CL knock out stage

Ball to hand? Hand to ball? Who cares? If the ref hadn't sent off Abidal for breathing on Anelka, there probably would not have been any handball by Pique or Eto'o.

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Originally Posted by osarusan

I think that "ball to hand / hand to ball" is a flawed simplification of the issue of whether a handball was intentional or not.

Let's take a scenario where a defender stands on the goalline with his arms stretched up grabbing the crossbar. The ball is headed onto his arms by an attacker, and there is no question that the ball would have crossed the line had it not hit his arm. However, the defender has not moved his arms in any way to block the ball. Is this a penalty?

Is moving your hand into the path of the ball to block it different from putting your arms in a position where they will likely block a ball that you wouldn't otherwise block?

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I was just quoting from the Uefa website. In your instance why are in hands there? To stop the ball going over the line. Deliberate handball.

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Originally Posted by lopez

Ball to hand? Hand to ball? Who cares? If the ref hadn't sent off Abidal for breathing on Anelka, there probably would not have been any handball by Pique or Eto'o.

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To stop the rush to judgement led by Sky and the British media. An analysis of each of the penalty claims shows there is a doubt about them all and a referee has to be 100% sure. In the Anelka instance he was originally pulled back by Abidal and most people who saw it ffirst time round thought it was a deliberate trip. Very easy to be wise and criticise the referee after 10 slow motions which the referee never gets to see.

And I repeat, even if Chelsea were awared one, there seems to be a presumption they would have scored. Not bnecessarily true.

Fianlly, I had to laugh when Rednapp criticised the use of a Norwegian referee when Sky (horse head Gray in particular) spend their whole time having a go at English referees and their "faulty judgements."

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

I was just quoting from the Uefa website. In your instance why are in hands there? To stop the ball going over the line. Deliberate handball.

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Absolutely correct. But it is an example of "ball to hand" and not "hand to ball" which is the point the referee quoted on the UEFA website makes as the only thing a referee needs to consider. That's why I think the "hand to ball" argument is a flawed simplification.

That is why I asked this question -

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Is moving your hand into the path of the ball to block it different from putting your arms in a position where they will likely block a ball that you wouldn't otherwise block?

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What I should do is look up the rule myself, but am just too lazy.

Iniesta is out for at least 2 weeks with a torn muscle after the Villareal match tonight, not good news as he is a key player for Barca (and was IMO Spain's second best player in Euro 2008, behind Senna).