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08/05/2009, 10:03 AM
OwlsFan

And who is to say that Chelsea would have scored from the only incident that probably was a peno - the first handball and I am not still convinced about that? It was ball to hand rather than hand to ball. How did Chelsea lose the Final last year? Oh yes, it was on penos ;)
08/05/2009, 10:13 AM
dfx-

And the semi final the year before ;)

When they didn't kill Liverpool off at Stamford Bridge and paid for it ;)
08/05/2009, 10:43 AM
lionelhutz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Pique handball? Stonewall penalty.

I'd argue this was debatable too. Yes it struck his arm in the box but it was accidental.

The rules state that unless the referee deems the handball to be deliberate, it is not a penalty.
08/05/2009, 10:53 AM
KK77

Quote:

Originally Posted by lionelhutz

I'd argue this was debatable too. Yes it struck his arm in the box but it was accidental.

The rules state that unless the referee deems the handball to be deliberate, it is not a penalty.

I don't like Chelsea at all but lets not be silly about this it was a stonewall peno end of.
08/05/2009, 10:55 AM
jmurphyc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rafa B

I don't like Chelsea at all but lets not be silly about this it was a stonewall peno end of.

In your opinion it was. However, the rules state that if it's either ball to hand, or accidental it's not. So realistically, it's often difficult to call whether a handball incident is a penalty. Just like the one of Wednesday.
08/05/2009, 10:58 AM
KK77

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmurphyc

In your opinion it was. However, the rules state that if it's either ball to hand, or accidental it's not. So realistically, it's often difficult to call whether a handball incident is a penalty. Just like the one of Wednesday.

It was a peno.
08/05/2009, 11:04 AM
jmurphyc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rafa B

It was a peno.

Sorry, you're quite right. You've convinced me.
08/05/2009, 11:05 AM
KK77

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmurphyc

Sorry, you're quite right. You've convinced me.

Well if you needed convincing i don't know:confused::D
08/05/2009, 11:06 AM
osarusan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rafa B

It was a peno.

What are you basing the argument on? Somebody else has mentioned a rule (no idea if it is correct or not) that if it is not hand to ball it is not a penalty.
08/05/2009, 11:08 AM
KK77

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmurphyc

Chelsea as a football club disgraced themselves last night. English clubs and Liverpool were banned from Europe for the deaths of innocent people. That incident didn't involve the club itself, and whilst actual deaths are obviously far worse, death threats shouldn't be taken lightly. I would have no problem with my club being banned from Europe if they acted the way Chelsea did last night.

What the hell has Heysel got to do with this thread?
08/05/2009, 11:09 AM
KK77

[QUOTE=osarusan;1156848]What are you basing the argument on? Somebody else has mentioned a rule (no idea if it is correct or not) that if it is not hand to ball it is not a penalty.[/QUOTE

If you seriously need me to reply to that question you sir are a numpty:p
08/05/2009, 11:14 AM
osarusan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rafa B

If you seriously need me to reply to that question you sir are a numpty:p

I'm a numpty, so go explain.

Your argument seems to be that it's a penalty because..........well.........because..........it just is.
08/05/2009, 11:15 AM
jmurphyc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rafa B

What the hell has Heysel got to do with this thread?

I believe Chelsea should be banned from Europe for the fan's and the club's actions on Wednesday. I made that perfectly clear in previous posts, and in that post itself. Do you automatically do a search for anything that might involve Liverpool?

There's no need to get offended, not everything that refers to Liverpool is criticising them.
08/05/2009, 11:15 AM
KK77

Quote:

Originally Posted by osarusan

I'm a numpty, so go explain.

Your argument seems to be that it's a penalty because..........well.........because..........it just is.

Go on have a guess?:D
08/05/2009, 11:28 AM
NeilMcD

Quote:

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

And who is to say that Chelsea would have scored from the only incident that probably was a peno - the first handball and I am not still convinced about that? It was ball to hand rather than hand to ball. How did Chelsea lose the Final last year? Oh yes, it was on penos ;)

That is not a rule of football though. This hand to ball or ball to hand is not mentioned in the rule book.
08/05/2009, 5:03 PM
OwlsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

That is not a rule of football though. This hand to ball or ball to hand is not mentioned in the rule book.

http://www.fifa.com/newscentre/news/newsid=71939.html

It is important in football for the players - and in an ideal world, the fans too - at least to understand the most basic rules. But the crazy thing is that so many popular beliefs about the rules have survived so long, even without any basis in fact, that they have come to assume the force of law in many people's opinion. Let's look at a few :

Voluntary and involuntary handball :

The referee has just one thing to consider in taking his necessarily quick decision in a handball situation : was it intentional or not? He has to decide whether the ball went to the hand, maybe on the rebound, or the hand to the ball. He should not intervene if the ball goes to hand, nor if the player is clearly protecting himself rather than trying to take advantage of the situation.

Still a definite peno Rafa?
08/05/2009, 6:13 PM
Stuttgart88

Quote:

Originally Posted by lionelhutz

I'd argue this was debatable too. Yes it struck his arm in the box but it was accidental.

The rules state that unless the referee deems the handball to be deliberate, it is not a penalty.

I watched it again and I'd say you're right - he did not move his hand towards the ball - his hand was in the same place before it was kicked.

tbh I'd be livid if it wasn't given if it happened against Ireland though. It just looked like the type of handball that is always penalised.
09/05/2009, 10:36 AM
osarusan

Quote:

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

The referee has just one thing to consider in taking his necessarily quick decision in a handball situation : was it intentional or not? He has to decide whether the ball went to the hand, maybe on the rebound, or the hand to the ball. He should not intervene if the ball goes to hand, nor if the player is clearly protecting himself rather than trying to take advantage of the situation.[/I]

I think that "ball to hand / hand to ball" is a flawed simplification of the issue of whether a handball was intentional or not.

Let's take a scenario where a defender stands on the goalline with his arms stretched up grabbing the crossbar. The ball is headed onto his arms by an attacker, and there is no question that the ball would have crossed the line had it not hit his arm. However, the defender has not moved his arms in any way to block the ball. Is this a penalty?

Is moving your hand into the path of the ball to block it different from putting your arms in a position where they will likely block a ball that you wouldn't otherwise block?
09/05/2009, 11:48 AM
sligo23

I taught the rule was that if it was intentional or the team was gaining an advantage from it:confused:
09/05/2009, 1:09 PM
jmurphyc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

tbh I'd be livid if it wasn't given if it happened against Ireland though. It just looked like the type of handball that is always penalised.

I agree. I would have been so p*ssed if the referee in the Georgia game hadn't made the right call for the handball penalty decision. :p

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