Sporting even turned down a bid from Celtic for star midfielder Shaun Williams, who could now leave for free if his contract is breached by continued non-payment of wages
Thats LOI in a nutshell.
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Sporting even turned down a bid from Celtic for star midfielder Shaun Williams, who could now leave for free if his contract is breached by continued non-payment of wages
Thats LOI in a nutshell.
100% not true. He was on trial at celtic and Wolves. neither offered him a dealQuote:
Originally Posted by hoops1
he cant go now as the transfer window is closedQuote:
Originally Posted by hoops1
He could leave for a LOI club :DQuote:
Originally Posted by mick dundee
Dodge, please, don't talk sense. It's far better to let wummers take hold :-) I heard the same thing as you, plus he was being chased by a Premier club but nothing coming close to a half decent offer came in. he's out of contract this year so I reckon the Scots figured they'd pick him up cheaper in the summer or for nothing in November.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
I truly hope they survive as, coming from the Fingal area, they've done a massive amount for local communities, which should be held up as a benchmark. Instead it'll show that they were trying to be too Pollyanna instead of concentrating on football.
@Ezekial - clubs gazump others all the time, I still worry about business models across the league, especially with the Model club (tm Tallaght). Nobody is more than a step from disaster, not just in Ireland, jesus last week one of the best run clubs in Russia went belly up because the local council told them they a) couldn't host concerts in the stadium they own, b) the council wouldn't fund them (20% of the budget), c) they had to hire "independent security" (ie some connected local's security firm). In total they faced losing 40% of their budget and couldn't carry the contracts they had. So they resigned from the league and dropped down, they were debt free. If you remember how it was in Dundalk in 99-01, it was never more than a bounced cheque from collapse, only for the local business community to be understanding and the boom begin to take hold. As supporters it's important to point out when clubs are acting up, however the tone on here, and other parallel threads, smacks too much of nasty triumphalism from people whose own clubs hardly covered themselves in glory.
Can't wait to see the back of them, they were the final death fart of the Celtic Tiger, the epitome of its deception, corruption and greed. So long Sporting Franchise.
What exactly was Fingal's proposed business plan based on? Some bloke in a pub saying "I'll have that money for you Tuesday" only to backtrack this week "Jayziz I clean forgot about that. I'm a bit strapped now. I'll have to leave you down"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Longfordian
I'll have to bookmark this thread so I can laugh at a few people when their clubs inevitably go bust.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
100% not true, 100k offered and rejected. Outrageous now
It was nowhere near 100k.
Personally, I don't want to see them go bust. I just can't understand how this can keep happening over and over again. I have mixed feelings about them. I always felt they're a nothing club - a pretend-rich man's plaything with very few fans and no history and that we didn't need another start-up Dublin club spending grotesquely. In other ways, they played fantastic football and, if they bulit slowly over time, could have been a good addition to the league.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I'd prefer to see them survive as a proper football club. Partly because it would be some kick in the stones to see third-placed Monaghan go up when they didn't win the play-off series outright. This business of starting up a new club, outspending everyone to get promoted, win the cup, play in Europe and then (possibly) go bust all in the space of three years is absolutely crazy.
I don't wish the demise of any club (please don't tell me to look back at my other posts again), but really once Gannon was in financial trouble and with him eventually pulling out alot of us on here questioned Fingals future. Some like myself also questioned things like is there really much of a need for another club in the Dublin area as it is saturated with clubs and how would Fingal ever gain a decent support, these questions still remain unanswered. No matter about what other clubs do and how close they are to financial ruin, the way Fingal where going to be financed this season was and still is very questionable more so than any club in the league at the moment, so that’s why its gaining a lot of debate at the moment. I don't mind a new club setting up in the league and if possible gradually grow into a decent club that is sustainable but Sporting Fingal (like its cousin Dublin City) basically saw the bright lights, gambled and overspent to get to the top without building at the grassroots. As a result I don't have sympathy for them and personally feel this reckless way they went about their business when they still where in their infancy as a club has no place in the league and yes I understand they are not alone in reckless spending any person with any knowledge of the league knows this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudulika
Please don't say again this is an ignorant view and that LOI "fans" like me only think of the success of their own club even if this means the ruin of other clubs because in my case this is not true - I never wish what happened to the likes of Bohs, Cork, Shels, etc – but these clubs due to their history and tradition are corner stones of the league (their reckless spending however can’t be excused) but in my view have to be looked in a different light then the likes of Dublin City and Sporting Fingal which came in and had great intentions but really had little else.
