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Originally Posted by elroy
hmmmm have you ever played the game?
maybe i'm biased as I play the game.
I've played soccer, gaa and hurling (and even a little bit of rugby) and by all accounts was a better gaa player than either of the other sports but there is absolultely nothing on earth like the battle and skill of a good game of hurling.
Played both gaa codes for several years. For me always preferred playing football, even though I actually was decent at hurling. What irks me is the hurling lads who try to justify the fact that very few counties in Ireland are strong at the game by saying that anyone can pick up a football and be able to play but hurling is far more skillful you cant do the same with hurling. Personally I disagree, like all sports it takes time to learn aspects of the game and each has it skill requirements. Does hurling demand more skill and fitness than football/soccer/rugby? Not in my eyes (although ive only ever played one game of rugby). For sheer skill of thought, soccer trumps it for me. Much harder beat a man one on one in soccer when all you can really use is your feet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
On ydays match, got quite wound up watching the match (playing the french helped!) which surprised me because I was fairly apathetic towards it at the start - perhaps due to the fact I didnt give us a chance. It was a good performance but an opportunity lost in my eyes, yet the media reaction to the performance will be positive, one of a strong performance etc etc. In fairness to George Hook on RTE he was asking the right question last night, how could Ireland play like they did yday only to have played so below par against Wales a few weeks ago and dare I say it likely to play below par next week as well.
Yes, most certainly. It's a tiny ball, ya have a stick in your hand, ya have a fella coming at you with a stick and on top of that you have to sort out your feet and speed. I definitely think it's the most skillful of all the games. Mainly based on speed and reactions. I know very few hurlers that can't play football (soccer or GAA ) but know many footballers who can't play hurling.Quote:
Originally Posted by elroy
That said, all sports are different and some people suit some sports more than others.
Regarding yesterday's rugby match I thought it was a great game and probably a draw was a fair result. Rob Kearney was sublime! Great to see us stick it up to the French in Paris (bit like Nov 2009 but we won't go into that ;) )
With this in mind, couldn't the Kilkenny hurling fraternity use, oh I don't know, football matches against other counties as a way to keep up their own fitness :sinister:Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
Not sure if it was posted already but total viewership figures for the most popular RTE broadcasts in 2011 are here: http://www.rte.ie/mediasales/televis...rogrammes.html
Telling that Ireland/Estonia ranked only #8 out of sporting events, even behind a Rugby match at 9am and a Six Nations game on little consequence as we were out at that stage. Both Football finals (Mayo/Kerry, Dublin/Donegal) were ranked either side of the top playoff, as well as the Hurling and Football final taking top two slots. The only event not involving an Irish team to make the top 20 was the RWC Final, no sign of the champions league.
The representation for the top 20 is:
Rugby: 7
Soccer: 5
Football: 4
Hurling: 4
Hurling and Football continue to be more event driven, although both finals are the biggest and most watched events. Rugby is outdoing soccer in both quantity of representation and peak attendance. Insignificant rugby matches are out-drawing very significant soccer matches, and even the early morning starts for the RWC didn't put off a lot of the audience. There's even a provincial game making the top 20 so the popularity really is right through the levels of the game.
Still I think we're a sporting country and there's more than enough room for 4 major games, the states have as many. Soccer isn't the top dog anymore but it's keeping itself relevant and Euro 2012 will help that. I wouldn't say its decline in popularity is the crisis that Dunphy seems to believe.
One thing that appeals to me about soccer over GAA and rugby is the spatial awareness required to play it properly. In rugby you always have the option of just taking the tackle and you never have to look too far for a pass option, not to mention that you rarely have to "watch your house". In GAA you always have the option - more often than not the preferred option - of just lumping it. OK, there's always the pass back in soccer but in my view to be a gifted playmaker in soccer takes more than to be a gifted out half in rugby.
