ref`s fees 60 euro is the most I`ve seen charged this season but I`m not complaining about the price, All I was saying is that they are not doing it out of the goodness of their heart.

Quietman's 'tussle' with fairdecision has been entertaining and sometimes informative.

First of all any abuse of a referee whether physical (that includes shirt pulling), verbal or otherwise should not be tolerated as it is self defeating. You need a lot of referees for a healthy league in South Tipperary and this kind of coverage will not attract people to take up refereeing. The simple fact is that you won't have football if you don't keep attracting people to replace those who will eventually move on.

My issue with referees especially the South Tipperary Branch is that they don't seem accountable to anyone. In any profession inept, incompetent people are eventually weeded out but this does not seem to apply here. Although you are supposed to have an assessor going regularly to games the simply fact is there is only one of them and even he will admit he doesn't get to monitor enough referees so the poor ones are allowed to perform badly week in week out. And like the medical profession when it comes to criticism they all come together to look after themselves. When was the last time a referee was sanctioned for poor performance? The TSDL are powerless when it comes to referees and indeed their relationship with the referees leaves alot to be desired. From what I can see it is adversarial rather than co-operative which is bad for the local game. The league appear afraid of the Referees and avoid any kind of conflict at all costs as evidenced a few years back with the referees strike. The South Tipp Association are like a big boys club whose main motivation is self preservation.

without referees we have no football and nothing to talk about so long may this continue,the referees do their best and like the players make mistakes

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Originally Posted by Roberto

Quietman's 'tussle' with fairdecision has been entertaining and sometimes informative.

First of all any abuse of a referee whether physical (that includes shirt pulling), verbal or otherwise should not be tolerated as it is self defeating. You need a lot of referees for a healthy league in South Tipperary and this kind of coverage will not attract people to take up refereeing. The simple fact is that you won't have football if you don't keep attracting people to replace those who will eventually move on.

My issue with referees especially the South Tipperary Branch is that they don't seem accountable to anyone. In any profession inept, incompetent people are eventually weeded out but this does not seem to apply here. Although you are supposed to have an assessor going regularly to games the simply fact is there is only one of them and even he will admit he doesn't get to monitor enough referees so the poor ones are allowed to perform badly week in week out. And like the medical profession when it comes to criticism they all come together to look after themselves. When was the last time a referee was sanctioned for poor performance? The TSDL are powerless when it comes to referees and indeed their relationship with the referees leaves alot to be desired. From what I can see it is adversarial rather than co-operative which is bad for the local game. The league appear afraid of the Referees and avoid any kind of conflict at all costs as evidenced a few years back with the referees strike. The South Tipp Association are like a big boys club whose main motivation is self preservation.

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Fair point Roberto. From what I understand about the current referee situation is this.......... Firstly, it's the league who appoint the referees to games, and not the referees themselves, so if say a referee does a high profile game this weekend and one of the clubs involved complains to the league about the referees performance, then the league and only the league have to power to move that referee to a lower fixture next week. The problem with accountability is that you must have evidence of the mistake/incompetence. And as none of the local games are recorded then that evidence isnt available. So then what you have normally and I think it's fair to say is this, the losing team complaining about the referee and that comes across then as sour grapes. I also think it's fair to say that the referee on the day might honestly think that he had a good game as he has no other officials there to give their opinions/feedback on the game. And even if the assessor sees a referee having a poor game the assessment will try I'm sure to help the referee progress with advice to take into his next gaame and not to deprive him of games.

I'm actually quite friendly with one of the local referees, hence how I knew about the fees etc...... I believe that the referees met with Clonmel Celtic last year when they had queries regarding referees and that they, the referees would like to have better communication with all clubs and are in fact willing and open to meeting with the clubs. They even approached the league and offered to meet the clubs as a whole pre season!! As for their relationship with the league? It's poor at best. The referees have the same poor relationship with the league as the clubs in that you just can't talk to the man in charge as he doesn't listen. But be under no illusion here, it is the league who appoint the rerferees to all your games and not the referees themselves. In an ideal world the referee assessor would and should make those appointments as he is trained to identify problems and mistakes.d

Actually on the matter of other officials, I note that the Waterford league use 3 officials on all there premier games, why doesn't this happen in Tipp? Is it purely down to money?