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Originally Posted by Another Bohemia
Its a fair point. Dundalk were blessed to have the likes of David McMillian, Patrick McEleney, Pat Hoban and Stephen O'Donnell, who were all at the proverbial ceilings of their careers.
Still doesnt change the fact that it is there were the biggest difference between LOI and leagues above us are.
Absolutely I just think that gulf between us and the leagues above us also exists for those leagues and the leagues above them. The best talent is being funnelled to the top leagues a lot quicker than it used to be. Like Henrick Larsson won a golden show while playing at Celtic and didn't get a big money move to a top 5 league until 2/3 seasons later. I don't think stuff like that will happen any more unfortunately. Even looking at this Bohs team now Dawson Devoy has a great half season(at least I see it as a great half season) and there's already talk of Bundesliga 2 teams being in for him. Your young lb going over to Brighton is another example he's played about a season of men's football all in and will be your record transfer fee. I can't see how that gulf in class can easily be closed when it's so difficult to hold on to good players, never mind great players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiki Balboa
For sure, there is a pecking order in football, and there is going to be gaps in skill in players between the different levels.Quote:
Originally Posted by Another Bohemia
I was just raising the point that:
1. Other leagues similar to ours seem to be able to produce more potent attacking play (nothing scientific about that, just my feeling from watching football).
2. We are able to compete with levels above us in terms of general play.
There is always going to be holes in our game compared to other leagues. No harm in pointing them out though. Especially as maybe it is something permeating through our whole football culture (ie. what we put emphasis on and dont put enough on when developing players).
Lack of pace is undoubtedly a problem - but often players have pace and no skill or the other way around. Strikers are a highly coveted commodity and teams will way overpay to take a chance on one that is half decent. Any decent striker that pops up will be sniped very quickly and a majority of the transfers out of the LOI abroad involve strikers. The fact that someone like Frantz Pierrot chose to move to Bosnia after last season and is now with an Israeli second division team (that is noted for far-right and racist attitudes among its fan base shows the problem that exists.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiki Balboa
Example of the competition - Shamrock Rovers are playing St. Joseph's tonight. St. Joseph's are owned by former Burnley owner Mike Garlick (who also owns a club over the border in Andalusia in the Spanish third division). They have an average attendance of about 550. They are not full-time professional but can attract quality players from Andalusia many of whom have previously played professional football in the Spanish second and third divisions and they can pay them very good part-time money. In the last year that accounts have been published, 2023, St Joseph's ran up over £550K in losses. This was on top of the club suffering a major financial collapse in 2022 leading to Garlick buying the club - and St. Joseph's have been in European football every year for the past ten years bar one. There is no way that they should be able to compete with clubs in the LOI - but they can because of a combination of money being thrown at them, European money and a pool of good players who want to play part-time (and have European football). In the last couple of years the Magpies have beaten Crusaders, drawn with Dundalk and last season knocked out Derry - St. Joseph's have knocked out Larne and drawn with Shelbourne who were rather lucky to beat them in the second leg - and the Red Imps beat Larne last season (I am including the Northern clubs because they face a similar problem as the LOI).
Irish clubs have the opposite problem - the attraction of English football and far more money in the lower leagues in England than is available in the LOI. Example - a micky mouse competition - the National League Cup involves NL teams and PL2 teams - the NL clubs get £10K for participating, for group games they get £8 for a win and £4 for draws, £15K for a knockout round win and the winners receive £60K with the runners-up getting £30K. Last season Sutton United lost in the final to Leeds U21s - they netted £100K in prizemoney for seven games (excluding gate receipts - attendances averaged about 1,200). Winning the FA Trophy (exclusively between non-league teams) can net the winners up to (or over) £500K between prize money, share of gate receipts from Wembley and TV money. NL teams enter at the third round stage of the FA trophy and winning a game at that stage nets £4.5K in prizemoney. NL clubs also receive 'solidarity' payments from the PL (I think about £100K). Getting to the FA cup third round (about 3 non-league teams do on average each year) is worth about £200K in prize money alone - not accounting for gate receipts (evenly divided between both teams) - and another £100K TV money if the game is televised. It is not uncommon for NL teams to have a turnover of £4m+ a year (Wrexham had a turnover of £7m the last year they were in the NL). Part-time players in the NL (last season five clubs were part-time) get paid about £600 a week.
So - after my little ramble - LOI clubs are not competing in Europe on a level playing field. Many clubs from smaller European countries have distinct advantages over the Irish clubs and Irish clubs have distinct disadvantages that are not necessarily faced by other clubs. On top of that Ireland is second in Europe for cost of living and this, with the housing crisis, contributes significantly to problems getting players to stay or come to play in the LOI. Strikers who have pace, a bit of skill and an ability to score in the LOI are like gold dust and when you find one chances are he will be gone to pastures new after a season. What you hope for is getting €1m+ in a transfer fee like St. Pats are getting for Melia (and a sell-on clause as well).
Rovers deservedly 1-0 up. Gaffney calmly lifting it over the keeper on a one on one.
i cannt get the stream working on one football...anyone got one
You have to download the app, Its a pain in the bum..
Finding it hard to watch the Rovers game due to the complete lack of atnosphere there. Did many supporters travel over for it?
Rovers could do with a second in the first half to sow up the victory. I'd imagine the standard of play might deteriorate in the second half in that heat.
It says it is only 24c today. They’ve probably played in hotter and more humid conditions in recent years.Quote:
Originally Posted by yurt
Same here, was expecting a bit of spice given the Shels game last year but either they've turned the mics down or it's as dead as it looksQuote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
St. Joseph's have feck all fans and probably not as many Rovers fans have made the trip over this year at short notice compared to Shels last year with their first European trip in 18 years, I would imagine many Rovers fans were planning to be in Solitude tonight
Kauno Zalgiris with a goal against Valur just now in front of a huge crowd by their standards.
3-0 now. Puts Shels and Derry's struggles in Gibraltar last year into context. Or maybe Rovers just don't have the runway as a distraction :p
Edit - 4-0. Must be getting on for a record LoI away win? I think there's been a couple of 4-0s. Derry v Aberystwth and maybe Rovers v Fram back in the day? Anything bigger?
Mics are definitely turned down. You can see there’s a crowd there when the ball is in the corners.
Rovers 3 up. Edit: 4-0
I see Ilves (the team with the best crest) are 4-2 up against Alkmaar. Bit of a surprise.
4-0 now. Tbf it’s not a 4-0 game at all, not even a 3-0 game. Rovers deserve to be ahead all right but St Joseph’s aren’t terrible. Game was quite even until they got the second with a massive slice of luck with the deflection.
Jeez - I switched over for literally 10mins as it was boring me :D:oQuote:
Originally Posted by ger121
Just to answer my own question - how could I forget about Gretna 1-5 Derry, and the foot.ie legend that w SuperGretna, who vanished shortly after :DQuote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Derry beat Aberystwyth 4-0 at home but 5-0 away so that's the record. Rovers did beat Fram 4-0 away, and Sligo beat Banga 4-0 away in 2015. They're back in Europe for the first time since then tonight, 4-0 and a man down in Trondheim
Rovers have a squad that takes the "finishers" concept familiar in rugby and applied it all season.
Players who are good enough to start, and know they're good enough to start ,come on after 60/70 minutes and always make an impact against tiring teams.
Comfortable enough but bigger and better teams await.