Did the media latch onto Cian Healy's "lazy retreat" or whatever it's called with the same sense of self loathing that met Simon Cox's handball appeal when the Armenian GK handled the ball? OK, even I'm feeling a bit paranoid here, but I think it's kind of valid!
The rugby on Sunday reminded me of the 2-2 draw in Amsterdam in Sept 2000. A good lead squandered and by the end you're glad of the draw.
I'm surprised nobody has put this up here before (unless I missed it).
Irish Times, December 21st 2011
Soccer proves popular but BOD reigns supreme
IT’S OFFICIAL. Brian O’Driscoll – by a whisker – is deemed Ireland’s current “greatest” sports star; Stephen Cluxton’s last-gasp point to win the All-Ireland football title for Dublin is considered the most “iconic” sporting moment of 2011; and the Republic of Ireland’s qualification for the Euro 2012 finals has been found to be the “greatest achievement” of the past year.
Yet, while a comprehensive new survey has found soccer retains its position as the most popular sport, only Robbie Keane has managed to make it into the top-five (and only barely so!) in the list of greatest current sports stars behind O’Driscoll, Rory McIlroy, Katie Taylor and Ronan O’Gara.
What does it all mean?
Well, the survey – conducted earlier this month amongst a nationally representative sample in the Republic by research agency AskChili, on behalf of Dublin-based Pembroke Communications – provides an intriguing insight into the sporting sentiments of the public, affirming that almost 80 per cent of the adult population have a genuine interest in sport.
Interestingly, while soccer is the most popular sport with 30.9 per cent claiming it to be their favourite sport (with Gaelic Games on 20.9 per cent and rugby on 20.5 per cent) and Ireland’s feat in qualifying for next year’s European Championship finals is rated as the greatest achievement, it would seem that it is the team’s achievement as a whole rather than individuals who have captured our hearts and minds.
Indeed, O’Driscoll is considered Ireland’s greatest current sports star. But only just. BOD got the thumbs-up from 16.7 per cent of those surveyed, just ahead of US Open champion McIlroy who got 16.3 per cent.
Considering the survey was conducted in the 26 counties, McIlroy’s high rating emphasises his wide appeal.
Boxer Taylor placed third (on 13.1 per cent) behind the big two of O’Driscoll and McIlroy, providing further indication of how she has managed to infiltrate the national consciousness. Among sportswomen alone, though, Taylor’s star rises even further – almost 50 per cent of those surveyed, men and women, ranked her as the female athlete most admired in a very competitive field that includes Derval O’Rourke, swimmer Gráinne Murphy and jockey Nina Carberry.
Not surprisingly, given the parochial nature of following a county team, GAA players don’t figure as highly when ranked against those playing international sports. Dublin forward Bernard Brogan, at three per cent, was the top Gaelic footballer in the category headed by O’Driscoll. Kilkenny’s Henry Shefflin was the top hurler with 2.8 per cent.
Although the indigenous nature of Gaelic Games presents a great challenge when put against the international exposure enjoyed by soccer and rugby, Dublin goalkeeper Cluxton’s injury-time point in the All-Ireland final against Kerry was deemed the most iconic sporting moment.
Cluxton’s late free-kick was chosen by 20.3 per cent of those surveyed, ahead of the 17.3 per cent who chose Darren Clarke’s winning putt at the British Open and the 13.7 per cent who selected McIlroy’s final round collapse at the US Masters.
There is also evidence in the survey that sports followers have broad interests.
When asked to nominate a favourite sport, 30.9 per cent put soccer as their number one. However, when asked what sports they were interested in or liked, this number jumped to 56.5 per cent.
Ireland’s successful qualification for Euro 2012 was rated the best achievement by 23.7 per cent, followed by Ireland’s group win over Australia in the Rugby World Cup (13.9 per cent), McIlroy’s US Open win at Congressional (10.2 per cent) and Dublin winning the Sam Maguire (9.4 per cent, which rose to 20 per cent for those living in the capital).
