Declan Rice

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Originally Posted by Cathalsmart

That’s the FA though, they love helping little England as much as they can whereas they don’t seem to give a flying F if they screw us and Scotland over. Either Declan Rice is a far better prospect than the likes of Ampadu, Brooks, Woodburn etc or the English FA are prioritizing taking our lads.

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Brooks was player of the tournament at the under 20 Toulon tournament for England so he was on a track to the senior side. He's also been outstanding for Bournemouth this season so I'd say he's as much of a prospect as Rice. Ampadu is younger than Rice but might not be far off. Could he get time in the West Ham side? Very probably. Woodburn has stalled slightly but he burst onto the scene so surely the FA's ears would have *****ed.

Theyre utterly screwing us on Rice by going after him with senior caps for us. But we would do the same, so it's hard to argue, even if our circumstances are different from their's.

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Originally Posted by Olé Olé

Theyre utterly screwing us on Rice by going after him with senior caps for us. But we would do the same, so it's hard to argue, even if our circumstances are different from their's.

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cant ever blame the FAs unless they make false promises to the player to entice them. its totally up to the player to decide who they want to play for

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

You could say the same about us and the IFA in fairness

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I disagree, we don't approach any players in the Northern Ireland setup to declare for the Republic, the FAI just make them aware that if they want to switch allegiances, they are open to being contacted. I don't know if there's any player from the North who was contacted by the FAI to switch - I'm not saying there isn't any player, just that I don't know if there is.

Rice was approached by the English FA, their manager spoke to him, and his chairman has stated he wants Rice to be a future England captain.

Similar circumstances, granted, but very different details.

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Originally Posted by Olé Olé

Nathan Redmond perhaps another good example.

Off The Ball AM had an interesting debate the other morning about who was the last Ireland player that England would have picked i.e. since the days of Lawro, Aldo and Townsend. I found they were very biased towards their own analysts in Kevin Kilbane's and Gary Breen in saying they may have earned England caps. They used Trevor Sinclair at the 2002 World Cup as an example of someone Kilbane would have got in ahead of. Sinclair had a little more guile than Killer. I think they got a bit carried away on Breen too. Richard Shaw didn't get any England caps while playing beside Breen for Coventry.

It's a funny one when you look at the Wales squad and see Woodburn, Brooks and Ampadu who could very conceivably have earned caps for England.

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I really like the two lads but re ‘ getting caps for England ‘ I don’t think Gary Breen was as good as the English options around at the time . Killer Kilbane was probably not good enough either . Might as well be honest about it .

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

I really like the two lads but re ‘ getting caps for England ‘ I don’t think Gary Breen was as good as the English options around at the time . Killer Kilbane was probably not good enough either . Might as well be honest about it .

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not sure about that tbh. kilbanes form around wc 2002 qualifying was excellent and england struggled with LM for a few years around that time. I think emile heskey played there at times for england..... i think kilbane would have been a far more natural fit than heskey for that position

I suggesed Ciaran Clark on twitter as the last player than would have played for England. Played at every level up to under 20, and captained the under 20 side. But the Daily Star's Kieran Cunningham (who started the debate) "doubted it very much"
And that was the end of that. Well, according to him anyway.

I personally wouldn't want Nathan Redmond on board, he has played for England and regardless of the rules, its just not right

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

not sure about that tbh. kilbanes form around wc 2002 qualifying was excellent and england struggled with LM for a few years around that time. I think emile heskey played there at times for england..... i think kilbane would have been a far more natural fit than heskey for that position

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They definitely had serious problems with left sided players there for awhile alright . Maybe I am wrong . Killers final ball was a bit iffy .

The Zenidine Kilbane period was epic there for awhile . Killer would never have played well for England anyway . His heart wouldn’t have been in it !

Fantastic guy , always turned up for Ireland no matter even if things were sticky for him at club level .

We were very lucky to have him .

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

the point was that is you scratch beneath the surface I don't believe there's a whole lot of substance to Southgates Englands recent form

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i wish Ireland lacked half as much substance as England do right now.

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Originally Posted by Olé Olé

Off The Ball AM had an interesting debate the other morning about who was the last Ireland player that England would have picked i.e. since the days of Lawro, Aldo and Townsend. I found they were very biased towards their own analysts in Kevin Kilbane's and Gary Breen in saying they may have earned England caps. They used Trevor Sinclair at the 2002 World Cup as an example of someone Kilbane would have got in ahead of. Sinclair had a little more guile than Killer. I think they got a bit carried away on Breen too. Richard Shaw didn't get any England caps while playing beside Breen for Coventry.

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I assume they mentioned the obvious ones - Roy, Robbie, Duff, Given (thereabouts), Coleman, Folan?

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Originally Posted by Olé Olé

Brooks was player of the tournament at the under 20 Toulon tournament for England so he was on a track to the senior side. He's also been outstanding for Bournemouth this season so I'd say he's as much of a prospect as Rice. Ampadu is younger than Rice but might not be far off. Could

Theyre utterly screwing us on Rice by going after him with senior caps for us. But we would do the same, so it's hard to argue, even if our circumstances are different from their's.

