Rugby Union 2009

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Originally Posted by brianw82

It just seems to be a typical Sky Sports, hype-driven affair. Are the N. Hemisphere teams so weak in the modern age that they have to pool their resources to beat one of the S.Hemisphere teams? No, there have been several examples in recent years of Northern teams beating Southern ones, although the Southerners still hold a general advantage. It's perpetuating a stereotype that our teams can't compete on their own, even though they've clearly proved they can.

Also, it's been a long rugby season. The SA teams play ferociously - why would the likes of O'Driscoll and O'Connell travel all this way to get battered for 6 weeks after winning Magners Leagues, Heineken Cups and Six Nations titles, and having busted their guts to do so? Doesn't make any sense to me.

Finally, to be extremely cynical, it just seems an excuse for Irish people to wear a British jersey and not feel at all bad about it, because they've stuck "and Irish" in the middle of "British Lions" And yes, I do know that Irish players have always played in the Lions, that's not the point. The point is that in this endeavour, everyone involved with rugby is happy to be British in all but name.

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There is a lot of history behind the Lions. Never mind Skysports, it predates TV.

As for giving Irish people an excuse to wear a British jersey, given the amount of English football jersies in the country I don't think people have to search too hard for an excuse.

I find that a lot of the blow in fans of rugby who never played or supported an AIL or junior side are the ones that are bothered by the Lions and to a lesser extent the international side. For most people that grew up with rugby, the Lions is a rare example to watch the best of the 4 nations play together.

Maybe now is the time to make it more inclusive and bring in France and Italy, in the same way the Ryder Cup did it the 70s. I suspect that would end the complaining, as it's real driven from an anti-British stance whatever the reasons given.

Now is probably a good time to widen it as I can't see any scratch side being as competitive as in the past now the professional game is embedded.

if you are going to do that why not a xv from N v 15 from south. Its like the provinces a whole continent versus one country its hardly fair....

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Do you read Ross O'Carroll Kelly? Kiely's is the epicentre of collar up, roysh lads, D4-ism.

I don't say that as a negative, only as a statement of fact.

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I would hardly use a satirical series of novels and articles as useful sources for facts. Kiely's is a pub, one that is unsurprisingly popular amongst rugby people given its location in Donnybrook. It also happens to serve good beer.

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Originally Posted by brianw82

Am I the only one who doesn't give a fiddler's fart about the Lions?

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NO!

I love rugby and golf is probably my favourite sport, but I really don't get the hype that surrounds the Lions Tour and The Ryder Cup.....

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Originally Posted by Aberdonian Stu

I would hardly use a satirical series of novels and articles as useful sources for facts.

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I think you misunderstand. Kiely's is flash because Leinster Rugby drinks there and Leinster Rugby is flash because it drinks in Keily's. It's a perfectly straightforward and logical argument.

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Originally Posted by brianw82

Am I the only one who doesn't give a fiddler's fart about the Lions?

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I think if didn't have Sky Sports I would not go out of my way to watch it. Would be more interested in Irish performances than Lions results.

Well the bottom line is it means a hell of alot to the players playing. These players have grown up wanting to be lions players because it is such a rare thing to be apart of and not everyone gets a chance to be involved. Alot of rugby players come from clubs with great history of past greats playing in these tests and they want to emulate this and be apart of it. If its the British part people have problems with well basically thats just sad. Call it the Irish and British Lions if you feel like that. The british part gets no preference over any thing else. The crest have all four countries crests on it and gives no special preference to any one.

I'd be with OneRedArmy, in that it's something that's always been something referenced when you're playing rugby. It's probably un-PC these days, but I remember the '73 tour being referenced when it was being drilled into us to stick up for each other on the pitch. I saw Jonathon Davies on inside sport suggesting it was the one regret of his career that he didn't play for the Lions.

I don't remember such a back lash the last tour, but then rugby wasn't on such a wave then and wasn't deemed to be threatening other sports to the extent it is now.

I don't agree with extending it out to France and Italy though. The only reason golf did it was because the Ryder Cup was no longer competitive. The only reason the lions survived professionalism is because of the history and tradition - no need to mess with that to try and justify it as not being perceived as "British".

Well the big issue a lot of fans had with the last tour was the squad size. It was far too big and somewhat devalued the meaning of a call up.

Is this a smaller squad?

Much, it's got 8 less players,

Woodward wrecked the ethos as well. Bringing Alastair Campbell as a spin doctor, completely separating the dirt-trackers (midweek side) and the Test side at an early stage etc. The Kiwi media makes the English rags looks like Ireland's Own and when they got a sniff of blood the wheels fell off.