While soccer remains the most popular sport overall, it is interesting to note that Gaelic games (27.9 per cent) are actually the most popular among women – ahead of rugby on 22.9 per cent – which may be attributed to the belief that GAA and rugby attendances are more family orientated.
Still, Giovanni Trapattoni’s men will inspire most expectations going into the new sporting year.
In the survey, 30.7 per cent claimed that the Uefa finals was the most eagerly anticipated sporting event in 2012 with the Olympic Games in London getting 27.3 per cent.
These two major sporting competitions ranked well ahead of everything else, with the Ryder Cup – in Chicago – getting a meagre 3.2 per cent vote
GAA still rules with gold, silver and shares the bronze, who cares about the rest.
Those figures do look a bit questionable, the (WC rugby) Ireland v Italy had 15% more viewers than Ireland v Wales.
When I read your remarks first I thought 'fair enough'. Then I opened the link and couldn't help feel that you've put quite a bit of spin on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
"even behind a rugby match at 9am" - yep, an important World Cup match that would determine whether or not we won our group.
"a 6 Nations game of little consequence" - except that it was against England, the highlight of most Irish rugby fans' calendars, and weren't we trying to stop their Grand Slam attempt? That was a big, big game by anyone's definition.
"even a provincial match" - the Magners League FINAL, between arguably the two biggest franchises in European rugby, both Irish and huge rivals!
Ireland played the glamour teams Macedonia, Armenia and Estonia by comparison. The % share of the total audience in the away match in Tallinn I would hazard a guess was relatively low (46% was it?) because of wives wanting to watch the Late Late on a Friday, whereas the % share for early morning rugger games was because there is eff all else on early in the morning, except for Peppa Pig.
I agree with your last paragraph to an extent, but I'd ask anyone here: if Old Trafford was burnt down and Man United moved to Dublin for a year, does anyone think that Leinster rugby would sell more tickets?
I agree with Geysir that it's bizarre that IRL v Italy got more viewers than IRL v Wales.
It would be interesting to see how the survey data compares to the Nielsen figures.
What are the Neilsen figures?
Now that I think about it, the Ireland Wales game was played at 5 or 6 am.
heres another list
1 All-Ireland football final, Dublin v Kerry, September 18th: 1,085,200
2 All-Ireland hurling final, Kilkenny v Tipperary, September 4th: 847,000
3 All-Ireland football semi-final, Dublin v Donegal, August 28th: 700,500
4 Six Nations, Ireland v England, March 19th: 690,400
5 Euro 2012 play-off, Republic of Ireland v Estonia, November 15th: 649,000
6 Rugby World Cup, Ireland v Italy, October 2nd: 631,600
7 Euro 2012 play-off, Estonia v Republic of Ireland, November 11th: 599,500
8 All-Ireland Football semi-final, Kerry v Mayo, August 21st: 569,300
9 Rugby World Cup, Australia v Ireland, September 17th: 545,600
10 Six Nations, Ireland v France, February 13th: 544,100
Probably Dublin in any AI final is thee top game in Irish sport, the rest of the country tunes in to cheer on the other team
Those sports figures are for Men aged 15+ whilst the other figures are total audiences. I think there may be slightly more parity in the proper overall figures.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Interestingly the Friday night before Ireland-Wales was the game against Andorra in Andorra. I would say that that coupled with the fact that I knew a fair few people on the batter (such as myself) on that Friday could be a reason why less watched the Welsh game. Town, Dún Laoghaire and Bray were wedged that night.
The ones that are reported directly from the tellybox unit in a representative sample of homes - it's where the official audience share stats come from. I'd have thought they'd have been released by now, or maybe just nobody's analysed them.