Or spending ratepayers' money. Or having pretend rich men investing in pretend clubs solely to have land in a pretend county rezoned for pretend housing.Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemovie
Anyone with half a brain can, and will, see it's the money they spent on the team that has them screwed, not their community work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudulika
Did this more optimistic press release issue?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
You've shown your colours very clearly in a less than decent manner Sporting Fingal (like its cousin Dublin City) - when you can write a sentence without a dig you'll show greater consistency.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinney
I heard back in 2000, it was in our national media, whether it was better for one team in Louth. Two senior league sides were too many. I thought then it smacked of ignorance and lack of information and ambition. At the time Dundalk were the junior partner. It's great that you'll allow a team in the league if they build up from the grassroots, not trying to do both at once. It's thinking like this which has good junior sides happily staying out of senior league football as it's not worth the hassle.
Macy, read what I wrote again, it might take more than half a brain to do it, you have more than double, so see what I wrote, if they'd solely focused on football, with ALL resources, they might just have survived. You probably know that this wasn't the case. Trying to be all things to all people in Ireland will always end in ruin, no matter how good the motives are.
So there was a bid? Or are you talking out of an orifice other than your mouth again?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lep
According to todays Herald problem arose when a sponsor ( UK based finance company) pulled out yesterday. Hope they can pull through but strange that they appeared to be spending (realitively) big with all thier eggs in one ,rather risky, basketQuote:
Originally Posted by bluemovie
Most people would agree with all of this. I just don't understand the people who would prefer Fingal to go bust instead of being humbled and operating a scaled-back model like most other clubs.Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemovie
They've been answered time and time again. All of the clubs in Dublin, with the exception of Fingal, are sandwiched into a 5-mile-or-so radius of heavily urbanised land in South Dublin and Dublin City. Until recently there were no senior clubs in West or North Co. Dublin which are, coincidentally, the two fastest-growing parts of the city/country.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinney
Fingal's support has remained small because a) they're a new club and b) Irish people rarely support their local teams and when they do it's usually because their parents did. It has nothing to do with geography.
spudulika - It take a hell of a lot of provocation (or booze) to get me to post on here but your smugness and condescension are almost without parallel on the entire internet.
But what really grates is that these attractive traits are thrown into stark relief by the fact that you are also materially incorrect in almost all your posts.
Apologies to the rest of you for the interruption, carry on.
KOH
"I heard back in 2000, it was in our national media, whether it was better for one team in Louth. Two senior league sides were too many. I thought then it smacked of ignorance and lack of information and ambition. At the time Dundalk were the junior partner" - posted by Spudulika
The reason Dundalk were the junior partner in Louth was 2 fold. The first reason we had no money and had got relegated and secondly the main reason why we were so far behind our neighbours to the south was because they were spending sh*t loads of cash that they didn't have in order that their business owners could make bags of cash by selling houses in a rezoned piece of land.
Now look what happened. We are run like a business (we had land that we were able to sell at our biggest cash crisis point and Drogheda have experienced Examinership were their creditors got sh*g all back and now the club is close to folding.
Morton to Tolka is one of the shortest distances between grounds in the league (Dalymount to Tolka is closer I think but that's all). Tallaght and Belfield are much more isolated from other grounds than Santry. If they'd built the much talked about ground in Lusk, you'd have a point but Santry is hardly a new area for a team. Not to mention that Fingal were/are going to share Dalymount this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
There's a fair chance, that within 5-10 years Pats will be the only team operaring within Dublin City Council's area
Well, Dalyer and Tolka are both sold. We're DLR and Rovers are South County. Not that bold a statement.
Spudulika really I don't need debating lessons. But I'll give you a few debating tips (sorry to other posters): Firstly stay on the topic, you're going of course by bringing up new topics in many of your posts, like one team in Louth has little to do with this (I heard this debate before Louth Wanderers, etc, are you referring to that there is to many teams in Louth and this is similar to Dublin, if so make this more clear). My second tip, stop attacking other debaters phrases and reverting to people as "ignorant" and "such fans", this don't bide well and shows that its more of personal thing than trying to make valid points with regards to the topic. Thirdly, make some valid points with regards to the threads topic because I really don't know what the point is you’re trying to make. So far I've gathered we should look at our own clubs before we point the finger at other clubs and people should stop having such a blinkered view when it comes to the league as a whole - valid point in their own right but this topic is about Sporting Fingal and their inadequacies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudulika
For the record there is nothing ‘ignorant’ or ‘blinkered’ in my view, I’ve said consistently (you will claim otherwise?) that I don’t know how Fingal are funding their club since Gannon was involved with NAMA and eventually pulled out of the franchise. Personally I don’t think the LOI needs another club coming in with wreckless spending - we have enough clubs already at this but the difference is these other clubs have history, tradition & most have a decent fan base (I admit still don’t make it right). If Fingal stayed within their means there would be no problem but they didn’t, all signs show that they have every chance of going boom to bust similar to what happened to Dublin City. I don’t like clubs in this league going into financial difficulties (Fingal included) but really for Fingal it was all in their own making and for that reason its hard to feel sorry for them.