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This is why we always come off 2nd best in these tug of wars. When we look set to lose out and all so called “realists” have to say is “we would do the same”. Do you really think English fans would be that sympathetic if roles we reversed? Not a ****ing chance!

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Originally Posted by Olé Olé

Brooks was player of the tournament at the under 20 Toulon tournament for England so he was on a track to the senior side. He's also been outstanding for Bournemouth this season so I'd say he's as much of a prospect as Rice. Ampadu is younger than Rice but might not be far off. Could he get time in the West Ham side? Very probably. Woodburn has stalled slightly but he burst onto the scene so surely the FA's ears would have *****ed.

Theyre utterly screwing us on Rice by going after him with senior caps for us. But we would do the same, so it's hard to argue, even if our circumstances are different from their's.

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But the question needs to be asked, these Welsh players who are supposedly as good prospects (id rank Brooks just below Rice as a prospect with his age and playing a crucial position, on par with Ampadu)
why does the English FA not even put up much of a fight and actually respect their decision yet with our players when the player clearly says no the FA ago all out to try trick them into thinking they are wanted or just devalue English caps to ensure they don’t play for Ireland. Kind of pathetic really from the FA.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

You could say the same about us and the IFA in fairness

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Could we really? A it’s a completely different situation and B it’s not happened for a good few years.

In our situation is we brought our players through all the way to U21 than the minute any potential is showing the English FA tricks them.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

I assume they mentioned the obvious ones - Roy, Robbie, Duff, Given (thereabouts), Coleman, Folan?

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I think they were refering too players who also qualified for England

Just Folan then.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

I suggesed Ciaran Clark on twitter as the last player than would have played for England. Played at every level up to under 20, and captained the under 20 side. But the Daily Star's Kieran Cunningham (who started the debate) "doubted it very much"
And that was the end of that. Well, according to him anyway.

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You're right, Tets. He was on the path and picked us over them quite plainly. Well spotted.

Kieren Westwood might have made an England squad I reckon.

Also, this reminds me: remember when some aspiring journalist wrote on 42.ie or a similar site that Graham Burke was at risk of defecting to England on basis of the residency rule?! He was at Villa at the time.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

I suggesed Ciaran Clark on twitter as the last player than would have played for England. Played at every level up to under 20, and captained the under 20 side. But the Daily Star's Kieran Cunningham (who started the debate) "doubted it very much"
And that was the end of that. Well, according to him anyway.

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In all probability (and with the benefit of hindsight) Clark would not be good enough to play at competitive senior level with England, but at the time he switched allegiances he was a very promising talent, even if he did not make it on to the English u21 squad.

I don't think it's comparable to Rice who was a nailed on international with Ireland, with the prospect of a skip load of caps, but lured away to the country of his birth. Afaic the rules are fine, I don't agree with binding dual national underage players u17 - u21 before they have grown up and played at senior competitive level. I suspect the 'contract' that Noel King made to players of Rice's ilk, is that they can play with us at underage level and not be bound.

Stephen Hunt: 'Declan Rice loss a big blow, but Martin O'Neill has to work with available players'

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If, as seems increasingly likely, Declan Rice declares for England and goes on to wear the white shirt, it will be massive kick in the teeth for the Republic of Ireland.After last month's games against Wales and Denmark, I was convinced Rice was the missing link in Martin O'Neill's team. Within that team structure and formation, which I really like, the West Ham man could fit into two positions as a central defender or holding midfielder. Players know their team-mates and Rice brings calmness to a side, even at such a young age. It was made for him, along with a fantastic opportunity to go on and win 100 caps and become an Ireland great.

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DECLAN RICE TIMES INTERVIEW
Declan Rice: It is one of the hardest decisions I will have to make
Declan Rice tells Gary Jacob about being released by Chelsea, getting advice from John Terry and why he is no closer to picking Ireland or EnglandSave


Geography or biology? Nature or nurture? Are you English or Irish? Not a straightforward question for anyone born in England of Irish heritage, but for a 19-year-old to make up his mind while thousands of fans await your answer, it is a tough test. It is not one Declan Rice takes lightly.

“Without a doubt it is not an easy decision,” Rice says. “It is one of the hardest decisions I will have to make in my career. Martin [O’Neill] was excellent when he came to my house and Gareth [Southgate] was excellent with me and they both understand the position I am in.

“I said I just need some time as if I am going to be playing for the rest of my career I need to make the right decision, what is best for me and my family. They were both great to be fair. I told both managers that I am just focusing on playing for West Ham at the moment as that was on the back of a good last season. Being 19 and playing as many games as I have, I never thought I would be in a position to make such a hard decision.”

It is easy to see why the countries are fighting for him. Rice was Ireland’s standout player in each of the friendlies from his debut at centre back against Turkey in March to his holding midfield role in the other friendlies with France and the United States. O’Neill has been working on the belief that were Rice to change allegiances, international clearance would still take about six months. While that is true for senior football, Rice could play for the England under-21s immediately should he so choose.