It does also help that there's a 1.5 million Dubs as well!Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Just have to agree to disagree on this, every entitled to their opinion. For me the fact u are restricted in football makes it a more technical game. In hurling, its easier to score, u have full use of ur arms and feet etc. Many people don't play hurling because it isn't as widespread or the main game at their club, a lot depends where u come from. Where Im from in cork the focus always was on football at our club, that wasn't because we could or could not play hurling, it was because success is measured in football terms not hurling. Its ironic that the gaa often goes on about the need to develop hurling, one of the greatest obstacles to this is their own clubs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
As for viewer ship figures, its been a good couple of yrs for the gaa with kk v tipp hurling finals and dubs doing well in football. This things often go in cycles but the Irish football team tend to have consistent pulling power. Even in rugby grand slam year it was no 1. The unattractive group this time round didn't help but there is little doubt qualification has generated a much needed general public interest and anticipation. Little doubt what will be no 1 this year
Interesting discussion on NewsTalk earlier about the France game at the weekend. Both the host, and studio pundit Shane Horgan praised Paul O'Connell for discussing Cian Healy's potential yellow card with the ref and changing his mind not to send Healy to the sin bin. Remind me of that the next time a rugby journalist criticises Robbie Keane for protesting to the ref for a tackle.
If that was the Ireland soccer captain he would have rioted.
The RTE figures don't show the true figures for soccer in the country in my opinion, a lot of Irish people will watch matches on Sky Sports. I'm sure most will watch on RTE but a large amount probably watch on Sky while the gah is only on RTE and I'd imagine few will watch rugby on BBC or whatever channel show it
Heard the programme alright, the way they were talking ud swear we hammered France. Little mention of such a lead given away, no score in the 2nd half and the very poor line out. Maybe it simply is a case of how close the pundits are to the players but I find their analysis bizarre, particularly compared to football or Gaa. Whenever there is criticism, its usually tactically related rather than individual.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Print journalists were a lot more scathing of the second half performance, to be fair. There's very little somebody like Horgan or Quinlan can say that would be too harsh, especially Horgan since he still has to play with half the team.
In today's Irish Times - the GAA once again stealing a march by putting its money where its mouth is:
GAA to build hurling and camogie centre at WIT
GAA president Christy Cooney has unveiled plans for a GAA national hurling and camogie development centre at Waterford Institute of Technology, saying it will prove a major benefit in helping the expansion and promotion of hurling and camogie.
The centre will be located at the WIT sports campus at Carriganore. It will include elite fitness suites and laboratories as well as indoor and outdoor pitches when it is completed at the end of the year on foot of an investment of over €18 million....
(http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...312851941.html)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eminence Grise
As a hurling man foremost this was a stupid place to put this centre.
It should have been further up the country. Waterford already border Cork, Tipp, KK, none of whom need this kind of centre as they already have it in place with CIT, Dr Morris Park and Nowlan Park respectively.
Admittedly it's also near Wexford, who have fallen back a lot, and Carlow, who are making great strides, but it should have been placed near Laois/Kildare where it could help development of the game in those two counties along with Meath/Westmeath/Wicklow/Carlow. Counties with far more need of development than the big three and all with realistic potential of playing a much higher standard.
My two cents, on the wrong forum :D.
Noted - but you're selling yourself awfully cheap!:DQuote:
Originally Posted by OMTY
I agree that it probably needed to be elsewhere to help hurling spread, but the fact that WIT has a Department of Health, Sport and Exercise Science might have been a more important factor in its location.
Ya, they already had the infrastructure in place alright.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eminence Grise
On the wider debate. Many county boards have facilities that the FAI can only dream of.
Has anyone seen the development in Tyrone? Funding from both the GAA and the NI Sports Dept:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_bJ_...eature=related
Pretty incredible really.
We can but dream alright...