I find the hostility on this board towards sporting fingal hard to understand.
Sporting fingal was founded as a club which **would** work at the grassroots level, working to build a fanbase and an identity in an area (north county dublin) which does have its own seperate identity to that of Bohs and shels northsiders.
Whether or not its good or bad luck that they got parachuted to the first division before they were ready is beside the point (although that was because of a different club collapsing).
As a sporting fingal fan i was almost glad we didnt get promoted the first year because we certainly would not have been ready for it then either.
Just because our footballing ability (ie winning FA cup, getting promoted playing in europe decently and qualifying for europe again) developed at a pace faster than its natural growth of a fanbase is not the clubs fault.
The association with the council was in an effort to build community ties, which it did, setting up fan clubs for kids in local schools, setting up futsal teams, special olympic football teams etc etc
The involvement of Gannon is unfortuanate and his problems obviously became ours.
Likewise in this climate it is understandable that one of our investors took a hit.
If anything Id say we are a victim of a series of unfortuanate events.
As a footballing community why are you rejoicing at the demise of yet another club which had its own identity with a fanbase, small as it is, who were supporting the LOI (and who wouldnt otherwise).
There is obviously major problems within the whole framework of this LOI and the FAI.
We should be coming together, supporting one and other and baying for a major overhaul of the current system.
It is a fair point that clubs like Cork and Shams were saved because of their fans.
But its not the individual clubs that need saving (this year alone we could lose 4), the whole damm thing is rotton and needs to be dismantled and put back together again properly (kind of like our political system).
yes, its great if bohs with their history survives or shams with their new stadium and fans but what does it matter if there is no real competition, no real league to speak of....
Sporting fingal's apparent demise is not something to rejoice in, its an example of everything that is wrong with our League, the fans that are in it, and the people running it.
People shouldnt be taking it as a chance to laugh and scorn but it should be a wake up call that things in our league or **** and we should do someting about it.
There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with fans of LOI clubs. To lump them all together as mere LOI fans, and then to suggest they have done anything to contribute to the current state of league is disingenous (and I'm being kind there...)Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky12345678
Apart from a handful of people moaning on the internet, please explain how fans of LOI clubs are "whats wrong with the league"
Are you having a laugh? Gannon was the only reason the club existed in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky12345678
I also think it'd be a good thing for the league to not have people involved who offer players - real people, like - contracts that they can only honour by some vague notions of investment and nothing else.
This improvement in footballing ability happened because you spent lots of money on players - it's not some kind of unexplainable occurence. If you hadn't spent the money, you wouldn't have been as good.Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky12345678
Again, I don't know how much of the club's money was directed to community-building, but according to a few posters of different clubs, real efforts were made. But any club is going to hit the rocks when a main sponsor/investor/financer pulls out, and with Fingal trying to maintain their style and quality of football (and spending money on players to do this), the low attendances was always going to cripple them.
Arf. Nothing to do with the €1m or so pumped in to sign good players it was just a coincidence was itQuote:
Just because our footballing ability (ie winning FA cup, getting promoted playing in europe decently and qualifying for europe again) developed at a pace faster than its natural growth of a fanbase is not the clubs fault.
And I hate comments like this - suggesting that the problems Fingal have encountered are somehow endemic to the league and not the fault of the club's set-up. We should do something about it? No, this particular problem is Fingal's and Fingal's alone, and no other club should do things differently purely because of your over-reliance on one individual.Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky12345678
Don't forget licensing.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Not sure where I stand on the licencing thing. There's nothing wrong with people putting money into clubs. I'd do the same if I could. They got through last season without a bother, which is what licencing is supposed to look out for. However, it's hard to see how you can justify a licence for the coming year given that they have set outgoings (contracts) and no incomings (sponsorship not happening at present). So if they get a licence for 2011, it'll be a joke. For now - hard though it may be to say it - I don't think licencing has failed here.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
Surely this could have been flagged weeks ago though when having preliminary meetings with clubs??
"Right, that's how much you plan spending on wages, how are you covering this outgoing?"
"Well, we have this fella who said he might give us a few bob in a few weeks"
"M'Kay............"
Four weeks to kick off and no one knows the story with Fingal, Bohs or Drogheda and to a lesser extent Galway.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the licencing process is a complete sham, whos only purpose is to provide the FAI with excuses to get rid of clubs if they see fit.