Rice has not been short of advice and opinion. He was told to follow his heart by Manuel Pellegrini, his West Ham manager, and that he could walk in the footsteps of Bobby Moore and become the England captain by David Gold, his club co-chairman. Sean, his father, has his Ireland caps framed and displayed on the walls at home. England took little notice of him when he was young and Ireland invited him at 15 to play in a friendly game against Reading, where he created a goal. He proudly handed his first under-16 cap to Jack and Margaret, his grandparents, who came from Douglas in Cork, and where some family still live. Not long after they died within a fortnight of each other.

Rice sat his maths GCSE on the morning of Jack’s funeral in Kingston-upon-Thames. “I had a car waiting to shoot straight over to Kingston and it was really sad,” he says. “They were great people. My dad’s side of the family are great and we still have cousins in Ireland that we speak to regularly. One of my aunts got in touch recently through Facebook, sending me pictures of my grandad. It was surreal because she ended up on the phone to my dad for ages.”

Rice earns £3,000 a week on his contract which runs until 2021 and West Ham have been keen to reward his rise with a deal with incentives worth a basic £21,000 a week plus a similar sum for a league start and an increase of £5,000 a week in time. There has been an impasse in the talks but he says he wants to commit. “I want to sign for West Ham and I think it is going to happen,” he says. “It is like what the manager said that I am still young and playing every week is what is best for me at the moment and hopefully the contract can come soon.”

Rice had an unusual start to his career as he never played for a serious youth side and earned a trial at Chelsea through his cousin, whose son was in the academy. He was a midfielder who idolised Joe Cole and John Terry — wearing shirts with their names — and when he moved into defence, he studied clips of the Chelsea captain and Sergio Ramos. Terry took a close interest in Chelsea’s youngsters and would watch academy games while he walked his dog. Rice got to know Terry as he lived nearby and they would bump into each other in the street in Kingston.

“John would speak to the parents and take his time to get to know the young players and families, and for a club captain to do that is quality,” he says “I based my whole game on John when I was younger. When I was released by Chelsea he called for 45 minutes and I remember I was sat in my room next to my dad, ‘It was John Terry’. I could not believe it. He handed over all his experience and advice. He said to never stop, always keep working hard and give everything you have. It stayed in my head and look where I am now. Harry Kane and Jamie Vardy were released. No dream is far away. I last met John for a two-hour breakfast with my cousin around six months ago. Sometimes I text him like when he retired and he said ‘Thanks mate, it is your time now’. It is good to have messages like that and it is good to have someone I can speak to.”

Rice would dovetail his footballing education at Chelsea with being a ball boy and was sat mostly behind the goal at Stamford Bridge. “I have seen myself when they show recaps of games in the 2011 and 2012,” he says. “You can see me celebrating goals. It is crazy. I remember when Frank Lampard scored against Aston Villa and when Juan Mata scored a free kick against Manchester United. I used to have them recorded and saved.”

Chelsea played him in a variety of positions and he was tried at centre back in the game when West Ham decided whether to hand him a scholarship. Stephanie, his mother, later told him that she used to cry a lot because her youngest son lived away from the family home in club accommodation in east London.

Rice mostly played in defence last season, when he made costly mistakes against Newcastle United and Arsenal but Pellegrini asked him to play as a holding midfielder on the opening day at Anfield. He struggled and was taken off at the break in a 4-0 defeat and dropped for the following game against Bournemouth. He returned a month later and shone in the 3-1 win away to Everton and sees himself as a midfielder. “I really like midfield,” he says. “You can go forward with the ball a lot more and get more involved. Don’t get me wrong, I love centre half, but I think as a youngster there is not as much pressure on your shoulders as when you are the last line of defence when you are at centre half. I made mistakes last season and people on social media hammer you. I have always been mentally strong and I have always taken it and I have known I can recover. It is like after Liverpool I had to come back, do better and get back in the side.”

This week Rice helped West Ham to launch its ‘Players’ Project’ a scheme to educate and inspire people in the local community. The club have committed up to £10million over three years. Rice has a particular interest as he has friends whose family members have disabilities and as a child he would use the facilities at Dickerage Sports and Community Centre, a youth club and adventure playground which runs schemes for disabled children. “I know people who do amazing things for the community,” he says.

He is close to a half-century of appearances for West Ham and is still relatively unidentifiable. Last month his car was in for a repair and he repeated the route he made as a scholar and hopped on the train to Waterloo, underground to Liverpool Street, another train and finally a 103 bus from Romford to the club’s training ground. “I live too far away to get a cab and it would be aggravation,” he says. “There were fans waiting outside the training ground and they said, ‘Why have you just got off the bus?’ I said ‘My car is in for repair’. They started laughing. I don’t mind doing that. I had my headphones on. Two people spotted me at the bus stop but I put my hood up after that.”