Thats no great surprise. Unfortunately (a) the gaa has traditionally been run far better and (b) it receives greater levels of funding both at government and local level to enable these developments.Quote:
Originally Posted by OMTY
On the WIT academy, surely it this works it would benefit not just Waterford people but all those who attend the college, which Im sure have a much wider spread than just waterford. Perhaps its the pessism in me but I find it hard to accept that any unestablished county will make a breakthrough in hurling in the next 20 years. For one, it does not have the tradition and the only county that has suggested it may do so are Dublin and looks at the amount of money and resources thrown at them - yet a certain number of its senior players arent even from Dublin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroy
A certain number may not be Dublin natives but sure what of it? If we had a whole team made up of KK and Tipp rejects then I would be concerned but the likes of Maurice O'Brien and Niall Corcoran playing for the team surrounded by natives hardly makes it something that is worth getting knickers in a twist over.
The Indo's Eamon Sweeney having a pop at rugby's recent uppetyness here in an article titled "A better class of arrogance".
It fits my world view stated here before about rugby being a bit too pleased with itself over its rise in popularity and prominence. What do others think?
It's a bit of a huge straw man, to be honest, based entirely around a few lines in an IRFU report. Those things are designed to be self-aggrandising. If he wanted to make a coherent argument there are plenty of public comments from ex-players, coaches etc. to make it for him.
i think rugby and the IRFU should be proud of its accomplishments. They were a laughing stock 15 years ago and the game was in a rapid decline. If the footie and GAA equivalents carried themselves with the same level of professionalism, had a more solid vision and operated with more transparency over the years, they would be in a better state than they are currently and far more respected by the general public.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I think it's unfair to throw the GAA in there. The FAI are the laughing stock of sport in this country.
they are the epitomy of parochialism though Bonnie. They deserve a mention. Though i agree the FAI are worthy winners in the incompetence stakes.
Parochialism is not in question. It's professionalism. The GAA do a lot well. A lot ham-fisted but they in fairness are an incredible organisation.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
I'd agree with you and I think the IRFU do an amazing job too. The FAI have certainly improved on many of the incompetencies of the past, but there is still room for improvement. Living in Australia the success of our rugby team and international rules teams certainly make you feel proud. Aussies find it hard to accept that the GAA players are amateurs such is their fitnesss levels and that we can produce such successful teams in different codes given our small population.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
Seriously?!? That barely registers in Oz. The only ones who give a fcuk about the international rules are the Irish. Plus in large parts of Oz, it is rugby league that matters most to them rather than union.Quote:
Originally Posted by gastric
I am proud to see all Irish team and sportspeople do well but the one sport in which I want to see our teams do well most of all is football. I think that is because it is truly a global game, global tournaments. Very few sports, with the exception of olympics have such a vast global appeal and audience.
He didn't say everybody watches it. He said the people who watch it are amazed by the amateur players' fitness levels.
Im not denying that, I suppose my point is that I find it hard to be proud of such a 'game' that barely registers in the mindset of the general public of our opposition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
In a gaa sense, personally would be more proud when foreigners come to gaa games here and admire the games that are our own, rather than any results our compromise rules teams may achieve.
Of course the IRFU deserves credit and the FAI needs to be more transparent, but that's a given that anyone would have granted right at the start of this thread.
It'd be interesting to know what the FAI would have done faced with the opportunity of entering a franchise team (or beefed up existing club) with into new cross border league and automatic entry a fledgling European wide competition with only a handful of countries participating though. There were no Bayern Munichs, AC Milans, Barcelonas or existing structures for the IRFU to contend with - so to a certain extent you can't cite the provincial teams' success in Europe as evidence that the IRFU is better organised hands down than the FAI. There is no shortage of volunteers in football for example, and all the good work that the IRFU does in the community is at least matched by the other codes. The flipside to the provincial franchise success is that - so I'm told but have no evidence to back it up - that the AIL clubs have been disadvantaged by quite a large degree.
And what success has this rugby team actually had? I believe the Golden Generation has woefully underdelivered in green - not at club level obviously.