It's such a pity it's too late to nominate this for post of the month.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lep
So long as you feel good about yourself it's all that matters and I'm sure they're very proud of you. It's good you've moved on, if that helps, fair play. If you choose not to learn from making the mistake of digging, then that's your perogative. As I said, if you enjoy it, fair play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinney
Fair enough, but at least it was outside that fairly narrow triangle of LOI clubs and they were aimed at a part of Dublin that didn't have a "major" club. Even Malahide would have been a decent location. Doesn't look like any of it will matter now, mind you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Schumi
I have no hostility or affection towards SF, but having casually browsed this thread, a few observations/questions occur.Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky12345678
Was it? Or weren't all those things ancilliary to its main raison d'etre i.e. the setting-up of the club was an inducement to FCC to persuade it to permit Gannon to receive planning permission for a development which he hoped would make him rather more than he was sinking into SF?Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky12345678
Would tend to agree it should not be held against SF that they were parachuted etc. Imo, responsibility for that hasty decision can only rest with the FAI.Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky12345678
Was it really down to some sort of (inherent) "footballing ability"?Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky12345678
Or was it not actually down to the financial ability of Gannon to write cheques (to attract top players) which led to the team's success, thereby making it vulnerable the moment the cheques started to bounce?
Fair enough if all the other Community and Youth work etc were able to step up with home-grown players to replace the imported talent, but that does not seem to be the case.
No doubt that all that is highly admirable, but surely SF was not set up as some sort of "community project with a football team attached"? Was it not primarily meant to be a football club, which would incidentally also do valuable work in the community, the implication being that if the football club failed, then the community work would likely also end?Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky12345678
In which case, is FCC also not to be criticised for attaching their name and resources to a venture which was inherently unstable (esp since they were so involved in the creation of SF)?
How can you call it "unfortunate", almost as if his involvement was merely coincidental? Gannon effectively was SF, without him there would never have been an SF.Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky12345678
No doubt outside events contributed heavily towards SF's plight.Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky12345678
But do you consider that none of those events could not have been foreseen? Or even if unforeseeable, could not have been reacted to better?
And can you honestly claim that SF didn't also take wrong decisions which were solely down to the club itself and no-one else?
In what way were SF "supporting" the LOI?Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky12345678
Certainly they were participating in the League, but were they not taking out at least as much as they were putting back (eg by the "parachuting-in", at the expense of some other club, which you referred to earlier)?
No harm, but was anyone at SF saying that before the club started to go tits-up?Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky12345678
Surely those are the sorts of concerns Gannon and FCC should have been raising prior to committing so much to SF?
Fair point, except that permitting (arguably) fundamentally unsound clubs like SF to enter the League does not actually lead to greater "real competition" etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky12345678
Rather it merely allows the League to "paper over the cracks" and persuade itself that all is well for another bit.
Imo, when it comes to apportioning blame, first and foremost Gannon must be condemned for reckless speculation, with money he didn't actually have.Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky12345678
But the banks who lent him money they didn't have, for development schemes they didn't properly evaluate, must also take their share of the blame. Ditto the Government, for not regulating the banks properly.
Thereafter FCC must be held accountable for misuse of local public resources in allowing themselves to go along with such an ill-conceived scheme.
Finally, even if they cannot be held accountable for wrong decisions which were made outside their domain, the minute the FAI allowed SF into the League, presumably without asking many (any?) searching questions, it ceased to be solely society's problem and became a footballing problem.
All of which might be tolerable (just), if it was the above bodies who had to carry the can. Instead, Gannon will likely live his life out without having to experience any great hardship; the banks have already been bailed out; the faces in the new Government will likely be much the same as in the old, and FCC will just stick it onto the ratepayers and carry on pretty much as before. And within the FAI, I certainly don't see, or expect, any sign of Delaney and his cronies being forced to step aside.
In fact, the only people who will really suffer from all this will be those who have least culpability for it ever happening - the players and the fans.
Quite honestly, it is all a parable of the times that are in it, sad to say...
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This thread has become a bit of a Dundalk civil war!
My 2 cents worth - Fingal have, as others have previously, inflated the amounts of money demanded by available players by simply offering huge contracts. This in itself is not a problem if it can be afforded in a long term sustainable manner. Resentment occurs from other clubs and fans alike as it prices them out of the market for players that will ultimately compete! This is particularily hard to stomach by people involved with clubs that have lived with mediocrity, sacrificing short term success to maintain the existance of the club - Monaghan a prime example. Nobody has issue with new clubs entering the league eg Youths, why? cause they are building a sustainable entity. Indeed many fans would hail them as a beacon of how it should be done...should i say a model club!
Now I, as a Dundalk Fan, am only too aware of the follies of our past and how we flirted with our demise. It is arguable that we were reckless but alas survived, seemingly copped on, and are now not spending more than we can afford - removing the big spenders of Bohs and Fingal, that could still have us 4 or so on players budget. I certainly hope that seemingly endless signings for both rovers is that these clubs have, based on past experience, shows evidence of progression rather than anything else. I hope that we continue as we are and in due course will be in a similar state of play.
Spud - i see where you are coming from, but i also see guinneys points too in fairness