For anyone thats not convinced about the Lions, at least get a copy of Living with the Lions from 1997 (I have it on video, not sure about DVD?). Absolutely seminal fly on the wall sports documentary. Passionate stuff, but most of all, the craic looks mighty (for players and fans alike) and I came away from it wanting to go on a tour (still unfulfilled, bloody recession!).

I was on that Lions tour in 97 as a drunken spectator and boy what a trip. The atmosphere, particularly at the mid week games was unreal. Watching that Living with Lions DVD really brought it back. The camraderie and unity really showed in the on field performances and this was highlighted by three things in particular on that DVD- Firstly, John Bentley. A 'never before heard of' Rugby League guy whose personality really lit up the tour. That, and his absolutely amazing try in the midweek game against the Gauteng Lions.
Secondly, the determination of Martin Johnson to get back out on the field after this against Natal.
And thirdly...just imagine how motivated they were after this.
What a great sporting experience that tour was. I will remember it forever.

D'Arcy called up for the lions... http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rug...247983947.html

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Originally Posted by Macy

D'Arcy called up for the lions... http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rug...247983947.html

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Before D'arcy were Roberts & Flutey the only inside centres?

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Originally Posted by pete

Before D'arcy were Roberts & Flutey the only inside centres?

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Earls, The Luke and BOD have all played there as well.

Big big win tonight with impressive performances by Bowe, BOD (apart from gifting them a try by moving up too soon), Roberts, Hines and Croft. The Lions are struggling badly at half back. On Saturday, ROG and Blair were poor...tonight Jones and Phillips didn't fare much better. I fear for them against the Boks back row and halves.

Improvement needed...but possible.

Thought Bowe was a different class on the pitch, scoring two tries and setting up a couple. O Driscoll and roberts had a great game and all the forwards where solid both in attacking with the ball and agressive in defense. Phillips did well but got away with alot, he was slow with passing at times but was able to recover well with his strenght. He gives another great option though with the way he can attack and off load in the tackle. Kearney did very well and tried to attack more than he has been recently but if Byrne keeps his form up i think he will get the fullback position for the test side.

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Originally Posted by brianw82

It just seems to be a typical Sky Sports, hype-driven affair. Are the N. Hemisphere teams so weak in the modern age that they have to pool their resources to beat one of the S.Hemisphere teams? No, there have been several examples in recent years of Northern teams beating Southern ones, although the Southerners still hold a general advantage. It's perpetuating a stereotype that our teams can't compete on their own, even though they've clearly proved they can.

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what rubbish. the tour existed long before sky. skys coverage actually allows us to see all the matches which wasnt possible before. maybe hyped up a little... but so what?

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Originally Posted by brianw82

Also, it's been a long rugby season. The SA teams play ferociously - why would the likes of O'Driscoll and O'Connell travel all this way to get battered for 6 weeks after winning Magners Leagues, Heineken Cups and Six Nations titles, and having busted their guts to do so? Doesn't make any sense to me.

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did it cross your mind that they may be proud sportsmen eagar to be involved in something with such a long and proud tradition? they are clearly loving being part of it. anyway, the Irish international rugby player is a very protected sportsman who only plays a limited amount of matches a season to protect them from burn-out

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Originally Posted by brianw82

Finally, to be extremely cynical, it just seems an excuse for Irish people to wear a British jersey and not feel at all bad about it, because they've stuck "and Irish" in the middle of "British Lions" And yes, I do know that Irish players have always played in the Lions, that's not the point. The point is that in this endeavour, everyone involved with rugby is happy to be British in all but name.

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i thought your post couldnt get any worse but you really did save the best for last :rolleyes:

Third side selected. Fitzgerald playing inside centre is intereting enough. D'Arcy on the bench

Lions team v Cheetahs:
Lee Byrne (Ospreys & Wales);
Leigh Halfpenny (Cardiff Blues & Wales),
Keith Earls (Munster & Ireland),
Luke Fitzgerald (Leinster & Ireland),
Shane Williams (Ospreys & Wales);
James Hook (Ospreys & Wales),
Harry Ellis (Leicester & England);
Andrew Sheridan (Sale & England),
Ross Ford (Edinburgh & Scotland),
Euan Murray (Northampton & Scotland),
Donncha O'Callaghan (Munster & Ireland),
Paul O'Connell (Munster & Ireland - capt),
Stephen Ferris (Ulster & Ireland),
Joe Worsley (Wasps & England),
Andy Powell (Cardiff Blues & Wales).

Replacements:
Matthew Rees (Scarlets & Wales),
Adam Jones (Ospreys & Wales),
Simon Shaw (Wasps & England),
Nathan Hines (Perpignan & Scotland),
Mike Blair (Edinburgh & Scotland),
Ronan O'Gara (Munster & Ireland),
Gordon D'Arcy (Leinster & Ireland).