But none of this is really the point. Sweeney is supporting my view that there is a degree of hypocrisy around the "values" aspect of how rugby promotes itself, and how rugby is quick to look down its noses at other sports' weaknesses as if it's free of the same issues. My view has been that this has been propogated by some of the fans (including my friends) and parts of the media. In fact Sweeney says he'd have dismissed my view as being either paranoid or that it's only a few in the rugby community. Sweeney was also quick to point out that the rugby team themselves are well rounded and appreciative of other codes. However, Sweeney's point is that on this occasion it's the IRFU itself that is promoting this guff in its annual report.
Now, in fairness, I've long given up on annual reports. Half of them are written by PR firms saying how wonderful, for example, an arms exporter is with promoting minorities in the workplace with a picture of a kid from a minority background walking through a field of sunflowers, while the accompanying numbers are incomprehensible due to modern accounting rules. But guff it is from the IRFU nonetheless, and it's out there, which is why I've been less enthusiastic about the team than I was up, to say, 2009. After this I've been annoyed by the constant drip feed of sly digs at football from many quarters as if one is good and the other is bad. There's good and bad in both.
This is true, which is the reason why some people in Ireland still have an awkward relationship with "foreign sports" like cricket and rugby (obviously much less so now). My father is a GAA man first and foremost and, growing up, I'd have played more GAA than football under his influence, but it is the truly international dimension of football that appeals to me. Parochial rivalries don't really do it for me, especially as I'm not sure I do have a real affinity with any solitary county "identity", as it were; I have a Tyrone-father, a Roscommon-mother and am Donegal-born myself with Derry having been the significant sphere of influence for the second decade of my life. In saying that, I've thoroughly enjoyed any Tyrone GAA games to which my father has brought me and the prospect of supporting Derry against Donegal in GAA would never cross my mind despite my latter support for Derry City in football superseding the earlier support for Finn Harps of my pre-adolescence days.Quote:
Originally Posted by elroy
Just on rugby and cricket relative to football, briefly, the reach, popularity and centres of dominance of both these games are, by and large, limited to the confines of the Commonwealth/former British Empire (rugby; slightly less so again as the game's popularity spreads in a self-affirming manner with France, Italy and Argentina posing the most significant exceptions to the trend), whereas football can truly be viewed as universal. Despite being as much an English/British game at root as cricket or rugby, football is played in every corner of the globe and by all sectors of society, so furthermore does not carry the baggage of social class that will see some scoff at rugby as "elitist". Whether this was in spite of or because of football's more humble, working class and therefore accessible roots, I'm not so sure.
I enjoy watching rugby purely as a sport, but it just doesn't stir the emotions in me like football can. I don't really connect with the whole rugby thing on a social level either. It was never my sport growing up; perhaps for semi-cultural reasons. It was always viewed as a middle-class Protestant game in the north so I didn't really encounter it (not necessarily out of choice; I didn't encounter lacrosse or ice hockey for similar reasons, for example), unless it was being shunned in discussion by my peers. I'd be reluctant to appear to be hopping on a bandwagon and I similarly observe the self-satisfaction and smugness of supposed maturity in Irish rugby to which Stutts has alluded. Whether I'm right or wrong, or simply generalising wildly, I'm not so sure the social dynamic behind the game in Ireland has yet to shed certain traits that could be very easily perceived as elitist. Maybe it's me who is erecting sub-conscious barriers, but there is a restraint of sorts nevertheless in that I wouldn't feel entirely or wholeheartedly enthusiastic about roaring on the national rugby side to a Grand Slam. No other sport could reduce me to tears like football can (or is that the alcohol?!).
I'm sure I've recounted on here before the amusing anecdote of the lad in my class back in St. Columb's College in Derry who had his mother write a note on his behalf to our PE teacher in order to excuse him from that week's session as it had been announced we'd be doing rugby and the lad, of course, staunchly objected to playing "foreign games". The college sought to introduce the pupils to lesser-played games every now and again but, sure enough, my classmate sat out PE in protest with the pointlessness of his statement providing great amusement for the rest of the class. The contradiction of his stance was not lost on the rest either; indeed, he was back playing indoor football the very next week, just like he'd done virtually every other week prior to his protest.